Talk Amongst Yourselves

This is where Kotaku readers go to talk about the stuff we're not already posting about. Think of it as the official unofficial Kotaku community forum.

And for the hawk-eyed, yes, it's changeover time again! Mark is still way too cool for us. The last email I got from him said something along the lines of "Pfft... I can MAKE people now!" So I'll be covering for the next two weeks, after which we'll return you to your regularly scheduled programming. Shout out loud if I miss anything!


Comments

    @mawt

    What were all those crazy McDonalds combos again? McGangBang? That farm thing?

    :P

      Wat?

      I'm not googling McGangBang.

      Edit: I googled it. Huh..

      Last edited 15/01/13 11:13 am

        Make sure you turn safe search off. =P

        Fairly sure it's a mcchicken inside a Big Mac/trick to make people ask for a McGangbang.

          McChicken inside a double cheeseburger as far as I can tell. The first link I clicked said spicy McChicken, I don't think it matters a whole lot.

            I first experienced it as a Big Mac where you replaced the middle "bread" part with a McChicken, therefore having two lots of beef sandwiching the chicken (which gave it the name).

      People have spoken the truth.
      McGangBang is a McChicken inside a double Cheeseburger.
      I tried it with a Double Quarter Pounder once...

    Last post on last page means repost here.

    OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT

    Mark off the 03-03-13 on your calendars people's.
    WE BE GOING TO DREAMWORLD ON THAT DATE.

    Save your pennies (or penises if thats how you travel (@spaghett))and organise your schedule. Interstates encouraged.

    Please use the below area to discuss and questions.

      That's a few months away, time to start working on Mrs Tigs.
      Might be difficult as that was the same location as our last holiday but will see

      We should have a January meat too!

        Was going to see ParaNorman today, but could put it off until the weekend or the next. Get dinner? Or see something/do something else entirely? Maybe? :D *play it cool, D.C.*

        Last edited 15/01/13 12:05 pm

          WORST. HERMIT. EVER.

            Hermits get lonesome too, you know. :P

              Wait... do they? Are you sure about this? I've always defined hermit differently :P

            If he doesn't come to meats you won't be able to develop the Hermit social link.

      YESSSSSSS!! Tower of Terror Twoooooo!! :D

    Commiserations @dc
    It was on this day many years ago that your hermit life was first disrupted and you were forced to go into the public domain.
    Try not to think about the blood, shock and being naked in front of strangers. Instead remember those glorious months of perfect hermit living

      Thanks, Tigerion. The naked part was the worst. :P

    Awww yeah, arranging for 2 days off before the Australia day long weekend

    That means Spaghett gets a 6 day weekend

    So keen!

      Greenius' birthday is on Australia Day. I don't know if that impacts your plans or anything... :P

      10 day weekend! Aww yiss!

        You lucky shite

        Last edited 15/01/13 11:36 am

          So I suppose I shouldn't mention that my 10 day weekend involves a trip to Melbourne for Big Day Out?

            Mention it my friend, BDO was not my cup O' tea this year, I prefer, and always will prefer, Soundwave

            Also, GAMBINO SIDESHOW TOMORROW NIGHT!

              Oh, absolutely. I went to BDO a couple of years ago and saw Muse headlining. Whilst good times, it has nothing on the Iron Maiden headlined Soundwave.

              Also, I THOUGHT THAT WAS TONIGHT?!

                Nah man, Gambino tomorrow night

                So I finish work at 5, thats about 3 hours to kill until the gig starts, should be good :)

      Indefinite infinite holidays.. Fuck yeah? It's kinda boring being unemployed actually, it's not fun kids D=

        I know man, spent a year and a half unemployed

        Lost a bit of my sanity

        Also, hate Centrelink with a burning passion

          3 years this March.. I think i'm gonna have to bite the bullet and apply for Centrestink :S

            Dude :(

            That sucks for you

            Centrelink is horrible but gives you a bit of dosh to play with and live on

            Good luck my friend

              Cheers, I just hope they advertise this job of my mates soon, like he said they should. But idk.

      I'm probably going to have to go to the US for Australia Day #unaustralian.

        Damn man!

        I will probably do nothing "Australian"

        I'll hang out with Sam, and that's about it

        No sunscreen, no Australian Flag, no alcohol, no bbq

        I'll watch DVD's and listen to music

    Okay! I know you have all been waiting for it! It is my MQT results show! In second place we have a 3 way tie! Between SP from @shane, LP from @lambomann007 and "... but we had one yesterday :|" from @trollius @greenius. Which means SH wins!! Yayyyy!
    *throws confetti in everyone's eyes*

    "What have I voted for exactly?" you may ask? Well tonight I will watch Sherlock Holmes instead of Scott Pilgrim (which I will probably watch tomorrow night).

      Tonight you will play Silent Hill. Sorry. The game never lies and everyone knows SH is ALWAYS Silent Hill.

      Also the lights have to be off. LP, remember?

      But my doctor told me specifically not to get confetti in my eyes!

      If its the first Sherlock, I approve. Second was majorly disappointing

      Edit: Mind you, still better than the SP film :/

      Last edited 15/01/13 11:34 am

        I have the first and second (bought them on the weekend), I'm gonna watch the first tonight and the second tomorrow. Also I liked the Scott Pilgrim movie.

          I really liked the Scott Pilgrim movie! (Though thought it could've finished twenty minutes earlier.) Note: Never liked Sherlock Holmes OR Robert Downey Jnr. :P

          Last edited 15/01/13 11:39 am

            GET OUT

              :'( *walks away with head down*

              Which part did you object to? All of it? :P

                I'm going to guess the RDJ part.

                Watch Kiss Kiss Bang Bang.

                  *adds it to the list*

                  I've got The Descendents ready to watch. Progress is being made on the list front!

                  @dc

                  Put Kiss Kiss Bang Bang at the top.

                  I don't care.

                  No, no, I won't listen to your arguments, just do it young man.

                  Everyone keeps making me put stuff at the top of the list. I'm only one man! :P

                Don't worry man, I'm mostly with you. Don't much care for RDJ at all. I liked the Scott Pilgrim film, it was fun and had a unique style.

                But I do like the Sherlock books and the BBC series, and will not hear a word against them.

                Happy birthday

                  I made the effort to walk down Baker St when in London, though. Sherlock Holmes redemption?

          Don't worry, Sughly is a film snob. The Ruffleberg of films.

        The second one wasn't as good, but I did enjoy seeing the old timey steampunkish technology.

        Thought Scott Pilgrim was a horrible film.

        I fell asleep in the first Sherlock Holmes movie. It was super-boring.

      Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
      Oh wait, you'll watch it tomorrow night. Righto.

        Actually it won't be tomorrow more likely the night after. I need to watch the second Sherlock Holmes.

      So not the BBC Sherlock?

      That shit is the bomb!

        Agreed. In recentish Sherlock-Holmes related visual media my rankings are:

        1) BBC series
        2) Now-showing 'Elementary' series
        3) House MD
        4) The RDJ movies

        Order of #2/#3 is tentative... maybe an artificial boost because I discovered #2 just recently.

          Mine goes:

          1) Books - they count as visual media because you have to look at them
          2) BBC show
          3) ...
          9998) Everything else

            Nice catch... I have not read the books so feel unqualified to rate them :(

            Mine goes

            1)Books (shane is right, also very well written stories imho)
            2) BBC Sherlock
            3)RDJ Movies
            4)?????
            5) Profit
            6)nothing else
            @fled

          Elementary is so... average though.
          In the sense that the the writing and characters are so generic that you could swap them out with any other American-style cop show character and still have the same script apply. It doesn't make much use of Sherlock being Sherlock, more like just a sort of kooky and clever English dude.

            Maybe my standards are not high and I'm looking for things to fill the gap left by most other things I was watching going on break :(

              Clone Wars. Tron Uprising. Watch them now.
              Tron Uprising is amazing. (And I'm not the only one who thinks that :P)

            I've only seen the previews, but I got that impression too.

              Yep, from the previews it looked like a typical american cop show.

            Yeah, they didn't really capture the Sherlock character very well in that show. I found at the best of times it was average.

      Not sure if you mean the film or the TV series..

    Happy birthday @DC

    wait what do you mean I'm late

    WELL I'M SORRY MAN I LIVE IN THE PAST.

      Thanks Saturday! Hope Canada's treating you well? How's life back at home?

        It's snowing! That stuff's great when you don't have to shovel it!

          Snow! Never seen it, I don't believe it exists and there's nothing you can say to convince me otherwise. :P

            First words back in canada

            "HOLY SHIT I FORGOT WHAT SNOW LOOKED LIKE"

            I'm sure @Bish has the better measure of it, though.

    Snacktaku: The Heart-Attack-On-A-Budget Edition #8 @dc @greenius

    1. Take three hash browns. Cook them as per the instructions on the packet. You get extra points if you fry them (I don't get extra points today)
    2. Take three English muffins and toast them in the regular way.
    3. Combine together with a generous helping of grated cheese, and heat in anyway you choose to ensure full cheese meltage.

    Enjoy your heart attack.
    Total cost of meal: ~$2.50 + $10000 hospital stay

    Last edited 15/01/13 11:51 am

      I've had ten chicken nuggets and a box of chocolates. 28 is looking as healthy as 27! :P

        You should try 40 nuggets in one sitting sometime.

      Mathematically that works out to be +$9997.50!

      Remember kids, always use brackets properly when Mathsing!

        I think you have mistaken tilde for a negative sign :)

        Remember kids, always read the problem closely before solving.

          WHAT IS THIS FONT SORCERY

          But seriously that's a bit weird huh.

            Canadian fonts. Eh?

              Yeah! What's all that aboot!?

                International conspiracy would be my guess. North American is trying to do away with our punctuation to make language inexact, and turn the world stupid and malleable (or more so).

                Eh?

                Last edited 15/01/13 12:18 pm

              Same font magic here.... -o- and ~o~ look pretty similar. D:

              It's all a ploy by THE MAN to gradually erode the rights of people to flail their arms horizontally in a poorly drawn ascii-art picture.

                Are you in Canada now? I had no idea.

            Happens in my Firefox also.
            I try and avoid using tilde now.

          That's been happening in Chrome since the site relaunch.

          You're the crazy one!

      There's not nearly enough saturated fat in that to cause a heart attack, just mainly starch.

    Just purchased DmC. It was an....interesting experience.

    Ducked up to the EB in this centre. No copies on the shelf. Anywhere. No stands with promo boxes either. Just a poster on the wall. Spend the next 5 mins trying to get the girls attention while she picks her nails in the corner of the store. Finally get her attention and she respond with "It's not out yet." I point to the poster where it says out 15th January. She tells me it's not the 15th yet. Starting to get cranky I pull my phone out and explain that why yes, it is the 15th today. She asks if I preordered and sighs and rolls her eyes when I say I didn't. She disappeared into the back room for another 5 minutes and comes out, slaps the game down and tells me it will be $119.95. About to lose it I actually have to pull up the EBgames site where it's advertised in store for $89.95. More eye rolling and I eventually get out of there.

    Guess who is never going back to that store again? Knew I shouldn't have deviated from my usual one.

    FUN FACT: The back of the box has a quote on it which says "Plays just like a real DMC game!". Are they admitting its not?

      Should of got it at JB Hifi comes with a Soundtrack. and embossed sleeve, you should of price matched aswell to piss her off.

      Also Hype!

      Last edited 15/01/13 11:57 am

      Hahaha, hope the game is a more enjoyable and less interesting experience for you.

      "Plays just like a real DMC game" - I gotta know, who signed off on that wording? Amazing.

      Oh, man. What happened EB Girl? You've changed!

        She lost her one true love, when he stammered a goodbye and left like a hermit, leaving behind only a memory of their adventure games conversation. Her heart pounds now just to think about it, but the memory is tinged with sadness, because she hasn't seen him since.

        She took the enterprise copy of his receipt from the till when the store had closed that night. She looks at it everyday. And with moist eyes, remembers.

        It's now months later. She never recovered that glint in her eye or the spring in her step. Every customer is judged against him, and none of them measure up. She takes it out on them, which is perhaps a little unfair, but she takes it out on herself too.

        Every day she eyes the box cutter in the back room...

        Last edited 15/01/13 12:03 pm

          Suddenly I'm depressed.

            Can't imagine why. She just wants to cut open some boxes and do her job.

          You're a peculiar guy, Shane. Never change.

      Is this Centro Tweed and that white blonde haired girl? If so I had the exact same experience with her at Tweed City regarding Metro 2033, though she was clueless as to what I was on about and had never heard of it, but y'know must've been hard to miss from all the posters and stands advertising it in the store.

    I'm here, and it's still morning!
    \o/
    Also, hello.

      Crazyguy, hope life's treating you good?

        Yeah, things are going pretty well. :)
        The Extras that I got from The Meek webstore arrived this morning!
        They're a good read, and they explain a little more about the story from each chapter, as well as some stuff from when Helmer started writing the comic.

    IM GROWING INPATiENT PEOPLE, CLAIM THESE COPIES OF RAVAGED NOW OR I MAY HAVE TO RESORT TO RANDOM STEAM GIFT GIVING!!!!!

    I HAVE 3 COPIES LEFT!!!!!!!!

    Last edited 15/01/13 12:03 pm

      It's @dc's birthday - GIFT
      It's @spaghett's brother's birthday - GIFT to Spaghett
      It was @mcgarnical's and @batgirl's birthday yesterday - GIFT

      Er... you might have to buy a fourth copy.

      And you're welcome.

        Haha, no getting stuff makes me feel weird. Thanks but no thanks. :P

          You don't have a choice on your birthday. If you would only share your damn address, I would have sent you something :(

            Just past the rocky outcrop on the outskirts of town, there's a network of caves. Avoid The Last Crusade inspired traps I've set up too!

              I tried there. Your answering service said you were out socialising.
              Worst hermit ever.

                Misdirection and lies! A hermit's friend! :P

                  Maybe, but the EB girl was so disappointed :(

                  Only the penitent EB girl will pass.

                  DC: Only the penitent EB girl will pass.

                  That's dirty, man. Hands and knees. I thought you were better than that :P

                  Still, the heart wants etc

                  Last edited 15/01/13 12:41 pm

                  I just wanted to make a Last Crusade reference. Is that so wrong? :P

                  In this circumstance, I guess it was wrong.

                  Usually, I would have let it go, but it's your birthday today. I don't know why that matters, BUT IT DOES

        He could gift me something else? I already have Ravaged :D

          UNGRATEFUL!
          It's the thought that counts.

            It is, I am grateful for that

            He and I had already talked about it :)

              I know man, I remember. I'm just ... being ... me, or something ... because I'm bored at work :P

                Oh, that's alright

                Spaghett. Gets. Jokes.

                (after they are pointed out to his anxiety riddled brain, I should have noticed when you said Ungrateful in full capital letters)

      FINE BECAUSE YOU'RE SO ANGRY I'LL TAKE ONE I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT IT IS

    Because @dc probably won't repost this!

    Was going to see ParaNorman today, but could put it off until the weekend or the next. Get dinner? Or see something/do something else entirely? Maybe? :D *play it cool, D.C.*

    @trjn, @freezespreston, @virus__, @beardymcmuttonchops, @strange, @sernobulus, @sughly. (Out-of-town, I know!) Any takers? It'll be fun... maybe... could happen! :D

      Comeon peeps! (So street) Lets do this thang!

      *nervous*

        Heh, sorry if you didn't want people to see but I am keen to do something with the Brisbane folks!

        *whispers* dammit nob, you're coming on too strong / needy

      Does it have to be Northside again? That...was a long drive.

        Not at all, man. I was thinking city, but whatever's good for the majority of people! Also forgot to tag @lambomann007!

          Oh man, I just tagged him on the original comment!

          Wow! I just scrolled up and saw that you (lambo) posted before I did :P. I should've refreshed!

          Last edited 15/01/13 12:33 pm

          IPSWICH MEET! WOOOOOOOO!
          ...
          Yeah, no.
          :P

            Better than a Groote Eylandt meat... :P

            Last edited 15/01/13 12:30 pm

          Wifey says yes as long as we can get babysitters. Sooo, the sooner I get details the more likely we will be there.

            Oh, cool! Do you guys want to meat this Saturday (19th) maybe or the week after? Whatever works for you guys! (Also no one should feel obligated to attend, though. No pressure. Haha!) Will try to get details to you ASAP!

            Edit: Holy damn, that original post had so much unintended innuendo. Haha!

            Last edited 15/01/13 12:39 pm

              Saturdays are problematic for me because of work. Saturday nights and Sundays are free and easy.

      I do not want to see that silly-looking movie. :P

        We don't have to, though! We could see other stuff! Like a monkey knife fight! :P

          I don't think I'm free for a while anyway. Got this week and weekend which is the last of Mr. Strange's holidays so we're busy and then next weekend he'll be gone for the week going to 70000 Tons Of Metal (without me :'( ) so I won't have any transport or babysitter.

            Aw, that's too bad. I understand though. :)

      I'm a no for this weekend. Saving all our $$ for our holiday starting next weekend. I'm a maybe, but very unlikely, for theme park meat in March.

    @shane

    The actual quote http://imgur.com/biBWp

      *blink*
      I honestly don't know what to say. In terms of marketing fails, I guess this isn't a big one, but it's still kind of ludicrous.

      NO GUYS SERIOUSLY THIS IS A DMC GAME I SWEAR GUYS SERIOUSLY IT'S JUST LIKE ONE

    http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8593522

    Aww....

    hey, when's the next time the world is supposedly gonna end? like it was apparently going to last month?

    coz I have a plan - find as many people who believe in it as I can & suggest that on the eve of the apocalypse, they sign over all of their possessions to me. I mean, the worlds gonna end tomorrow, right? Obviously dont need that money or that house anymore...

    Hell, I'd quite happily donate the proceeds to charity (well, 90% of them anyway). I'd be interested to see how many people would be willing to back up their claims by doing this.

    who's in?

    Edit: then again, I'd be an absolute bastard if I took their stuff & donated it to charity & the world didnt end & they still needed it. Fine, if the world doesnt end, they can have 90% of their stuff back. the other 10% goes to charity.

    Last edited 15/01/13 12:42 pm

      Intriguing idea.

      Still, I think people are going to hedge their bets.

      Like the God thing. Going to church isn't a big sacrifice if it means getting into heaven, but if God demanded that we each cut off an appendage before death, the takeup would probably be a lot lower, regardless of people's level of conviction :P

      Edit: it occurs to me that this post was meant to be tongue-in-cheek humour... which my reply did not acknowledge at all.

      Last edited 15/01/13 12:45 pm

        Oh I dont doubt that almost nobody would take me up on the offer. I'm more interested in discrediting attention-seeking morons so they shut up about the whole thing.

      2015 according to people who watched Neon Genesis Evangelion too often.

      (I don't know if that's an actual thing but it's the first thing that popped up in my mind thinking about impending future fictional apocalypses)

    Hmm I'm not too fond of buying clothes online...

    On one hand it's good since I don't have to leave the house ( :D ) but on the other hand I have no idea what the fit will be like ( D: ). I'm in need of some (more) green clothing so that's probably what I'll be buying :P!

    Anyone use ASOS before? I hear they're fine but I guess the fit depends on each item...

      relevant?

      Edit: but not overly helpful. sorry.

      Last edited 15/01/13 12:53 pm

        But that involves going ...outside

        Also ASOS have their own 'brand' of clothing so I can't really go out and try it in a shop

        (I'm set on them because they have a sale atm but if anyone else knows some cheap clothing sites, just holla!)

        Last edited 15/01/13 12:56 pm

          but the thing is, you only have to go outside once :p

          but yeah... ASOS... I dunno. what their returns policy like? buy a few different sizes & return stuff that doesnt fit? Then for future purchases, you know exactly what sizes you need.

            I think it's decent but you have to send stuff back (and pay for it) to their Sydney office and I think that goes to the UK.

    A lunch of Mi Goreng makes any day good

    Also, I am finished all my allocated tasks for the day

    I have been texting Sam, and emailed her

    And talking to my sister about DLC for Arkham Asylum

    My day is going alright

    I won @shane's competition too, Flawless victory

      @shanes competition was completely rigged!!! the program bugged out on me. i clearly stated "PRETEND to offer mark a ufc related gift" and then it tells me that i died and lost a bazillion points because i didnt have a gift to give to begin with....ISNT THAT THE WHOLE POINT OF PRETENDING?!?

      WORST... GAME... EVER!!!

        You didn't pretend hard enough

        I win!

        Not rigged at all :D

        I worked so hard putting that game together. Harsh review is harsh :(

        PS: To pretend, you have to at least have something. Otherwise, you're just offering him empty hands :P

        PPS: If it had worked, you were trying to flee, which @dc already established leads to crushing by caber. So you would have lost regardless.

        Last edited 15/01/13 1:45 pm

          Spaghett wins

          Logic dictates it

            To be honest, I don't think amnesia, a hangover and being trapped on a fishing trawler en route to Hong Kong is the ending of true victory. Still, you did come closest.

            If only @35 had kept fighting...

              Dude, it's a free trip to Hong Kong, also, amnesia, so I could pretend to be the main character from Memento

              Hangover is the worst part of that

              Besides dude! I could pretend to be that guy from Memento!

                I don't recall saying it was free.

                ---

                EPILOGUE

                Upon arriving in Hong Kong, you are presented with a thirty million yuan travel debt, which you cannot pay. You are sold into sex slavery and spend the next eighteen months servicing sweaty fat Chinese businessmen. Then Amnesty International frees you and returns you home, where you spot a wild Mark Serrels in the bushes, and start again.

                Last edited 15/01/13 2:21 pm

                  Jebus christ!

                  I think I'd blow my brains all over the wall

                  That, or kill every sweaty Chinese business man, then myself

                  Adventuring is fun!

          when i pretended to fly as a kid i didnt have wings or a jetpack! :)
          you pretend to get it out of your shirt pocket at which point he is distracted and you knee him in the jewels!

            Fine.

            ---

            Your plan succeeds. You trick him into looking down, whereupon you knee him in his Scottish testicles. "Aw, ye kneed me in th' damn balls. Och God it hurts!"

            Then you flee and are crushed by a caber, just like @dc was.

            GAME OVER

              oh man, i thought i was about to clock the game.....

    @crazyguy1990 - why you no steam friend me?

    :`(

      Oh, man. Hope you're not offended if I decline. Thanks so much, but multiplayer's not really my thing. You're so damn awesome. :D Now I feel guilty. Haha!

        DC!!! WHY YOU NO SOCIALIZE WITH ME FOR SOME BANG BANG KAPOW KAPOW!!!!!

        EDIT: I really aught to read my posts before submitting :S

        Last edited 15/01/13 1:11 pm

          I'm flattered, man. Really. I'm just not into those kinds of shenanigans. ;)

            BUT YOU HAVE TO!!!! IT CAME WITH A SONG AND EVERYTHING!!! WOULD YOU TELL A FRIEND TO TAKE BACK THE BIRTHDAY PRESENT THEY BOUGHT YOU??? WHAT KIND OF PERSON ARE YOU DC?!?

            WORST... KIND... EVER...

            nah just kidding, but you have to nominate who gets it otherwise im just going to keep gifting it to you till you accept!

    With TERA going free to play next month some time, is anyone intending on picking the game up?

      How big is the game? I was kinda interested on release but skipped it due to it being sub based.

        I think Cakesmith and/or Rize may also be interested? I think I recall one of then contemplating trying it out.

        It's a few gigs, not enormous but not small either. Not as big as SWTOR as I recall. I'd have to check how much space it takes.

        It's gorgeous though. Unreal Engine 3. Kind of weirdly sexualised though. Not something to play if you're offended by ample amounts of cleavage and/or large codpieces.

        I played it at launch and I liked it a lot - it basically ruined SWTOR and GW2 for me because the combat is so much more exciting - but I started to have odd lag issues where I couldn't tell if the server was lagging, I had latency, or my old GPU/CPU was being overwhelmed.

    For a second, I thought there was a new TAY on the KotakuAU main page. All the confused!

    Last edited 15/01/13 1:33 pm

    Just picked up DmC and preordered the steelbook version of Tomb Raider, march feels so close can't wait.

    Unfortunately no story including indifferent staff, but hey at least I found ten dollars.

      Brilliant Story, protagonist was well represented and no annoying female nemesis. The added $10 was just icing on the cake along with the possibility of a sequel!

      10/10 would read again.

    I want to listen to music

    I want to fill my office with the brutality that is Iowa by Slipknot

    Or the beauty that is Illinoise by Sufjan Stevens

    The beats of Childish Gambino or the loops of Aphex Twin

    The harsh glitches of N.M.E

    And the cyberpunk edge to CombiChrist

    I want music!

      Is 'my office' a euphemism?

        I wish it was

        It is too quiet

        The only noises I can hear are printers, keyboards clattering, mouses clicking and the occasional voice on the phone

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