Talk Amongst Yourselves

This is where Kotaku readers go to talk about the stuff we're not already posting about. Think of it as the official unofficial Kotaku community forum.


    I beat Borderlands 2 last night, good ending. I wrote this up about an hour before I did:

      If you haven't done so already, go back and listen to the post-story convo between the original Vault Hunters in Sanctuary.

      Jack is a great antagonist because he's as hilarious as he is an evil jerk.

    My poor wife had a killer migraine last night, which means that I also got maybe an hour's sleep. I'm pretty much sleep-walking through my day today, daydreaming about Pandas and Pandora.

    WHOOOAAA everythings... different :O

    Also yes I guess you guys have talked about this already but whatever

      Um... are we gonna have that fat green bar drop down every time we comment? Can we edit prefences somewhere or something?

        I was wondering if it would continue to bother me like it was when I first started using the new layout, but I got used to it pretty quick.

        Downgrade to IE7 and you won't get one at all :P

          Hahaha! ORRRR I could poke my eyes with hot coals. I could do that instead.

        Don't tell Ben, he might readjust the whole design again just to make it all fit!


      Oct 28. Movieworld. Sheet just got real.

    If you missed my reply you can still donate to the LGM tally here:


      Heya! I actually did miss it but sent a small donation just then.

      Great job again guys :D

    Argh why is my sense of time always out of sync? Last week I was a day ahead, this week I"m a day behind because of the Public Holiday that didn't mean anything to me. Wednesday, Wednesday. Today is Wednesday, yesterday was Tuesday. Get with it Nova

      Behind behind a day is much better than being a day ahead or even on time.
      It makes the week seem like it's going all the more quicker.

    Craft day is going okay. My daughter's happily weaving away, but my son is making me do everything on his dinosaur. Not the plan! It's banana break time now so I can finally sit back and relax for a few minutes.

      My mother in law is dropping the kids back to me soon. First day off in a loooong time since I had the kids by myself. I was going to bust out the plaster statues and the paints for them but that may lead to my wife choking me out when she gets back.

      What species of dinosaur is it? Tyrannosaurus, Triceratops, Stegosaurus, some sort of Sauropod?

        Based on the spines, I'd guess a stegasaurus-y dinosaur.

      My mum used to have craft days when I was really little, probably around your sons age. Some of the fondest, strongest memories I have of my early years. You're an awesome mum, Strange!

      Last edited 03/10/12 11:06 am

      Banana break? I thought you had a particular disdain towards bananas.

        I can't stand them, but my kids love them. I leave the room when they eat them so I don't have to smell them.

    *rubs eyes, looks at blinding sunlight* 11am? That wasn't in the sleep in plan. :S

      :( whenever I'm really tired and plan to sleep in I just wake up at 7am anyway. UGH!

        I don't actually like sleeping in. Ruins my sleeping pattern and I have even more trouble falling to sleep than I usually do. :'(

      I only slept from like, 6 am until 10:30.

      I blame Game Dev Story... Also, it's hilarious being 2 years behind everyone else with this game.

    So what's everyone think of the new Steam Software stuff?
    I think I might give the free version of GameMaker Studio a spin.

      So I need someone to explain things to me. Valve's been making noise about Windows 8 apps needing code signing to run as a metro app/on their app store. Essentially, they have to submit their programs to MS so they can get certified, then put on their marketplace. And I'd assume MS takes a cut.

      Isn't that what Valve is doing? Games or software now, doesn't matter, you would surely need to submit your product to them, then they put it on steam, who take a cut?

      This is all I understand of the situation, can someone clarify?

        Yeah I'm sure Valve make a cut.... What's your point? Stores, distributors, importers, and everyone else in the chain makes a cut from the retail side.

          I think it's the walled garden thing. (Valve seem much more open than other places, but it has the potential to do the same thing.)

            Sort of. Not really. Compare how hard it is to get on steam to how hard it is to get on windows phone 7 (it isn't, just look at all the rubbish apps available for it). From what I can tell, getting onto the windows app store will be just like getting onto the WP appstore.
            The problem that everyone's been kicking a stink up about is that because Microsoft's added an optional store, it supposedly means that one day in the future they're going to just going to make all desktop programs from the last ~20 years (going on the assumption that they do this in 10 years time) stop working. Which is a ridiculous thing to think. Plus I think Microsoft would come under a lot of legal pressure if they tried pulling something like that.
            Also, I don't hear people talking about the same thing with Apple. They've got an appstore, and they don't allow non-certified apps to run by default, although you can change that in the settings. Although I suppose you don't hear about it because it's Apple and people sorta expect it, plus OSX has a much smaller market share. Which is why MS isn't likely going to make their OS closed. Their market share is too huge to get away with a fundamental shift in the way the OS works like Apple would be able to.

          His point is that, so far as he can tell, Valve are making a fuss about Microsoft doing exactly the same thing.

            The thing is that valve take a cut as a distributor actually selling the product and getting the money for it.
            MS will take a cut for the fact you're using their OS? Not really any value being added to that process.

              Good luck selling only to Linux and Mac users.

                Exactly. Will they lock it down and hold a whole OS install base hostage until they get their cut?

              In this case though, they're providing an app store. So far as I can tell, the process is exactly the same if you don't care about Metro/their app store, but if you want one, you have to deal with the other. I'll admit, I'm as hazy as Notty on the details, but they are still providing a service for the cut they take.

              Yeah, Blaghs and Freeze get my point, aren't they being a bit hypocritical?

              @Beavwa From what I understand, apps need to be certified for the Windows marketplace or whatever they call it, but not necessarily to run on Windows 8 in general. (If it's the latter, then yeah, that's seriously f***ed. But they wouldn't be that stupid. Right?) So essentially, MS are just making their own Distribution service, just like steam. Unless I'm horribly confused. Which I am.

                Your point is correct and all signs are pointing to it just being for a distribution service.
                Playing devil's advocate on the more hysterical fears that come with integrating that distribution platform in the OS - it gives them the ability to wall it off if they're that stupid.
                But this could also come back to the whole antitrust thing with IE being packaged with windows years ago - if it's there by default, many users won't go any further for anything else.

                  So, so far as anyone can tell, everyone is running on the assumption that Microsoft will be arses about it?

                  I... Okay, yeah. I can see why it's a problem.

                  This is very true, and I understand why people don't like it (I'm not too fond of it either). I just find it quite hypocritical that Valve are condemning them for not being open when Steam is a closed platform. Granted it's quite open and they make good stuff and improvements, but it's still a closed platform.

                  Well the WIn8 RT (ARM) platform *is* locked down to app store only, and there's all sorts of noise from Google and Mozilla about not being able to put their web browsers in there, so we'll see how that turns out.

                  (Personally I'll be very upset if MS get into hot water with WinRT being locked down, when WinRT is basically to Windows what iOS is to OSX, and Apple actually do have a virtual monopoly in the tablet space)

                Win 8 Marketplace is even more restrictive than that, it's metro apps only - you're still going to need to use something like Steam for normal games.

                  Just replying to your above comment Neg,
                  Google and Mozilla are complaining that Microsoft will have access to certain APIs for the Metro IE version that they wont have access to. They can and will have Metro versions of their browsers but unless something has changed/ changes they will be limited slightly in what they can/can't do. It is all very similar to Apply allowing other browsers on iOS but not to have access to some of the OS level functions, except Microsoft will let you change your default browser.

                  They will get dragged through the coals over it, especially in the EU, the European Union has some kind of hard on for slapping Microsoft. In my books, with WindowsRT, Microsoft should be allowed the same 'freedoms' that Apple has with iOS, especially considering WindowsRT has a 0% market share (as of today), so the courts really can't slap Microsoft and call them anti-competitive as they don't have a monopoly to be competitive with, if anything, Apple should be slapped for not allowing the default browser in iOS to be changed.

                  Windows Marketplace is just the method for creating/distributing apps to Microsoft devices, whether it be Windows RT, Windows 8, Windows Phone 8. The idea is you build your app using WinRT, and when you compile it, your create 3 different versions, one for each OS. Then your app is a certified Microsoft Windows application, and can be purchased/installed from the Windows store. This doesn't mean you can't create your app in C++, compile it and distribute it through your website or Steam etc, you can by all means, it just means it wont be in the Windows Marketplace Store, and wont be able to have full Metro functionality, you will still get an icon, but it wont be a live tile full screen Metro app, it will just be a standard desktop app. Also means you will have to write seperate code to run on Windows Phone 8 and Windows RT, and to get onto Windows RT (as stated above) you need to go through the Windows Marketplace.

                  Its not that confusing, I don't understand why people are rallying against it. Devs should be use to the app store model by now, Apple have been using it for 4/5 years now, not to mention Steam and other app stores. If you don't agree with their terms of service, then don't be in the marketplace.

          I think he's saying that Valve is whining about having to jump through the same hoops they make people jump through and wants to know if that is correct.

        Talking conspiracy / paranoia levels of fear, the difference is MS could lock down win 8 so that you can only use things from their store. Valve can't stop you using something just because it isn't on steam.
        Not that they're going to do that.

          Locking Windows to App Store apps would be utterly nutty. So much crazy old legacy software wouldn't run any more, no one would upgrade and they'd lose all the business customers.

        And that's one of the main reasons people are assuming for why Gabe denounced Windows 8. They're looking like they'll end up in direct competition.

        Yes it's exactly what Valve are doing and it's why they've been rocking the boat to try and scuttle the Windows 8 App Store.

    Why did Sarah fall off the swing?

    She had no arms.

    Knock knock.

    Who's there?

    Not Sarah.

      Why can't Freddie ride a bicycle?

      He's a goldfish.

        What's brown and sticky?

        A stick.

          A man walks into a bar.

          He says 'Ow.'

            What did John the Farmer say when he saw his tractor on his roof?

            "Why is my tractor on the roof?"

              There were two muffins baking in the oven. One said "Blimey, it's hot in here."
              The other said, "HOLY SHIT A TALKING MUFFIN!"

                Knock knock
                Who's there?
                Annie who?
                Anyone you like.

                Knock knock
                Who's there?
                ... wait, I forgot what I was doing.

                Two fish are in a tank. One turns to the other and says "man the turret, I'll drive!"

                  Two hats are hanging on a rack. One says to the other "You stay here, I'll go on ahead".

                  Why did the mushroom go to the party?

                  Because he was a fun guy.

                  Chrono Cross had a character who was a mushroom head.
                  His name was Funguy, IIRC.

    Holy crap guys guys

    When i was Younger i was very much into the idea of making my own game. A friend showed me gamemaker 7 and i was pretty much instantly hooked i spent pretty much half of grade 10 playing around with stuff and i never really made a game. My friend and i were both pretty into this so we gave ourselves a challenge and saw what we could make given a week of the holidays. His game turned out pretty incredible he had AI and realisic movement and i was thoroughly impressed.

    My game on the other hand was dreadful, SO i now present to you in all of its non glory my demo of my game Jumping Jeep (formerly known as Jeep Jungle) Play the demo and laugh at how completely horrible it is. Even now i cant believe exactly how bad it is. The funny part is that even this little bit of game was pretty tricky for younger me to make. It takes alot of playing around with stuff to get it the way you want it. But the graphical interface of gamemaker makes it so much easier. Download the zip and check it out.

      Also if any of you question exactly why the jeep can jump my answer is shut up.
      My mum , sister and friend all asked the same question.

        LOWRIDERS. That's all the answer you need. Awesome feature for a jeep to have, by the way. You be sure to tell all the important people in your life to stfu.

        Last edited 03/10/12 11:35 am

      Oh man, the only thing I ever made in Game Maker was a game called Baby Fighter as a joke. I haven't seen your game, but I doubt it's any worse than Baby Fighter. I'll see if I can find it when I get home.

        I don't know what this game is, but it already sounds amazing!

    Has anyone had an experience with painting and modifying action figures? My first project may be a bit ambitious, but I'm giving it a crack anyway. Y'know that red and silver Claptrap from the first Borderlands with all the spikes, who calls the Vault hunters fleshy meatbags?

    Yeah, I'm making him. Or at least an amateur approximation of him. Anyone who's done any customising or model painting and has any tips would be greatly appreciated!

      I know nothing about it, but I can offer some advice I'm sure you should follow.

      Don't mess it up. :P

      dont get into a paint fight with your wife. It sounds fun but paint in the eye is not sexy. :P

      Chuloopa does the whole Warhammer 40k thing, maybe he's painted and modified 'em from time-to-time!

      I used to modify my 40k stuff. There was this plasticine type stuff you could get thy would go as hard as the models plastic. Green something or other. But it works really well. I wish I could remember the exact name. :(

        Okay. That green stuff is literally called Green Stuff. My memory was just assuming that's what I called it.

      What sort of scale are you looking at doing.
      Things like plasticard and moulding putty (eg greenstuff) will be required.
      If you're doing something bigger then balsa wood and supplies from model/hobby stores are the way to go.

        I've got the base figure (NECA Claptrap figure that's only just recently come out), plus a whole bunch of other parts from other figures that will suit and are of the same scale. I think I'm going to need to get some Greenstuff for some parts that I can't salvage from other places.

          That looks reasonably large. Greenstuff is really only for the very very fine details or gap filling. It would take a crapload of it to make larger details. And it's not overly cheap. If you use a lot of it you have to work in small layers and sections so they dry properly.
          Also greenstuff is very hard to use with big flat areas since it's hard to get flat and picks up fingerprints easily.

      Stuff like this is why I really hope that 3D printing continues to get more affordable. I've gotten very very close to buying a Makerbot a few times but the fact that they don't have a good solution for support materials for printing overhangs etc. sort of pulls me away from it. Though most of that could be handled by simply printing in parts and assembling I guess. The other thing is that even the most advanced stuff is still about a 2mm resolution I think so you still have to sculpt in any really fine detail. I collect lots of figures and my main goal with a 3D printer would be to make custom parts and customize my collection, just don't think it's quite there yet.

      And once it is there I bet Games Workshop etc. go on some kind of crazy anti-3D printer copyright rampage. I mean you literally could steal a car over the internet.

        Yeah the problem with 3D printing is still the resolution. Especially for the cheaper home made devices. There is no way you'll match the detail of a fine resin cast, at least not yet.

          The new Makerbots have a resolution of 100 micros (0.10mm), which is pretty amazing.
          Could always go UV printing and get down to 8 micron resolution if you wanted to go all out!

    So there is a post on reddit that shows Dishonoured for PC breaking street date.... by over a week!!!
    Where's my copy damn it!

    EDIT: Disregard, seems it needs steam activation, so you won't be able to play it early anyway.

    Last edited 03/10/12 11:57 am

      Oh, man. That would be so good and allow me to play XCOM on launch day too, without having to make some horrible Sofie's Choice. :P

    I'll just leave this here for all you Sonic fans :)

      HD remakes are like taking off beer goggles.

        Putting them on in this case.


          With a nose that flat she could give grea-yeah I'm going to stop myself there.

    Favourite song of the moment. Favourite song of all-time.


      I think Space Oddity by David Bowie or Desperado by the Eagles might be my favourite of all-time. Of the moment? Probably So Far Away by Carole King.

      It depends. If Dark Horse accept my pitch, it'll be "Keep Your Heart Broken" by The Rasmus.

        Intriuging! :D

          If not, it's a bit more tricky. So many songs have sentimental value, even if they aren't the 'best'. For example, at my wedding, we first-danced to Bon Jovi's "Thank You For Loving Me."

          If I had to pick a song that objectively, I would consider to be the best, it's difficult, but right now it would probably be "Save Yourself, I'll Hold Them Back" by My Chemical Romance.

            That's certainly true, if this question was asked even a couple of months ago the answers would be different. (Last month it totally would've been Life's a Happy Song by The Muppets. :P)

              A worthy choice. I sing that song with my two-year-old :)

      The moment - Short Change Hero by The Heavy. (Obvious reasons.)

      All Time - I'm not sure if that's a question that can be answered. There is so much music of so many differing styles that trying to pick a "favourite" is pretty much an exercise in futility.

      It's too much pressure. My mind has gone blank and I can't think of any songs at all.

      Favourite song of the moment is..... a couple :P I'm really into Dark Days by Parkway Drive, as well as Gone Sovereign/Absolute Zero by Stone Sour. Also, obligatory Gangnam Style.

      All time? Not sure. Enter Sandman is one of them, because it's the first song I learnt to play in full on guitar. Moment of Truth by Gang Starr, cos it reminds me of my younger days. Also What I Got by Sublime for the same reason. There Is by Boxcar Racer is also one of my favourites, because it's a song my wife and I were obsessed with at the same time, even though we were on opposite sides of the world.

      But honestly I could probably go on and on about songs I love and the reason, but I'll leave it there.

      Bones & Skulls - Biblo.

      Favourite song? 3-way tie between Dead Right- Psyche Origami, A song unnamed that I'll never figure out on my iTunes by Daft Punk, and a song made from a guy on the internets aptly named Saturday Morning Funk from which my name is dedicated from.

      And Don't Stop Believing. I'm not sure where that is on my list, but perhaps it's so sacred it holds a tier all on it's own. I dunno.

      I don't like to pick favourites, but for the sake of discussion I will say:
      Moment: Somewhere Over the Rainbow - Israel Kamakawiwo'ole (It's just been stuck in my head for a while)
      All Time: The Trial - Pink Floyd

      Too hard to pick favourites. If not Floyd then probably one of Iron Maiden's many brilliant tracks. Or Mussorgsky's Night on Bald Mountain. Or... Who knows.

    This article about the ending of Binding of Isaac has been described by Ed Mcmillen (the man behind the madness) as being

    By far the most mind blowingly accurate break down of the over arching meaning behind the binding of isaacs ending.

    Never playing this game.


      It's such an awesome game though. And only a few $
      Greenius can also vouch for it

      Last edited 03/10/12 12:37 pm

        I own it thanks to one of the humble bundles.

        Still not touching it.

          Are you an easily offended? I can see how it could offend Christians.
          If you like fun intelligent addictive games with some great re-playability and pop culture references, you will love BoI
          If you already have it, you're doing yourself a disservice by not trying it.
          Sure it's twisted and crazy, and initially quite cringe worthy. But the simplicity, art, randomness and craziness are part of the charm. I haven't met anyone yet who has given it a good go and not liked it.

            I'm not easily offended and I'm not Christian. That description of what is going on is just too dark, there's no way I'm going to enjoy it knowing that's the subtext.

              I thought your issue was with the grammar :P
              That would be enough for me.

                not erry1 can b a grammer natsy all da tim

                That was pretty painful to type.

                  an grammer natsy*

                  My mistake.

              Fair enough. Maybe I just like dark things.
              I did like that what was going on was open to interpretation. I always took it fairly literally but I haven't gotten round to playing around with the Basement collection yet.

                There are various films and whatnot that deal with the same themes that I've probably enjoyed. It's not exactly a ground-breaking theme to deal with. Just not one I'm particularly in the mood for.

    I know exactly how you feel. Ever since I've done my gaming course, I've always wanted to make a decent game (ANYTHING longer then one level) but have only ever managed this

      i will check this out when i get home, remind me if i forgets :)

    As a man fearing his xbox may of tanked it this news of a price drop in 360s is welcome. However as AC3 is on two discs (360) and they say you wont be swapping Im worried 4GB wont be enough.

      Oh, man. My HD is completely full on the 360. (Which took a long, long while. So many games installed.) Will have to go on a deleting spree.

        Think imma have to turn my xbox on today and play it to see how it is. I have enough HDD space but if I have to buy a new one it wont take my current hard drive

          Yeah, it's too bad you can't use the old hard drives on the Slim system. Had to buy one last year at the Christmas sales.

      I hope swapping remains an option. I loathe mandatory installs. I have a teeny tiny HDD

        I love having the games installed, if only cause my old 360 used to sound like a Harrier taking off. I don't think the Slim has that problem, but the damage is done. Things need to be installed before I can relax. :D

        From the article I read the were really pushing not wanting to make users swap dics. So it may mean its a one time thing but I felt it sounded more like an install. Though they went into detail on what was filling the discs up and mentioned 2 cinematics. Maybe itll just be one for single and one for multiplayer.

      I am so undecided on AC3. My PC could play it no problem and probably look a lot better. But Ubisoft DRM. I know they've said they're changing their PC DRM approach but I don't know if I believe them. On the other hand, I have all the other AC games on 360...

        Same here, man. My master race machine could play it properly, but Ubisoft and the PC aren't friends. :'(

      My HD has just under 4 gigs left on it. I have no idea what I'm going to do when Halo 4 comes out and requires 8 gigs free space. interesting. I almost qualify for the top tier already.

      Same here, but it's not much of a discount and seems to promote playing for rewards or street cred rather than playing for fun. (Not unlike the Steam rating.)

      Last edited 03/10/12 12:53 pm

        I guess if there's too much of a value on that gamerscore then there could be some sort of liability (or just an exponential jump in support requests) around achievements that bug out / don't register.

          Or would just encourage gamers to spend more time with each game... which is exactly the opposite of what their business model would want. If you think about it, it's much better to hype the shit out of a game that people will buy, play for five minutes, and go out and buy another game. Encouraging people to pad their gamerscores with extended playtime is contrary to their money-making plans. Also, I think this is why they charge for multiplayer.

            Hopefully it's not a prelude to a new free-to-play model where they'd want you to spend more time too.

            Generally actually it's faster to play many games and get 200-300 easy achievement points then move to the next one than to get a few games and get to 1000/1000. The only reason I'm at 22k is because I've got stuff from many games, never got 100% of achievements from anything.

      *Birthday Gift (approximate retail value ("ARV"): $0.25 USD)

      They really went all out with it didn't they.

        Woo! Two-thirds of a Chupa Chup.

        360 4 LYF

      Where's Blerghman when you need him? :P

      Not sure what they're trying to do here. It's not a significant enough perk to influence anyone's gaming habits or build brand loyalty, surely?

      I don't know the exact amount, but I've got somewhere in the 17,000 range at the moment. I've never really been one for unlocking achievments. If they happen they happen and if they don't they don't.

      Top tier, baby!

      *edited so I'm not calling anybody a top tier baby.

      Last edited 03/10/12 1:06 pm

    Z0mg h4x0rz
    I managed to load a webpage! And it was TAY!

    Quickly now, fill me in on what I've missed. Seriously. My connection could drop again AT ANY SECOND. (in which case, I'll likely be disconnected for quite some time. Speak to you all tomorrow/next week!)

    Just sat with the kids and watched an episode of TJ Hooker. Weirdly they loved it.

    And god damn but are the opening credits for S.W.A.T awesome. All the main stars running/jumping through windows/rappelling down walls then freezing in a badass pose while their name comes up. Pure 70's gold.

      This is going to be controversial, but TV before the '90s (with the exception of Star Trek: The Next Generation.) was terrible, disposible garbage. :P Luckily we're in a golden age now. :D

        Big Brother, Jersey Shore, Here Comes Honey Boo Boo, Wife Swap, Extreme Makeover, X factor.

        Yep, definitely a golden age.

          Mad Men. Breaking Bad. Boardwalk Empire. Six Feet Under. The X-Files. Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Firefly. Lost. Game of Thrones. The Sopranos. Alias. Boardwalk Empire. Treme. The West Wing. Gilmore Girls. Felicity. Battlestar Galactica, Freaks and Geeks... I'll stop... Golden age in drama I should've said. :P

          What the hell is a Honey Boo Boo?

          Last edited 03/10/12 1:16 pm

            Thats because that what is in your (our) era. If you grew up with Charlies Angels, CHiPs, TJ Hooker, Miami Vice, Starsky and Hutch, I dream of Jeannie, M*A*S*H, The Six Million Dollar Man, The Man From U.N.C.L.E, The Avengers, Brady Bunch etc they would have been the greatest shows ever made.

              I... disagree. I'm talking more about the production values and the writing. TV's more cinematic than ever, bigger budgets and taken more seriously. (Haha! I'm sorry if I'm coming across as a douche bag. That happens when you've got a degree in television production. :P Oh, man. So damn douchey. :() I've got plenty of favourites made before the '90s, but creatively its never been better.

              (I understand this is all just my opinion too. Don't mean to state it as gospel. I suck.)

              Last edited 03/10/12 1:24 pm

                It's true that these days there is a lot more money in TV. The home video market paved the way, ensuring that shows could keep earning long after they were taken off the air, and the age of collectable DVDs cemented that in place. And with more money comes much higher production values (generally speaking). In my opinion, though, the standard of writing contains the same spectrum of godawful to godlike that it always has.

                  The added level of respectability alone has increased the quality, attracting people who wouldn't touch the medium with a ten foot pole. Glenn Close in Damages. Martin Sheen in The West Wing, etc. Also from a behind-the-scene perspective too. I'm not saying that movie people automatically make it superior, but the fact they don't shun it any more says something. (Could say the same about video games as well. I don't even think we're in a golden age of games yet, the best is yet to come!)

                  Last edited 03/10/12 1:38 pm

                  TV revenue has moved away from syndication rights and towards DVD sales which makes a huge impact in the way the shows get made.

                  Before the home video market really kicked off, shows wanted to hit enough episodes to get into syndication. That's where the big money was. That favoured long running shows that returned to the status quo at the end of each episode. Now that people are watching shows on DVD or Netflix or whathaveyou, there's more incentive to have more overarching stories. People are watching the whole run so you want to make them stick through the whole thing.

                That's a good point, man. Can't ignore the reasons why TV was how it was, you're right.

                (That was directed at Trjn's syndicated comments. This new comment system will take some getting used to.)

                Last edited 03/10/12 1:41 pm

              Every era has good shows and terrible shows.

              For every Community, there are five Two and a Half Men or King of Queens.

              There are some shows that stand the test of time, like Get Smart or M*A*S*H and others that were merely good for their time (not jumping on that grenade).

              Right now there are an obscene amount of great shows on TV. That's because there are an obscene amount of TV shows being produced. We've never had as much access to entertainment and never had the resources we currently have to make it. Which means there's the opportunity to make a lot of great television and also the opportunity to make a lot of irredeemable shit.

                But doesn't the sheer amount of great stuff constitute a golden age, even if it's just a matter of more being produced. (At arguably higher budgets.)

                  Also stuff like telling an arc. Back in the day networks would shoot that down and make the show tell standalone, reset at the end episodes. We're now getting insanely good stories that aren't afraid to change.

                  I mentioned the story arc thing above (syndication vs home video). A good example of that is Nickelodeon. Nicktoons used to have to be able to be run ad nauseum. No overaching story, status quo is god, no beginning, middle or end.

                  Angry Beavers is a bit infamous for having a script that dealt with the show being cancelled and breaking the fourth wall. You can find an audio recording of it on YouTube. That was meant to be the final episode but it never got that far.

                  Nick has since changed their policy that exploited syndication and mass repeats (well, they still do mass repeats, it is a children's channel after all) which is how we end up with shows like Avatar.

                  Now here's the kicker: just because the new method of making television allows for greater story telling does not necessarily mean that it makes for better television. Having a story arc does not necessarily make a show better.

                  It allows for a different type of show. Much like the difference between an opera and an album.

                  True enough, but the fact we have a different type of show that didn't exist in the past means the medium has matured, though. Probably. Maybe. *runs* :P

                  Matured is a not inaccurate way of describing things.

                  I'd like to think that there are more story telling tools available right now. You can craft some beautiful things with simple tools.



          You've got a point there. Damn you Trijn. *shakes fist*

            Oh... but that was totally before its time. *salvaged* :P

            Last edited 03/10/12 1:20 pm

          Thank God someone said M*A*S*H.
          Also, Dad's Army, Monty Python, Hitchhiker's Guide, Doctor Who, Fawlty Towers, Yes Minister. Get Smart FTW.

          Plenty of pap then, just like there's plenty of pap now. Only our pap now is 'reality' TV as often as not.



          Last edited 03/10/12 1:24 pm

            Just finished rewatching Fawlty Towers a week ago. Hot damn I love that show. I posit that there is yet to be a TV comedy that surpasses it.

            Never been fond of British TV. My warped perspective is mainly about American television. :P


              we can't talk anymore.

              Seriously though i know bunny doesn't watch it but DOCTOR WHO

                Haha! I said that to my Scottish lecturer once and he looked at me with disgust. :D

            I was trying to stay clear of the British comedies because that was just too easy :p

              They showed definitively and absolutely (and still do, actually, with stellar shows like Outnumbered) that you do not need a big budget to produce quality TV. No one does cheap like the Brits.

                Yeah, good point. Higher budgets are just a by-product of an industry taking more seriously. Doesn't cheapen the work done on a... uh... cheaper budget.

      LJ Hooker, you're the best!

        I don't know how to break the news to you, so I'm not going to point anything out.

          Wait, we're not discussing a Real Estate drama TV show? Damn.

      Oh, man. I sound like a fucking pretentious mofo. I'm sorry.


          DON'T DO THAT!

          SHANE! BAD!

          You prefer Modern TV. Nothing wrong with that. I stopped watching TV in the late 90's so my opinion doesn't really count.

            I remember non-TV minded folks used to mock the medium at Uni and it would angry up the blood. :P I get unreasonably passionate about my own opinion in this instance, unfortuantely. :( Don't mean to dismiss the opinions of others, because you're right, there's plenty to like about the past too. You're all good people I respect a whole damn lot too. :)

            You're right, though, it all just comes down to me liking the aethetics of TV today more than the past. :)

            Last edited 03/10/12 1:39 pm

              See, I like the old school Sci-FI and some of the ingenious ways they got what they needed onto screen without CGI or any budget.

                Overuse of CGI is another topic I can go on rants about! I freakin' love practical special effects, so you've got a point there. Just cause they can use CGI excessively, doesn't mean they should. :D

                  Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull is all the evidence you need for this.

                  Also, actors react much more authentically if the bugs/explosions/bullets are real.

                  Best sci-fi in particular has little to do with visuals to me and every thing to do with the writing as well. Just look at Next Gen compared with Enterprise. Enterprise might've been more of a spectacle, but people still take about Best of Both Worlds and All Good Things all these years later. Even with the less spiffy effects.

                  Last edited 03/10/12 1:55 pm

                  Miniatures and muppets!

                  I always favour practical effects. They age so much better.

                  EDIT: Also limitations force people to come up with creative solutions.

                  Last edited 03/10/12 2:01 pm

                  That's true too! You're right. (I'm totally glad no one mentioned The Twilight Zone earlier, I forgot about it and it would've killed my case right there... oh no...)

    So im trying to cancel my automatic renewal on xbox live (that I didnt know about) and they want to send me a code but its to an email address I stopped using in the 6th grade I dont even know how they have it

    EDIT: NVM I got the solution just have to wait till 1st november

    Last edited 03/10/12 1:18 pm

      You can cancel it online without no code mumbo jumbo. Last time I did this was a few months ago and I just went on, logged in then changed it in the settings.

        Thats what I was doing but they wanted to email me a code I had to enter

    Argh, Telstra ads slow down Kotaku so much. It's always Telstra ads!

      Adblocker ftw

        I do use AdBlocker, but I whitelist Kotaku. Supporting the website and all that jazz. It probably doesn't make much difference in the end, but anyway.

        It'd be great to just block Telstra ads specifically though. I don't know what they do but all the animations and things make my computer chug.

          Implying that your internet is crap and you should switch to Telstra. Its says right there, High Speed.

            That's the funny thing, I'm already on Telstra!

            EDIT: Thinking about it... that's probably their plan! Make me think my current plan isn't as good as this super fast 3G or whatever they're advertising. Sneaky buggers!

            Last edited 03/10/12 2:22 pm

          i.. believe you can, depending on your browser. I'm running chrome and right-clicking on certain ads allows me to block them. But I dunno, I block everything these days so yeah.

            Oh really? Didn't know that! I'll have to try that once the ad rolls around again. Thanks!

            I can see an option to block ads by URL as well, but they change so frequently I don't know what good that would do.

          I have my flash plugin disabled by default, only enable on demand for specific flash. Stops most ads dead.

            noscript for firefox and scriptno for Chrome.

            Best addons ever, allows for granular permissions of all scripts running on websites, especially handy in stopping cross site scripting attacks, facebook likes, ad tracking etc

      God damn it. What is with Kotaku randomly inserting itself into my links?

        I don't know, but it always seems to be you that it happens to haha I think it might do it when you don't put http:// at the front of the URL?

        EDIT: Nope. Must be gremlins.

        Last edited 03/10/12 2:04 pm

          If you're using < a > tags then you need to be clear what you're referencing. Like so.

          I hope that works, since I'm posting from mobile site and unable to edit anything serious. It would be a pretty cool break though...

      It made me laugh, but not for the right reasons. :P Although the fact there's so much alternative stuff to watch instead means golden age? Not stuck watching this if you don't want to... or something. :)

      (Haha! There's not much of a defense here, I admit.)

      Just when I thought there couldn't be a show worse than toddlers and tiaras

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