Notch Is Refusing To Certify Minecraft For Windows 8

And the (totally righteous) Windows 8 bashing continues. It seems like no-one is a fan of Microsoft's new OS, particularly game developers. Markus 'Notch' Persson is no different, and he's not shy about shouting his views from the digital rooftop that is twitter.

"Got an email from microsoft," began Notch's tweet, "wanting to help "certify" minecraft for win 8. I told them to stop trying to ruin the pc as an open platform."

Man, why don't you tell them how you really feel.

"I'd rather have minecraft not run on win 8 at all than to play along," he continued in a later tweet. "Maybe we can convince a few people not to switch to win 8 that way..."

First Gabe, now Notch. That's two gargantuan PC heavyweights making some pretty filthy noise about Windows 8. It's not looking good.


    Lol. Does anyone here have windows 8? Is it really that bad?
    I mean I heard it was made specifically for those windows tab-pads

      It's essentially if you took Windows Phone 7, threw it onto a desktop with a few changes and expected everyone to be happy about their PC becoming a horribly mutated hybrid of a desktop and a tablet.
      I used the Win8 Release Preview and was not impressed in the slightest...definitely up to the standards that Windows 7 set.

        Mike, that's complete BS. Describing W8 as just "WP7 on a desktop" is like describing Windows 7 as just "A pared down file explorer on a desktop". If the only feature of the OS you use is the start menu, you're doing something very wrong.

        Pygmy, take Windows 7, make the start menu open up full screen, and display animated square tiles rather than a static folder structure.

        Then make the entire OS run faster, boot faster, and add extra features like native ISO/VHD mounting, file transfer management, HyperV virtualisation, etc.

        And that's Windows 8.

        The idea behind the changes in Windows 8 is that Keyboard/Mouse are no longer the only first-class citizens as far as input goes. It's been designed to work equally well with Mouse+Keyboard as with touch, and no doubt Kinect-style input as well. There are definitely rough edges that need smoothing (like a more touch-friendly file explorer) but it's not the UX abortion people keep whining about.

          Okay, maybe I was exaggerating, but I still think the GUI will be too radical for your average Joe to take up. The thing with Win7/Vista is that it wasn't a radical shift in GUI - yes, you have the icons on the taskbar now instead of windows, but not such a dramatic shift to having the Start Menu display full-screen. I've heard people liking the OS and i've heard people despising the OS, but in my opinion it's not to my taste. It just seems counter-intuitive to those who want to just use keyboard/mouse only rather than touch screens or tablets...though, we'll see what the actual retail release is like.

            I reckon this is the "New Facebook layout" comic The Oatmeal did:

            In two months nobody is going to remember the outrage caused by the new Win8 UI

            (I was pissed that there is no start menu "option", but this new UI will neatly replace the various "quick launcher" apps I have installed like Orbit or Radian

            Actually I pretty much agree word for word.. i love the hybrid IDEA, but the implementation is messy and useless, at least from a laptop user standpoint.

            I completely agree, it's more the apps that has me. For instance there's a photo viewing app that pulls the pictures from your file system to display inside the app... Call me old fashion but if I want to look at my pictures I'll just pull 'em up from the file browser thanks.

            The advancement of tablet tech is one thing and in its way great, but if I wanted a tablet I'd have bought a tablet not a high speed rig.

          Why the hell would you want the start menu to open up full screen? And with the amount of stuff you have installed, making them tiles instead of a folder system is incredibly ineffecient. The reason PC is successful is because you can use it for work AND games, but with Windows 8 it sucks megaballs at both.

            wtf are you talking about? Windows 8 plays game marginally BETTER than Win7 due to better use of resources. I know this because unlike 90% of the people commenting here, I have been using Win8 sinces its first public BETA release.
            Make no mistake - Windows 8 is an all-around better OS than Win7. Anyone who says otherwise is just playing into the hands of vocal idiots like Notch.

              And when you open the start menu it takes fullscreen away from what ever game you have playing in fullscreen window. NO, win8 is not better.

                And how is that different to opening the start menu when in a full screen game in Windows 7?

                  It's not.
                  That's the correct answer.
                  People are just falling for fearmongering by the fat game makers worried about losing moolah from the appearance of the windows store.

              Um... I Definately dissagree... Its kinda late.. but, I decided to download a well known game called minecraft, nowthe computer i was using was a hp pavilion windows 8 with AMD Radeon 7300 Series Graphics... The majjor BAD thing was it came with NO tower... For info.... i used to have a laptop with the same specs.. 4 gb memory, and 500 gb space, it was a dells windows 7... it ran minecraft at its best... 30-40 fps. when i used minecraft on my windows 8 computer, which was basicly a laptop which i couldnt take anywhere... ran minecraft at 5 fps LOWEST SETTINGS POSSIBLE... it was a brand new computer too... i put the power settings on high performance, gave as much space as u could to java (what minecraft runs on) and it still stayed in the 10-13 fps region... So yeah, w8 is one of the worst OS' for gaming....

            Yeah, I have to question the point of a "full screen start button", the only time I open that is to use the command line tbh. I have all my programs sitting down the bottom pinned to the taskbar, it's so much easier (thank you for the idea, OSX)

              I've had my most-used apps included in the quicklaunch bar since Windows 98. Reality Distortion Field strikes again...

          those are the good, but its not in the right areas, and it is closing the desktop, and it is intruding, and it is requiring developers to make kid-friendly just for the soon-to-be sellout that you cant get rid of metro interface

          look, rambling aside, microsoft has created a semi-intrusive and distracting interface to sell to their next customers, it provides o.k. features at the expense of adding developer lock-ins, and if its important to you, more key clicks to the old (and still 1/4 free) interface

          the distraction is whats standing in front of you, this is quite literally a marketing tactic to say "hey, we look like apple", and it also adds a few defining characteristics past linux, which has caught up huge (benchmarks have started to show linux faster on all fronts lately), and, well its distracting, enough to get people to buy before they know theres an alternative

      No, it isn't as bad as a few of the more troll worthy news pieces claim it to be. Windows 8 is different, let us get that straight. It may not be for everyone, but it does work, and it works damn well.

      The OS is tablet friendly, but still functions just like Windows 7 bar no windows start menu button. You press the windows key and you'll be shown the start menu page, start typing and it will search as if you did so on Windows 7. I personally prefer Windows 8 now after using it for a few months, because it offers flexibility and usability at a much greater perspective.

      When I turn my computer on, I want to have the programs I use the msot, at my finger tips. With Windows 8, that is what is delivered. The ability to pin programs to the start menu works flawlessly, so that I can run GW2, TS and Steam all at the click of a button.

      You still have Windows Explorer (albeit at a much better interface), you still have control panel, you still have the ability to install anything you want, you still have an open platform. People hate new technology, its a given, but Windows 8 is by far the better of the new GUI windows. Also alt-tabbing works just as normal with these "apps", and also ALT-F4ing works just the same, closing anythingthat is open.

        This comment has been deemed inappropriate and has been deleted.

      I personally run Minecraft (both server for my mates and client) on my Win8 PC and it works just fine. Love Notch's work and respect to he and Gabe, but their heads are way up their arses if they think anybody gives two shits about their doomsday predictions.

      Everything that runs on Win7 runs on Win8. As a casual user and tech enthusiast I've not seen a single exception and I'm using the Consumer Preview (i.e. not even the more recent Release Preview). I mostly use Desktop mode and if it weren't for the Start screen, Notifications and a couple of other UI tweaks - and the fact that it's frakin' fast - you'd never know I was using a Win8 PC.

      Gabe and Notch have to protect their profits, I get that. But their accusations and predictions of "ruination for the PC as a gaming platform" are pure FUD.

        It's doomsday for them because m$ might close garden windows. Which kills steam slowly as people migrate to windows 8. And if other experiences are anything to go by devs could lose independence and revenue in fees to m$.

          First off, did everyone see what he did there? He replaced the S in MS with a dollar sign. Because MS like to make money, unlike every other company is the history of mankind. Well done with that.

          Second, MS "might" close garden windows? Because they somehow were unable to before? If they wanted to, at any point MS could have forced an update out through Windows Update that secretly made every program require a digital certificate from MS.

          They haven't done this in the past, and won't do it in the future, because it would be a massive loss for them. Almost all people programming end-user software will tell you the best development experience is on Windows, myself included, and if they changed that by adding in mandatory certification or whatever, there goes MS's bread and butter as developers walk out.

      I have windows 8, dual booting with windows 7. If you game then stay away from windows 8. As for Minecraft on 8, Its got major lag no matter how much ram or cpu you have. Even running in Java 64 bit, with Minecraft set to use 4gb of ram, I still lagged. If your a casual computer user then Windows 8 is a great OS.

      Heres a list of programs and games I have tried on windows 8

      Minecraft - Major Lag
      K-Lite Codec - works but had to reinstall about 20 times
      Flashplayer - works but crashes all the time
      Firefox - Works untill Flashplayer locks it up
      Asus laptop hotkeys
      Power 4 gear Hybrid- Works but just barley, if you change modes it takes a while for windows 8 to catch up
      Zone Alarm - Works but make sure everything microsoft, computer protection is turned off

      I will say this for windows 8, If you use the Windows 7 boot manager, the boot times are really fast. Multitasking is make easier, and the new GUI is actually really cool. I think that as time goes it will become better than Windows 7. Its just going to take updates, just like every other operating system.

        All the games I have tried run faster on win 8 for me since upgrading. And I have old hardware.

    I'm using it every day, it's really not that bad, and these guys are just looking for headlines.

    The only "closed" bit is certification for the App Store, like every other app store on the planet. You don't even have to make it a WinRT app, you can certify good old desktop apps too, but then you provide a link to the download yourself, MS don't host it, and obviously, it won't run on ARM.

    I'd offer a dissenting view: Notch is simply a loud-mouth flavour of the month who likes to jump on bandwagons and "stick it to the man".

    What an absolute jerk.

      Seriously - all certification does is ensure that an application can install, function, and be uninstalled cleanly.

      Microsoft are *not* walling out people who aren't certified, but they are tryng to make sure as many applications as possible work smoothly with W8.

      Also, this is a bit rich coming from someone who developed an iOS app version of Minecraft.

      Why does no-one actually call Notch on his bullshit?

        Notch is the hero of the internet (I don't agree but hey, that's how it is) and the internet is essentially a hive mind of collective assholes.
        Most people I've encountered online are anti-big corporations and when someone indie like Notch hits it big it gives them hope. What they fail to realise is that big corporations power them. They are the reason they have their computer (in most cases) and without them the internet would probably die off quite quickly.
        Short answer: Notch is an asshole, but people online are assholes too. It's like a big asshole convention

          And Big Corps aren't assholes?

            They are, but when they make an asshole statement it's met with "What assholes" and when they make a cool, innovative statement (albeit rarely) it's still met with "What assholes"
            The point is that Notch is just a douchebag who is getting more and more ingrained in the internet as the "fuck the system" dude regardless of what the system is trying to do for everyone.

            Disagree all you want but it's not a BAD thing the certify the apps. It's a little strange and could be handled better, but the idea is the protect the user

          I think that's a gross over-simpli-fuckin-ficaton.

          I work almost exclusively with MS products (BizTalk, SharePoint, Visual Studio ALM/TFS/Test Manager... and of course Office). I actually LIKE Microsoft products.

          I do NOT like what they are doing with Windows 8. The argument that Notch and Gabe are making isn't that they don't like the look of Windows 8. The thing, and this escapes most people because frankly they are stupid and Gabe and Notch, for all their faults, are visionaries and see this - Microsoft is heading down the path of wanting to further monetize their user base. They are building a Microsoft App Store.

          Think about this people - Microsoft App Store.

          Windows 8 is the first shot across the bow of the current "open platform" that is Windows. Make no bones about it, if Apple can get away with skimming money off of every application that runs on the ipad/iphone, then you damn well bet Microsoft wants a piece of that action too.

          The rest of you arguing about UI's and tiles and metro and what not are fucking morons. You are literally missing the point of what these guys are complaining about.

            Except it's nothing like a closed system like on the iphone/ipad.
            It's an open system, with a store as well, this store will probably make it much more user friendly for normal people to find applications or games etc.

      Yeah ummm has anybody else noticed that both not notch and gabe are the equivalent of pc hipsters anybody that has used win 8 knows its basically win 7 with an OPTIONAL "metro" start menu otherwise it's virtually the same, seriously people need to wake up and realize there is more important things to worry about in life than an operating system, if you don't like it get over it move on and don't buy it...

        Metro is not optional. The proper start menu can be restored with a registry edit, but the user must still go through metro to reach the "desktop app".

      I was wondering about this. Because it certainly is fashionable to pick on Windows 8. It's a guaranteed way to gain flocks of adoring sheep hanging on your every rant.

    This guy needs to pull his freaking head in. His inflated ego is going to his head.

    What's REALLY going to kill Windows 8 is all these developers refusing to support it.

    That just means Minecraft won't be available on the Win 8 App Store, not that it won't run in Win 8. As long as Windows can run Java, Minecraft will run on it. In fact he probably refuses to put it on the App Store because I'm not sure that Java apps are allowed on there, think it has to be managed code i.e. C#

      I thought Java was managed though?

        Yeah Java is managed, but isnt supported for store apps

        you have a choice of C#/VB with XAML (.net side of things)
        Javascript, HTML5, CSS3 (web side of things)
        C++ (native side of things)

        I don't know if these can be mixed and matched or not

          If you're developing for Windows RT (the ARM tablets) I think C++ isn't allowed either, but I may be wrong on that.

          It's actually fairly easy to mix and match those. It's fairly easy to access native libraries from .NET and vice-versa. As for HTML5/CSS3/JS, I don't know yet, I have no plans to do anything other than web development in that, and the closest you get to "mixing and matching" is ASP.NET on a web server.

          It's actually fairly easy to mix and match those. It's fairly easy to access native libraries from .NET and vice-versa. As for HTML5/CSS3/JS, I don't know yet, I have no plans to do anything other than web development in that, and the closest you get to "mixing and matching" is ASP.NET on a web server.

    Seems hypocritical to me to be complaining about Win8 certification when Minecraft is available on the xbox.

    I'd just like to point out, as a software developer AND the resident tech-guy among my family and friends, having a walled garden AS AN OPTION is fantastic. Now I can just tell my less tech-savvy friends/family to get apps only from the app store if they want to be sure of being safe and virus free.

    Regular desktop development remains, and I will surely use it, but for those who aren't good at figuring out what is / isn't suspicious, or even from where to find a program to do what they need, this is a great addition.

      I agree with this completely - A walled Garden for some people is a massive blessing. Lke it or not it is one of the main reason the IOS platforms are so successful.

      Personally I don't want to be limited to a MS run marketplace, but I also take responsibility for the ongoing maintenance of my computer - not all people are capable of that (and thank god too or I'd be out of a job...:))

    I've lost a lot of respect for notch recently.

    I really hope that if I ever make a hit game and make tons of money that I don't turn into an egotistical jerk like him.

    Does anyone really consider this guy to be an authority on this stuff?

      Notch an authority on computers.. No that's like saying Ikea are the authority on furniture


        Because your analogy doesn't really make sense any other way.

    The more developers refuse to accept the new paradigm, the more the games market is going to fall behind. Like it or not, Windows 8 will be on every new computer sold within a few months and on a large portion of existing ones soon after that. Rather than than just refusing to play like the hipster, self-righteous anarchists they are, people like Newell and Persson need to work *with* MS to try and make Win 8 as game friendly in the future as possible.

    Their issue is not the "usability" of Windows 8 - they're concerned because Microsoft is attempting to create a "walled garden" marketplace. Companies who sell on the platform through their own conduits are very threatened by this as it seriously erodes their penetration into the platform.

    Also keep in mind that Notch has also been very critical (and rightly so) of the certification process on the Xbox. He probably has very legitimate concerns as to the pain involved in Windows 8 certification.

    As far as Windows 8 is to use - I've been using it for quite a while now (pre-release all the way through to RTM) and my personal option is that it's totally fine. Not really that much of a change.

      Oops - many people beat me to the punch :)

      Stu, what people don't understand is that just because you don't certify your software doesn't mean your software wont run on Windows 8. It just means it wont be distributed through the Microsoft App Store and work with Metro to its fullest extent, which also means it wont be distributed to Windows RT. Mojang can still sell Minecraft the way they have been and it will still work perfectly find with Windows 8.

      My big issue is calling it a Windows 8 failure, Windows 8 and the Microsoft App store are not one and the same. You don't have to use the app store if you don't wish to.

    Seems that there is not enough information to form an opinion. People seem confused over what exactly certification for Win8 means and why game developers don't want to do it.

      Absolutely true, but that's never stopped people having options before... :)

    I have a feeling we'll all be running Linux in the next 5 years.

    Windows 8 is good.

    Sure is angry in here.
    Just from the article it sounds like Gabe and Notch don't want the pc to become Microsofts other console. Fair enough if you ask me, PC's openness in hardware and software platform is it's best feature compared to consoles and I would also hate to see the whole genre of PC gaming bastardised into that 'Games for Windows' bullshit I've been saddled with one to many times. I don't even care if it turns out to be the best service ever, just fuck off and let me play my games how I want.

    Notch doesn't want Microsoft to take 20% of his revenue ;)

    I use Windows 8 Pro and proud

    Metro is clever how it deals with installing and uninstalling programs. Install the app by clicking install from the store. Right click the app and click uninstall which will do it silently.

    This bridges the gap for old people who hate clicking next and reading . Yeah yeah they're afraid of change but at least its simplified.

    This is nothing that can't be sorted out by a Quake 3 match.

    Any business that distributes games via their own distribution platform is essentially going to have a major loss in business is the main issue from what I can tell because they are being forced to deliver software through Win 8's 'App Store' rather than their own platform (eg Steam, Origin)

    Whilst I can see how this would drastically affect Steam and Origin and the way that they deliver content, i am m not sure why Notch would be turning his nose when he doesn't run a content delivery service of his own? Perhaps it is more painful to develop for Windows 8 than we realise?

    Wouldn't mind hearing from some actual programmers who are also facing a business requirement to start developing for Win 8 to understand what it is from a code level that makes it so difficult or if it is just content deliverers now facing the need to adapt.

      Steam and Origin are still going to exist on Windows 8. It's not like Microsoft is killing standard executables.
      If you want to deliver products to Windows RT then you need to go through their store but it's not like this was an existing option that has been removed.

        This kind of thing is them testing the waters to see what they can get away with. They are also trying hard to copy Apple.

        I use OSX, Windows and Linux for my work and they are adding the main things I hate about OSX into Windows 8.

        Many people talk about how overall Windows 8 has way more features and is way better but the full screen start menu for me is a massive step back.

        If I were a master chef describing all the ingredients in a meal I had just prepared for you and I said "Also someone shit in it" would you be like "Well I guess everything else is good so its ok" or would you think "Someone has shit in my food"?

          Apple are far more likely to go the full walled garden route in OSX than Microsoft are to go that way with Windows. There's so many organizations that are running custom or internal software on legacy versions that they'd never want to alienate by requiring all applications come through the App Store.

    Whys this guy always carry on as if he split the atom it's exhausting listening to him.

    Working in the I.T. Department with a colleague that is MCP you kind of get sick of hearing 'MS is so awesome' or something along those lines especially when these MS Fan boys just continuously bash other operating systems without giving them a thorough run in first.

    If more people used alternatives to MS then they would have to do a better job at bringing back their customers and build an actually decent kernel and ui. Sorry but if you don't realise your hardware is better utilised by anything other then MS then you shouldn't be using a computer in the first place! If you do realise this but continue to use MS then don't deny that Windows 8 is a failure.

      ... Hit up some respectable benchmarking sites, and show me a comparison of Windows 7 vs any other user-friendly Linux distribution (Ubuntu, Mint, etc), or Mac OS X, where Windows 7 is even moderately worse across most fields.

    Windows 8 is a great OS it's just that people are so stupid they can't work out the Windows key on the keyboard switches from desktop to metro and the START button was moved from the desktop and changed to Open All Apps.

    Notch annoys the fuck out of me.
    Yay you made a popular game, good for you.
    His 'reason' are ridiculous. Microsoft only want to certify the game so it will run properly in the New Windows UI (Formally metro). This doesn't mean Minecraft or any other game wont work on Windows 8. I've been running W8 for better half of a year, now on the final RTM version. All my games run great, no worse than on Windows 7.

    Also Mark,
    Gabe's comments about Windows 8 were taken greatly out of context, I really wish people would stop using that as a sign of failure against Windows 8. When most devs speak out about Windows 8, its against the Microsoft Store, not Windows 8. Microsoft will continue to allow developers to write their applications as they have been, they just wont look pretty and work with all the new Metro stuff. So unless these guys want to run their software on the Windows RT (arm based) version, they really have no reason to whinge.

    Nice way for Allure media to be "unbiased" - have MS as a paid up advertiser, post a small article that doesn't bash Win8 but expresses someone else's opinion and then get the Microsoft shills in to flood the comments with how good Win8 is. Result - Win8 comes out on top and Allure are clean. Well played.

      Notchs opinion is rubbish though, his reasoning arent applicable. App stores are bad for open source/open environments, but Windows 8 isn't an App store, the Microsoft App store is an app store. As even you can see Kato, I called them different things. Don't go calling everyone who responds to a negative comment a shill just because they disagree with the person who is disagreeing with them, especially when some of the shills have a point.....

      You're obviously a shill for Notch, paid to defend Minecraft and Mojang.

    Minecraft is probably the shittiest piece of coding that exist in modern games. Microsoft want to introduce standards into their new OS for the sake of growth, and assholes like Notch are trying to hold it back.

    Note: I said the coding was crap, not the game itself.

    I laugh at the implication Notch is anywhere near the heavyweight Gabe is. And that's not just a fat joke.
    Gabe and Valve are a league of their own. All Notch did was be the face of a team who made one popular game.

      agreed, notch seems to think he speaks for the internet these days, but minecraft is nothing compared to the pure awesome that is steam and (hint) more then one of the awesome games that valves has put out

    Minecraft could use another round of "certification" on the Xbox, the thing crashes constantly.

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