Wii U Launch Line-Up Dries Up As Several Big Games Slip

As with just about every other major console that has ever launched, promises and plans for the Wii U's first few months are thinning into the reality of a system plagued with a lack of early releases.

Today, Nintendo announced looming Wii U release dates for a couple of major games for their new console but tied that to a slew of big-game delays, knocking a quartet of significant titles out of the system's November-March launch window.

Wii U owners will get their hands on Nintendo and Traveller's Tales' single-player open-world action game Lego City Undercover on March 18 and Ubisoft's side-scroller Rayman Legends, as previously announced, on February 26. Potentially biggest of all will be Capcom's upgraded multiplayer action game Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate that hits on March 19.

But absent from Nintendo's listing today of its January-March line-up are Game & Wario, Pikmin 3, The Wonderful 101, and Wii Fit U, all of which had originally pegged by Nintendo to be out by March 31. Nintendo now merely indicates that those games will "arrive in the first half of the year." Early builds of those games have all been shown at Wii U press events since June 2012.

Nintendo hasn't released a Wii U game of its own since the system's November 18 launch and will wind up going as much as four months until it puts out a new one (Lego), unless it shoehorns some download-only games in the mix.

It's common for new systems to have skimpy release calendars. Console-makers and game publishers scramble to have games ready on launch day and usually need some time to recover and release a new wave. But no console exists in a vacuum, and the Wii U will go through this slow patch while the rival Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 get a bevy of major releases including Gears of War 3 (360), God of War 3 (PS3), Dead Space 3 (both), BioShock Infinite (both) and more. People who only have a Wii U will be missing a lot.

One bright spot for Nintendo is the announcement of a March 19 Wii U version of Need for Speed: Most Wanted, the acclaimed racing game that was released for Xbox 360, PS3 and PC last fall. It comes from EA, a major third-party whose support for Wii U has been tepid.

Nintendo's Wii U line-up should look much healthier come June 2013, when big E3 show promises to bring a Nintendo ready to show a full line-up of post-launch Wii U games at a time when rivals Microsoft and Sony are likely to be more focused on their new consoles and the type of creakier launch games that Nintendo fans had to be happy with late last year.


Comments

    Uhh, Gears of War 3 (360) and God of War 3 (PS3) are both out already... Possibly want to update the article to read Gears of War: Judgement (360) and God of War: Ascension (PS3)...

      Is this still a gaming website? Seems like a bit of an amateur faux pas to me.

        Also this: Need for Speed: Most Wanted has also been released for the Vita, and is an awesome portable game.

    The Cave is coming out for Wii U? Awesome!

    Nintendo really needs to step up its game with the Wii U eShop. In this four month dry period they could have released a whole bunch of old classic Nintendo games to fill the gaps, and made them compatible with the Wii U gamepad. I'd love to be able to play Super Mario World or Majora's Mask on the gamepad. It's like Nintendo doesn't actually want my money. I know Nintendo are all about providing new experiences and working with their new hardware, but a look back and a celebration of all that came before wouldn't be a bad thing either.

      It's never coming. 3DS can run GBA games, but they refuse to sell them. No way to legally buy those games anymore, except for secondhand and Nintendo gets no money. And it's been years with 3DS, WiiU won't be getting them either.

    It's cool, I'm sure Nintendo will adjust the definition of "launch window" to whatever they need it to be.

    This system is dead.

    By the time any decent games come out the next Xbox and PS4 will be out and the games will look ancient and un-interesting. Pikmin is probably the only quality exclusive you’ll get this year. Expect maybe an announcement of a new Mario or Zelda or something at E3 for release in mid-late 2014, running on hardware that’s comparable to the over 8 years old Xbox 360.

    Anything you’ll get before then will be the kind of rushed-out cookie cutter games we’ve seen so far like New Super Mario Brothers WiiU or whatever it was called and the new Wario Minigame collection they are throwing together at short notice.

    Nintendo have messed up badly this hardware generation.

      Zelda will be a best seller, no matter how outdated the WiiU hardware seems by the time it's released. Same goes for the next 3D (as opposed to the by-now-overdone side-scrolling) Mario title.

      Last edited 18/01/13 11:59 am

      "By the time any decent games come out the next Xbox and PS4 will be out and the games will look ancient and un-interesting. ".

      To core gamers, yes. Casual gamers are already pre-occupied with iOS and Android. Nintendo are currently dependent on the die-hard Nintendo fan, who isn't being well served.

      "Nintendo have messed up badly this hardware generation."

      To be fair, this isn't the first time. But yes, they have done so royally this time round.

      I'm personally almost stunned about how uninteresting the Wii U is, not only to myself (as someone that hasn't seen the point of the Wii U since its announcement), but to pretty much everyone else. It sits there on a shelf, for $349 AUD, an attractive number. But what's the compelling reason to buy and play it? Because it's new? There are plenty of other new bits of technology. Plenty of new phones and tablets to placate any gadgnerd desires. Because it's a Nintendo? Sure, Nintendo are much loved, but then they're the ones that sold us (the core) and the casuals a gaming machine which we all loved for a couple of months and then we all totally forgot about. The core abandoned it for the 360/PS3/PC, the casuals forgot about it altogether and moved on to iOS/Android and Faceslave games. Because of the wealth of great games that have been released like Mass Effect 3 and Batman which could be bought for less than half the cost on the other platforms, or because of the original and new content like New Super Mario Bros which is remarkably similar to other Mario games dating more than 20 years back, or because of exciting upcoming releases such as Need for Speed, which was released on other platforms several months ago. But then I'm being a bit picky because Wii U Need for Speed will have some amazing functions unique to the Wii U to look forward to, such as choosing your cars colour on a cool touchscreen (but not multi touch) tablet gamepad things, wow - just like that $99 tablet you can buy but it will have a couple of knobs on it - woah. And it will offer great gameplay benefits such as making you ignore your 55" LED and look at its 7 inch SD screen. Cool.

      Last edited 18/01/13 12:55 pm

        What a load of baloney. First of no one knows anything about the next xbox or playstation so keep dreaming till we know solid facts. People here talking 8x more powerful or whatever because someone said on twitter... i'll wait till theres some REAL facts.

        Messed up royally? compared to what? The Wii? Well thats true. But to the competition no. It has outsold the ps3 and 360s launch period numbers in a shitty world economy with few exclusives. Its done pretty darn well. Unless you define the 360s and ps3s launches as abysmal which im sure you dont.

        Ask your bias questions which you will always answer you dont want a Wii U. How obvious can you get? There isnt any real compelling reason to get one yet yes. but no doubt there will be. Nintendo has to keep the software coming and when the do it will get moving. No console starts off with the best the console has to offer. That happens further down the timeline. Its not something unique to Nintendo. I remember that the Wii despite selling so well it self had a software shortage early on. 360s first year was pretty much ports. But your the type of person that likes to make it out that its a problem for Nintendos consoles only.

        The core abandoned Nintendo because they didnt get the AAA third party titles. That is the ONLY reason. If those third party AAA titles hit the Wii U i expect them to come back. Its that simple. Although its up to Nintendo to get third parties back.

        Yes alot of the games like Mass effect are old ports, but as i have pointed out the fact that they are finally making it onto Nintendos home consoles is a good sign. A sign that those types of games can be made for the Wii U

        Some games will be hit and miss with the gamepad as EAs crap Need for speed demonstrates however it doesnt mean smarter developers wont make better use out of it

        There you go again trying to pass of your Anti Nintendo BS as some impartial commenter. You dont fool anyone.

          Hi Terrak, will you be behaving yourself this time?

          " First of no one knows anything about the next xbox or playstation "

          Oh. Doesn't anyone from Sony or Microsoft know anything about the consoles their about to announce later this year? I would have thought they would have.

          "i'll wait till theres some REAL facts."

          Your prerogative. In the meantime some of us will work with those pieces of information which we feel are accurate and realistic.

          "Messed up royally? compared to what? "

          Any other major console release that I can think of. I wasn't referring to Nintendo's launch. I was referring to Nintendo's console.

          "No console starts off with the best the console has to offer. That happens further down the timeline. Its not something unique to Nintendo."

          Agreed. What is unique to the Wii U is that is of minimal advancement over its competitors last gen, or ending gen consoles. The 360 did not have this problem.

          "Yes alot of the games like Mass effect are old ports, but as i have pointed out the fact that they are finally making it onto Nintendos home consoles is a good sign. A sign that those types of games can be made for the Wii U"

          I dont see how a new gen console being proved to be able to run old gen software is an encouraging sign.

          "There you go again trying to pass of your Anti Nintendo BS as some impartial commenter. You dont fool anyone."

          I think it's very clear that I'm "anti- Nintendo" if that's how you want to classify it. I think they've been bloody stupid in releasing such a weak offering in the Wii U. I'm quite clearly not trying to hide my views on the matter.

            I said why not wait till we have official specs before we start talking how many times more powerful the next consoles will be. I dont care what anyone has heard or thinks they heard or wishes.

            Messed up how? Because you dont like it? Thats not good enough to come to that conclusion. What other facts or evidence you going to support your argument? Nothing as usual. Why is it messed up? Because its not as powerful as the coming consoles? When has graphical power equaled the number one selling console? Never. So why make the most powerful when it wont do anything for sales? So i ask again how did they mess up the hardware? Gamepad? Its something different and something no other console (as far as we know) can do. And no ps3/vita and 360/smartglass are not the same. They are inferior versions of the Wii U gamepad concept. The gamepad adds something different to the Wii U whether you can accept it or not.

            The 360s first year was marginally improved ports (go see IGNs first year round up of the 360). Its the same for any console. No one wants to spend big development dollars on a small user base such as one of any launch console its just not worth it. Your kidding yourself if you think any other console launch is any different. Once the consoles hit 10million plus there is enough users to make big budget games viable. Until that time no console will get anything really worth the price of the console(launch price) you always pay for the potential in the beginning.

            You are. You try to pretend your interested when all along you arent and never will be. You call it a weak offering because it wont have graphics up to that of the next playstation or xbox? Has the market trends for consoles not taught you anything. Graphics dont equal sales supremacy. If it did im sure Nintendo would go all out power. But since the GC graphics have played second place to gaming experiences (which ps2 was king). And thats the key. Gaming experiences. If the Wii U can provide a unique and enjoyable gaming experience then it doesnt matter how many gigaflops the competition has. It will succeed

            Last edited 18/01/13 8:02 pm

              "Messed up how?"

              Terrak, you're not making your point clear. I don't which comment of mine you're referring to. Could you use quotes, or somehow be more specific.

              Guessing that I've made a comment saying that the Wii U is messed up and you're asking me how I've come to that conclusion, I shall provide you with the following, albeit short, answer.

              Because it's failed to offer anything compelling.

              "So i ask again how did they mess up the hardware? Gamepad?"

              Yes, Gamepad. And everything else. It either breaks new ground or it doesn't. And it doesn't.

              " Its something different and something no other console (as far as we know) can do. "

              Nonsense, and you know it.

              "And no ps3/vita and 360/smartglass are not the same. "

              Wrong.

              "They are inferior versions of the Wii U gamepad concept. "

              I won't argue with that, although some might, but even if inferior they are fundamentally the same concept.

              " The gamepad adds something different to the Wii U whether you can accept it or not."

              That's just a silly comment. The Wii U isn't the only one to offer something different with their implentation of the touchscreen gamepad concept - they all have their differences, naturally. Terrak you're verging on being absurd. Stop it.

              "Once the consoles hit 10million plus there is enough users to make big budget games viable. "

              OK, you're continuing with the absurd theme.

              Do you think that the Wii U will suddenly, as if automatically, yield great games? I don't.

              I think great games will be dependent on a number of factors including third party developer support and superior technological capability. I don't think the Wii U has either of those 2 things. I don't think it will be granted either of those two things at the point of 10 million in sales.

              ""You are."

              I am what? See, this is what I mean about quotes and being more specific.

              " If the Wii U can provide a unique and enjoyable gaming experience then it doesnt matter how many gigaflops the competition has. It will succeed"

              Absolutely agreed. I will not argue with you on this one. But, I will change your words slightly and say something with an equal or better degree of value...

              If the the shit on my shoe can provide a unique and enjoyable gaming experience then it doesnt matter how many gigaflops the competition has. It will succeed.

                Thanks for your opinion on why Nintendo messed up with the Wii U hardware. Its nice that you judge everything by somethings launch and don't give anything Nintendo makes any chance to prove itself over its life time. Its also nice you only judge the only thing thats compelling is what you decide. You DONT. Also you decide that making a console that as far as we know only improves graphics as breaking new ground. You haven't put one argument that proves that Wii U sales will fail. NOT ONE. All you have put down is your opinion based on NOTHING.

                The ps3/vita and 360/smartglass the same as the Wii U/gamepad? PLEASE ANSWER DIRECTLY. Can the ps3/vita and 360/smartglass play the full game version of Blackops2 like the Wii U version can on the gamepad? If it can't then its not the same. Oh wait they can't. Your wrong like always.

                The Wii U gamepad is different whether you like it or not. I dont care how you see it. Ask the industry. They will say the same. Its only fanboys like you that will say its the same as before. If anyone us absurd its you. Just because the competitors copied afterwards doesnt take away that it was the first to pioneer the concept. BTW if you cant accept Nintendo was first with this concept like everything about your arguments is wrong

                http://www.gamepur.com/news/10141-nintendo-comments-wii-u-gamepad-being-copy-ipad-accusations.html

                Nintendo had been preparing the Wii U concept since 2008 before the ipad had been introduced and well before ps3/vita and 360/smartglass. As always your nonsense arguments based on 'facts out of your ass' has been proven time and time again to be wrong.

                Anyway if a shit on your shoe gives you pleasure or enjoyment good luck to you. Thats all that matters. If a shit on the shoe sells more then its competitor thats what counts. However the only thing that counts to you is your misguided viewpoint on what YOU think matters. The fact is what sells well IS what matters. The fact that something can appeal to more customers IS what makes a product successful. Your problem is that you wont accept something that you dont like can ever do this. Again that is your problem.

                BTW you are by definition of a troll. Quote

                'I think it's very clear that I'm "anti- Nintendo" if that's how you want to classify it'

                You have NO intention of buying a Nintendo product yet you spend so much time on Nintendo related articles. Basically every article. For someone that doesnt care about Nintendo you occupy alot your time on them. I mean the passing 'i dont care' about Nintendo or its products is fine. But no, you have to create big comments on your biased opinion. Would you see me posting so many comments on playstation or xbox articles? No. I have no interest in those products so i dont need to comment on them. At the same time i dont instantly praise everything Nintendo either. The only thing i do is dismantle poor anti Nintendo arguments. That doesnt make me a troll. However, you are the perfect example of one. So maybe thats what you were going for. Good for you. Thats the only thing you have succeeded in doing. Everything else in your arguments has failed.

                Last edited 19/01/13 12:34 pm

                  "Thanks for your opinion on why Nintendo messed up with the Wii U hardware. Its nice that you judge everything by somethings launch and don't give anything Nintendo makes any chance to prove itself over its life time."

                  You're being childish. I am giving my opinion, today, based on what I know or understand to the be the case, today. I'm judging the Wii U based on what it is, not what it might become. I'm entitled to do that. You can focus on the potential if you want to, i'm not obliged to do that.

                  " All you have put down is your opinion based on NOTHING."

                  You're half right. The part in which you acknowledge that all I have done is put down my opinion, or laid down rather. That is ALL I'm doing. I have no idea why you're getting so upset. People have differing opinions, that's just life. You don't have to take my opinions as an assault on Nintendo. It's just one lay-persons opinion, that's all. And, further, you seem so adamant that i'm massively wrong in my opinions so why let it concern you.

                  "The Wii U gamepad is different whether you like it or not. "

                  OK we're going round in circles on this one. Of course they're different. However, the core concepts are fundamentally the same. A Toyota Corolla is not the same care as a Honda Civic. However, they are both cars. They both have 4 wheels and a steering wheel. The both come in a range of colours and have options such as air conditioning and tinted windows. If I bought a Toyota and the dealership handed me the keys to a Honda I'd have a right to be upset, but in terms of their core concept and functionality they are both fundamentally the same item.

                  "BTW if you cant accept Nintendo was first with this concept like everything about your arguments is wrong"

                  Why should I care if they were the first or not. I don't. I assume they're the first, I assume they (to date) have the best solution. My point is simply that it is not presently the only solution, and even if it is currently the best solution it might well not be for long if MS. Sony, Steam or anyone else comes up with a better option. Is it so unexpected that Nintendo's offering will be trumped?

                  http://au.gamespot.com/news/ps4-controller-to-include-lcd-touch-screen-biometric-sensors-6402640

                  "The fact is what sells well IS what matters."

                  Agreed. You could say what sells and what receives continued support.

                  "The fact that something can appeal to more customers IS what makes a product successful."

                  Actually I don't think that's correct. A Ferrari is appealing to most rev-heads, but few can afford to purchase one. A Samsung Galaxy IIS is an appealing phone, but so too is the Galaxy IIIS, as too are mobiles from Sony, LG, Nexus, Motorola. Just because something is appealing does not guarantee success.

                  "You have NO intention of buying a Nintendo product yet you spend so much time on Nintendo related articles."

                  That's not entirely accurate. I own a Wii. My wife owns a DS. I've recently bought a 3DS, although I might give it to someone as a present - haven't opened it yet, haven't decided. But I might keep it. I also own an old stinky DS that someone gave me but i've never used.

                  I have no intention of buying the Wii U right now, given it's price and lack of compelling reason to purchase.

                  I, like many here I imagine, have a technical itch which needs scratching every now and then. Recently my itch has been quite calm. I'm due for a new PC, but can't be bothered getting one right now. If I have problems with my PC I'll run out and get one, but if she keeps behaving herself she'll be fine for now. I'm due for a new mobile shortly. I'll need to go on a new plan and will be entitled to a top of the range smart phone, but i've lost interest. My wife's Galaxy IIIS is better than my IIS, but not by much. They're fundamentally the same. The IIS fulfills my needs, I like it a lot. I just don't need another new one.

                  I've not bought a console (other than the unopened 3DS) since the PS3, so it's been a while. I could justify buying a Wii U. But only if there's a point. I don't see a point. There should be a point. I should be excited for a new console, but I'm not. I might be the same with the PS4 or 720. I suspect that i'll want a PS4 but I suspect that it won't be massively compelling as well.

                  " For someone that doesnt care about Nintendo you occupy alot your time on them"

                  I'm sorry, am I not allowed to do that?

                  "No. I have no interest in those products so i dont need to comment on them"

                  OK, you're mistaken here. Just because I have no interest in buying a Wii U right now, does not mean that I'm not interested in Nintendo or the Wii U. I am perplexed as to why Nintendo have launched such a compelling-less console. I'm interested in how far the disaster of the Wii U will drag Nintendo down. I don't know why I'm interested, I just am. Train-wreck philosophy I should imagine.

                  "That doesnt make me a troll. However, you are the perfect example of one. "

                  That's mean, wrong and pointless.

                  "The only thing i do is dismantle poor anti Nintendo arguments."

                  We disagree.

                  Question is HOW did they mess up. Your opinion is they did. Ok how? Its to weak graphically? Well as i said before when has power determined the best selling console of the generation? Oh thats right it hasnt. So as long as its more powerful then whats come before it is a step up. Should it be more powerful? Of course everyone wants more power but are people willing to pay more for it? Im not so sure. Thats the trade off. How much power is enough. Console makers cant have everything on their consoles, to keep it at a reasonable price. This is what Nintendo feels is the right level. Its obvious you feel different but as past trends have shown Nintendos approach seems sound. I'm sure the execs in sony and microsoft thought that throwing as much power in a console would give them the number one spot in the console wars. It hasnt. Nintendo learned that lesson with the GC. A lesson both sony and microsoft
                  are just now learning.

                  Actually you will be entitled to your opinions if they are based on some facts or evidence to support your opinions. This is what you have failed to do. Anyone can make opinions. Heres one. Sony ps3 cant sell any more console in Feb. Wait a sec, what is that opinion based on. Nothing. So its worthless. Thats my point. You simply said the Nintendo Messed up with the Wii U and nothing to back it up.

                  You can have opinions based on facts if your making an argument. You are very welcomed to do that. Im not gonna sit here and praise everything with the Wii U. Has it got faults yes. Im not going to defend everything Nintendo does either, but what does annoy me is when people simply make unsubstantiated opinion. If Nintendo messed up the power of the console explain why. Not because its how you feel. Look at the market, look at sales. Look at trends. Use that to explain why you feel that way. I wont accept because thats what you feel. If the Wii U was messed up i want you to show me how it is.

                  Please lay off the car analogies. Its not making your case. By that token we could say the ps2 and the ps3 are the same. There not. You dont choose what counts as different. Apply your analogy to anything in the gaming market and everything is the same. 360s the same as an N64. both play games. Thats according to your analogy right. After all cars have 4 wheels.

                  Actually i have always made it clear that Microsoft did something great with kinect. They improved over the Wiimote concept. Also sony popularized the console market to the levels we have today (thanks to ps1 and ps2). I can give credit where credit is due. Something that you arent forthcoming with anything Nintendo does. Of course things can be trumped i dont expect the Gamepad concept to be the be all and end all (i still feel any current offerings by the competition arent to the same level though). Things will always be improved

                  As for your comment on appeal thats partially correct. Of course everyone would like a Ferrari. However the price destroys its over all appeal. I assume price as part of a products appeal. Thats what i mean with the Wii U's appeal. Its an attempt at juggling Price, features and power within a Price range. Have they juggled correctly? Ask me in 5 years for something definitive.

                  So you have a Wii and a DS. I was wrong. I assumed that you dont own or intend to own any Nintendo products. Its not difficult to to find people disappointed with the Wii and have second thoughts on the Wii U. Thats understandable. Maybe thats how you feel. My problem is that your giving it Absolutely NO chance to prove itself. Your writing it off after a few months. That just baffles me. If in 1 to 2 years things are like this for the Wii U i'll happily call it dead. But not 2 months in. To me that screamed of trolling. If you had no intention of this then my apologies. Is the Wii U compelling now. I agree not so much. Decent launch but no real exclusives. I see low sales and i think well duh, Not much games coming out since launch. But if and when they come im sure things will improve. Look at the 3DS it struggled early on with a high price and small games library. Look at it now. The Wii U can emulate that too if it follows what the 3DS did. Any console can. With more console sales more comes more developers wanting to make games - which means more possibilities especially with the gamepad. While the other 2 next gen consoles can look to the possibilities of higher end graphics, the Wii U will try to focus on the possibilities the Wii U's gamepad can achieve. But it always takes time, time to evolve and prove itself. When you deny it a chance to do that, sorry that kind of makes me wonder what your real motives for commenting. Is it really to point out the misteps of Nintendo or merely to trash talk them.

                  Anyway i've said my peace. You may not agree with the Wii U but if you are a reasonable person give it time, i dont expect you to own one. But don't write it off before we see the full potential of the system.

      To be fair, we have seen nothing of nextbox and PS4, and until we do it is silly to make such judgements. There is no telling that it will be like Wii/PS3/Xbox situation again. Seeing as they will all be relatively similar graphics wise it is quite unlikely this similar situation will occur.

        Hulk, the new consoles are already fairly heavily rumoured to be 8x as powerful as the current iteration. The Wii U is roughly around 1.2x as powerful (if that).

        When I can feel my head and shoulders getting damp, I don't need to see a weather forecast before I know it's raining.

          Perhaps you should see a doctor. Excessive sweating can be a serious matter. Or entertain yourself less vigorously.

          How much will 8x the power cost?

          $1000+? Not many people pay $1000 for a console.

          With no concrete details of the Next gen, we can't say what they'll do. A cheap but more somewhat powerful model like Nintendo or a go for broke OMG it costs a fortune machine. Honestly I think the companies have one of each and will try and feel out what the other does.

          Edit: I see myself owning the Next-Box and the Wii U. Sony would have to release one hell of a machine to tempt me away.

          Last edited 18/01/13 1:15 pm

            I've read articles suggesting $4 to $500 USD. Or less.

            $500 AUD will be tempting for me. $400 hard to resist. $300 virtually impossible to resist.

            If it is on the high end, $600, I'll quite comfortably let it pass. Well, that's a lie. I won't be at all comfortable about it but I'll let it pass none the less.

              I'd expect the new Sony / MS machines to be somewhere in the vicinity of AU$700 when they launch here. Although they may have cheaper / more expensive variants depending what they do with storage capacity etc. They won't be anywhere near the $1,000 that PS3 launched at, mainly because (a) BluRay is no longer brand new technology, it's now dirt cheap and (b) they're both using pretty much off-the-shelf hardware so you're not paying for a lot of R&D on custom technology like the Cell.

              Whether I actually pay that or wait for a price cut would depend on if there are any irresistible games that I just can't wait for (and also what's left to look forward to on the older machines). But I've never bought a console at launch, I generally like to wait 6 months or so to see how they go in terms of games, firmware / hardware issues, etc. Let the launch-period buzz die down and wait to see what people's impressions are after they've lived with it for a few months and the thrill of the new has faded a bit.

                Yep. I wont pay $100 for a game so there's no point for me to buy at launch. Besides, I have far too many PS3 games to keep me occupied for now. Also, I want to get a relatively small unit. The phat PS3 was too big for my liking, I was much happier to jump in at the point of the Slims release - for the cost, size, and looks.

            I wouldn't expect 8x the power to cost too much at all to be entirely honest. You need to remember that the consoles we are comparing the rumoured specs to are around 6 to 7 years old, technology has come in leaps and bounds since then and as such with each passing technology, the previous tech gets cheaper.

            It would not be surprising to estimate that current top of the line PC would have around 20 times the power of the 360 and PS3, hell the RAM in my PC right now is 16 times the amount the PS3 and 360 have in them and my PC is middle of the road at best.

            My estimate would put the Next Gen Sony and Microsoft consoles within striking distance of the Premium Wii U set, around $450-500AUS. Sony learnt their lesson from the abysmal PS3 launch and know not to price themselves too high out of the market, they showed this fact with the launch price of the PS Vita and Microsoft would have to be foolish not to have taken note from Sony's launch debaucle.

            Regardless if something drastic doesn't happen from the Big N fairly soon, they could very well find themselves in a world of hurt come this time next year.

              The ps3 was about 8x more powerful then the previous gen, and it cost sony estimated $900 to make and they sold it for $600.

              If we are to expect the ps4 to be 8x more powerful then the ps3 why is it gonna cost less then the ps3 did for sony back then?

                The main reasons the PS3 was so expensive were BluRay and the Cell / RSX. Back in 2006 BluRay was brand new, expensive technology. In 2013 its established, cheap, mass market technology. So that's a big cost saving there. Secondly, they've going with off-the-shelf CPU and GPU solutions instead of creating their own which saves them a fortune in R&D by not having to develop new ones.

                  Thats still a rumour. Lets wait till we get official specs before we start talking about the next consoles. Its nice to dream what it will be. True there is no cell or blu ray costs to inflate the price but like i said, sony is hurting, they cant absorb the costs like they did before.

          Dont take rumours for facts. No one knows the true power of the Wii U and we sure as hell dont know squat about the next xbox or playstation.

            I used the word rumours deliberately to indicate that they weren't facts. Such is the power of words.

            That being said, if you honestly think they will be in the same ball park as the Wii U in terms of capability, I have an invisible horse I would like to sell you.

      I'll buy this for Zelda, Super Smash and Mario Kart just like I did with the Wii.

      Many people are in the same boat I would imagine.

        Many die-hard Nintendo fans yes. Not many casuals. Not many non die-hard Nintendo fan core gamers. In the grand scheme of things.

        And personally I don't think a price drop will help. $349 AUD is dreadfully reasonable, it's unheard of for a "next gen" console. If I had any excitement for this machine I'd have buckled and bought one already, especially when you consider that it uses Wii controllers and accessories, is compliant with an external hard drive (I have many), and I think is backwards compatible if we did want to stink up our screen with SD graphics.

        But at $199 the question would remain, why buy it? Why not just be happy with the PS3, PC, DS, PSP, Wii, Android systems that I already have.

        The PS4 and 720 will be giving me a reason to upgrade. Significant graphics boost. New round of game engines providing new level of graphics and gameplay. Enhanced internet, cloud services, continuation of PSN+. There are reasons to buy a next gen console. They may not be compelling enough for me at the release date, but there are reasons.

        The Wii U doesn't really offer me, or my wife, or many, many others a reason to buy it. Even at $199.

          I wouldn't consider myself a "die hard" nintendo fan just because I want to play 3 games...

          I would consider myself a "person with a decent income who can afford to play the games I enjoy".

          I really feel like you are painting a picture of a one console world, which simply isn't true. Yes, I'll love the PS4 and Xbox720 - but that doesn't mean I'll never buy another console ever again.

          The reasons to buy the Wii U are the platform specific games. Same as the reason to buy an xbox or a ps3.

          I mean, if you are only picking one platform to live by you may as well play PC and get out of the console race all together. They have the most exclusives and are the best value for money which seem to be what you are looking for.

            I, personally, would consider you a die-hard Nintendo fan if, as you've said you are willing to purchase a console solely on the basis of a handful of Nintendo exclusive titles.

            I wouldn't buy a Sony product just for 3 games. No, no, no. I could afford to, but I'd view it as a massive waste of money and wouldn't allow myself to purchase it. I personally buy Sony products because of the dozens (or hundreds) of games, exclusive or otherwise, that I want to play on it.

            Hmmm, I'm not quite sure if I agree or disagree with your one console world comments.

            I don't think I am painting a picture of a one console world. I own more than one console. Many do. In fact I think it's quite inevitable. I could have kept my PS1 and PS2 in a box but chose to pass them on. I think most will graduate from one console to another at some stage.

            On the other hand, I do think that most of us will make purchases (of consoles or really any high end item) on the basis of the utility it would provide. I don't own a PS3 and a 360. For me, the handful of 360 exclusives that I do want to play does not justify the costs involved - and I don't have the space available next to my TV. I don't think my situation is at all uncommon. I think most console purchasers will buy 1 console per generation. For me the Wii was an exception to the rule as it was released at a much lower cost than the PS3 was. If the PS3 was only marginally more expensive then I wouldn't have felt the need to wait for a price drop and would have probably skipped the Wii altogether. But then we live and learn.

            Yes, I do look for value for money, as do most people. For me I still prefer the console experience over the PC experience. I am overdue for a new notebook. I could spend $2,000 or more on one, but I don't have any need to . My 3, or maybe 4, year old Vostro is still ticking along perfectly fine. Of course I don't even try to play newly released games on it - even if it could technically handle them it would massively overheat. And I'm not going to spend $2k just so that I have to buy a new set of Office and have the fun of re-installing, getting to know a new OS and having lots of fun with driver incompatibility. No thanks. Nope for me the console world is perfectly fine, and for me, despite my ownership to the contrary, it largely is a one console world. For now.

              Once again, I doubt your definition of a die-hard nintendo fan.

              Call me a zelda fan. Call me a super smash fan. But not a nintendo fan.

              I dislike their business practices, find them shortsighted and underambitious and generally a low-key player. But I'm not the kind of guy who misses out on franchises out of some kind of moral tirade against a companies greater faults.

              I own a PS3 and an Xbox, but that doesnt make me a "die-hard Sony fan". Not by a longshot.

              I'll buy 90% of my games on xbox. But I will buy the other 10 where i can. "die-hard nintendo fan" sounds like I'm putting them on a pedestal, when realistically they are the weakest player in the market. I just know they do certain games which I enjoy well. And I have the means to buy those games.

                Yes, I mean no offense but I do think we're talking semantics here. In terms of buying their consoles, I would consider you a die-hard fan. You're willing to purchase on what I would say is not very much. In terms of being a fan of Nintendo, or in terms of an exclusive devotion to Nintendo, clearly you are not.

                  It was kind of an exercise in semantics to begin with. I put forward that people were probably waiting for the mainline franchises to hit the shelves before buying. You put forward that only "die-hard" fans would buy the console for those key games. I argue what a die-hard fan is, since I know (subjective evidence ftw) lots of people who will fork out for those games but wont give nintendo a dime before seeing them. You put forward that isn't the case for "casual" gamers (although in my experience that is exactly the audience willing to chase nintendo franchises from console to console).

                  Tomayto tomato.

            I consider myself a die-hard Nintendo fan and i can only think of a handful of franchises i'd want on theWiiU.
            The days of high level 2nd party exclusives on Nintendo consoles went out the window when Rare was sold to Microsoft. It's Mario, Metroid and Zelda as system sellers and thats it.

            I've owned a Wii since day one, I can honestly say the only games i've truly loved on it were the two Mario Galaxy games. Even the two Zelda games were massivley underwelming if you compare them to the 2 the N64 got or to Wind Waker.

            The next Zelda game won't be out until mid-2014 at least. Given the gameplay/ story will probably revolve arond the usual formula (get something from the forest dungeon, get something from the lava dungeon.... get something from the water dungeon) it's going to take something pretty special given it's going to look ancient next to games like Watch Dogs and Star Wars 1313 which will be out by then.

            Given that there is undoubtedly some pretty epic new games to be announced as launch games for the PS4/ Xbox 720 at the end of next year, why would you fork out for a WiiU now with no decent games on the horizon? It's not like the 360 and PS3 are going to be strapped for top quality titles over the next 6 months (most of which the WiiU isn't getting). After that all the major developers will be focused on the real next-gen consoles, if Nintendo doesn't give people a good reason to buy the WiiU NOW then they aren't even going to get the shitty nerfed ports of Xbox/PS games that the Wii got.

            I could afford one if I wanted but i'm still going to be saving my dollars (and cupboard space) for the new consoles at the end of the year.

            At least the 3DS lineup for 2013 looks great!

              Alot of people are assuming the next playstation and the next xbox are just gonna fly off the shelves but what are you basing this on? It will have better graphics ? Yes they will but when in the history of consoles has that ensured a console to be the no1 selling console? Never. So despite them being powerful theres no guarantee that will make them sell more consoles then the Wii U. Also look at the 360 and ps3 launches. Both consoles were significantly more powerful then the generation before yet both console were significantly outsold by the graphically weaker Wii. Also lets not forget the financial ramifications of creating an uber console - Massive debts that take 10 years to pay off plus strong competition in the form of tablets which casual gamers are turning to more and more (they dont have high end graphics either i might add).

              Yes i expect the ps4 and 720 to be more powerful but what will that mean? IMO nothing. It hasnt before i dont things will change. The Wii U will have the advantage of a headstart and by the time of release of the ps4 and 720 the Wii U should be around 10million. Compare that to the launch numbers of the ps4 and 720 and the Wii U will be a pretty appealing console for thirdparty developers.

              It wont be easy and Nintendo need to get there finger out but im sure the Wii U should continue Nintendos trend of being the number one selling console. That is unless sony or microsoft can pull off something like the Wii did when it launched (i dont see that happening)

                "The Wii U will have the advantage of a headstart and by the time of release of the ps4 and 720 the Wii U should be around 10million. Compare that to the launch numbers of the ps4 and 720 and the Wii U will be a pretty appealing console for thirdparty developers."

                By that logic, the Wii should still be a pretty appealing console for 3rd party developers to this day, since it's still about 20m units up on both the 360 and PS3. But the fact is that 3rd party support for the Wii has been lacklustre at best.

                  As i have mentioned time and time again. The Wii was following on from the GC which most developers had pretty much given up on. Do you think developers would be so eager to jump on the Wii Bandwagon after Nintendos previous console was last place? I dont think so. Also alot of developers would not be so keen to invest in developing games utilizing motion controls which at the time was new and no one had imagined it to be such a success which it eventually was.

                  The Wii U on the other had is following on from the Wii Which was a massive success and the number 1 selling console.

                  Thats 2 different circumstances right there. You cannot put them all in the same category.

                  Yes the Wiis third party support was weak, but what the Wii did was prove Nintendo was still relevant in the console market.

                I personally don't think the PS4 or 720 will have gangbuster sales. I think they'd do well to be close to what they've sold this generation. But I think they're significantly less likely to have the weak sales that I see as being inevitable for Nintendo. If PS4/720 do badly, which they might, the Wii U will do worse - and I suspect much worse.

                Why? Because Nintendo have lost core gamers, apart from die hard Nintendo fans. Core gamers currently own a 360, PS3, PC, or more than one, and are much more likely to be aniticipating the next generatin of consoles or PC. I don't see who the Wii U is targeting.

                Last edited 18/01/13 6:20 pm

                  The only reason why the lost the core gamers is because they lost all the AAA third party titles. If they can get a significant portion back they can make serious inroads in the core gaming market. Add to that new gaming experience that the gamepad can offer there is alot of potential for the Wii U. So far its not been great but in the next few months there will be alot more games and hopefully games made exclusively for the Wii U.

                  Core gamers arent fanboy nuts, they go were the games are. And if the Wii U can give them the games they want they will have no hesitation in getting a Wii U (or any console that gives them the games and experiences they desire for that matter).

                  Thats the bottom line.

          You dont think a price drop will help? Your dreaming. A price drop helped the struggling 3DS outsell its predecessor. Its well on its way to 30million sold worldwide if not more. If Nintendo dropped the Wii Us price (make the deluxe the only version and sell it for the same price as the Wii U Basic) and launched more games it will sell strongly. I dont know what your smoking with that comment.

          Obviously the Wii U has yet to fully prove itself. But there is plenty of room of improvement. The ps3 has reached its peak already, the Wii U has alote of room to grow and evolve. PCs will always remain the Epitome of gaming graphics (love how you like to add anything to your argument), DS and PSP will remain strong portable gaming (but cant match ps3/360/Wii U graphics - thats why you wont get a straight port of blackops 2 or assassins creed on the vita) But they cant do what the Wii U can do. Can the Vita play a full version of blackops 2? No it cant. Its got the shitty version. So no it cant do what the Wii U can do. Tablets are even lower then that. They will always remain the casual favourite. But for the big budget games and titles tablets cant do it. Thats why we have consoles. For the fuller experiences. Tablets cant do that.

          Yeah yeah after your constant anti nintendo nonsense does it surprise anyone your only interested in ps4 or 720. Please. Graphics boost sure but were not sure how much. If they want to keep the price low it wont be as large as you hoped, considering both companies have yet to pay of the debts both 360 and ps3 have accrued through its life time (and now they have to pay the massive R&D costs of the ps4 and 720, which has to come out of there own pockets and not the profits of the 360 and ps3) im not sure they want another dose of that, especially in a crappy world economy and strong competition from tablets. You think graphics equals number one selling console? Where in the history of consoles has that happened in the last 10 to 15 years? Where? Having the best graphics wont mean a console will sell the most. Just look at the ps3 - still hasnt outsold the Wii and wont. Its funny you harp on about graphics when in reality it hasnt been the main factor in console sales.

          The Wii U doesn't really offer YOU and anti Nintendo fan anything. Of course its not for everyone but if you were trying to come up with a convincing argument you failed like always.

            The only reason the Vita could not play a console version of CoD:BO2 is because Activision was retarded and gave the development of said game to Nihilistic Studios, the people behind the horribly mediocre Resistance: Burning Skies and somehow managed to outdo themselves by making Black Ops: Declassified even worse.

            The blame for that travesty falls solely on the backs of Nihilistic who made the abomination (who have went on to change their name to nStigate and move focus to the mobile market) and Activision who decided to go with them against better judgement. I can only assume that upcoming Vita FPS, such as Killzone: Mercenary will play very similar to the franchise's console counterparts, mostly due to the fact that said game is being made by the same developer.

            Last edited 18/01/13 6:09 pm

              No thats not the reason. It just cant handle full Ps3 games. What about Assassin Creed on Vita? Why arent they straight ports? Its because handhelds just cant handle it. Not saying the Vita is weak Its not. Its probably the most powerful portable out there however its still not a real portable ps3.

                From what I understand about Assassins Creed III: Liberation it was generally well recieved. (according to Metacritic) Regardless the whole 'like a portable PS3' is a marketing gimmick, like like how the PSP before it was marketed as a portable PS2, like how Super Mario 64 DS was released alongside the DS to show the handheld could run Nintendo 64 games. Of course after that we didn't see a 3D Mario title on a Nintendo handheld until 3D Land for the 3DS, and only a handful of DS titles (such as Phantasy Star Zero) were made that I could say looked like N64 games.

                I would be quite surprised if there are people out there who bought a Vita expecting console quality gaming on the go, especially since that old chestnut has been used for eons now and insofar no company has really been able to prove it consistently, I feel the Vita still has a lot of potenial (I am eagerly awaiting the launch of PSO2 for it) but expecting a portable PS3 is not something I expect nor ever expected from it.

                  People have been saying that the ps3/vita combo matches exactly what the Wii U can do. It cant. The vita cant play the ps3 version of blackops or assassins creed or any ps3 game for that matter. The gamepad can play any and all Wii U game (off tv play). Which was my point. The Wii U gamepad concept cant be matched by ps3/vita or 360/smartglass. Close maybe but not equal.

                  You're making unfair comparisons, The Vita can't play the PS3 version of Black Ops 2 and Assassins Creed 3 because they already had Vita specific ports in the works, whether or not said ports did well or atrociously is irrelevant, Developers weren't about to attempt to compete with themselves by having the PS Vita play both a streamed PS3 version and a PS Vita specific version.

                  As for the Vita stream tech in general, we're unsure of that. You say the Vita can't play any PS3 titles, the fact is Sony hasn't directly tried to. The Vita was not developed with being a competitor to the Wii U in mind, it was developed to be competition to Nintendo's next handheld, the 3DS. The fact is the VIta does have some limited form of cross streaming compatability with the PS3, however the service is quite limited at the moment. What it is being limited by, whether it be hardware limitations for the Vita or merely Sony's disinterest in turning the Vita into a makeshift PS3 controller, is yet to be seen.

                  No, The reason why it cant be as good is because the Wii U was designed to stream content directly from the console to the gamepad. The whole console was built around this concept. The ps3 (and probably the ps4) Isnt. Thats the difference. The connection so good and quick Ubisoft has stated that it will take some time for competitors to match the low latency connection that the Wii U and gamepad has. Your right the vita was not designed primarily for ps3 games streaming. Thats exactly why it cant match the Wii U. Also the fragmentation caused because not all ps3/ps4 owners will own a vita. Smartglass doesnt even come into the equation here.

                  I'm not going to argue that streaming capacity for a handheld console is better than a console with a controller designed with that function solely in mind, thats a losing battle on my part (plus we can no longer reply to one another in this conversation line)

                  The PS Vita doesn't need to have that feature, what the PS Vita needs right now is decent games that emphasise all the things the device does right, once Sony is able to get that down then maybe they can look into a streaming feature. I doubt such a feature would ever be able to match the Wii U controller, but as a throwaway feature it might be useful.

                  The Vitas advantage is its a full blown portable. The Gamepad is not. Its not like the Vita doesnt have its own advantages!

    They just rushed the console release for christmas , they will be fine when the games start coming.
    It's getting lots of dust at the moment though, just like my xbox and PC.

    not too late to give it a quick redesign in the hardware department, and have a console relaunch.. give the people who already purchased a refund, cut your losses then make massive profits with a decent console with good specs.

      Full refunds on millions of consoles? Then quickly make a new console and ship it. Seriously WTF ???

      I'm not sure what planet you are from but I would dearly like to visit it.

      Otherwise, give me a puff of what you are smoking. Sharing is caring.

      Well they can hardly release a "slim" version. They've also used the "new colour" trick on day one. They'll have to think of something new. Maybe give the console dual analogue sticks? Oh they did that this time. My, haven't they done well.

      Last edited 18/01/13 1:06 pm

      No they just need to make more games and Wii U specific games. They dont need to do something as silly as your suggesting

      It was a poke at Nintendo a joke... what am i smoking?
      What are they putting in your water? go back to facebook where you live.

    Everyone always with the doom and gloom. I can't remember a platform where the first year WASN'T slow.

      Yeah but with every other console it offered something. The Sega Saturn was a significant technological advancement on Sega's previous consoles and was a serious competitor for its contemporaries. It failed in terms of sales but not in terms of being a viable machine.

      What's the Wii U? Many of us still haven't figured out if it's a current or next gen machine.

      Imagine if Blackberry was trying to recoup its previous market leading position by releasing what they considered a ground breaking mobile that was roughly equivalent to what Apple had released 5 years earlier. It just wouldn't work. It would be doomed for failure.

        Here you go again with your Wii U offers nothing BS you keep peddling. Your worse then a broken record and always wrong. You will see a competitors products as revolutionary and anything Nintendo as garbage. Your as blind as blind can be and as Anti Nintendo as the worst trolls. Failed in terms of sales? WTF. IF thats your definition of failed how do you define ps3 and 360 launches which sold even less then the Wii U? Cant answer hypocrite

        Why should we care if an anti Nintendo fan cant figure out what the Wii U is?

        Love the meaningless (i know what your trying but you failed hard like always) last paragraph. You've got no idea.

          BS? What does the Wii U offer over the PS3 or 360?

          Better graphics? Marginally

          Better control system? Hmmm, you could argue that. Some would agree, others wouldn't.

          Better games? Hmmm, you could argue that. Some would agree, others wouldn't.

          Better price? Hmmm, you could argue that. Some would agree, others wouldn't.

          Better internet experience and associated services? No.

          If someone took away my PS3 and all my games and accessories, and PSN+ subscription. Gave me $400 and said go buy a console today, which one would I get?

          I wouldn't get the 360, I don't see it as better than a PS3. I might get the Wii U, because it's shinier, and new, but then I think I'd probably get the PS3 because I know and enjoy Sony products so much, and IF the Wii U is better than the PS3 it is not significantly better.

          The newly released console should win hands down over a 6, 7 year old competitor. But it doesn't. It's hard to know if it wins at all. And compared to Sony's and Microsofts next offerings I think we can all be sure that the Wii U will lose.

            I can answer this (for myself anyway) because I own a PS3/360 and a Wii U.

            Better Graphics: Wii U can display 1080p natively while 360/PS3 can only run 720p. However I've noticed next to no difference between the graphics quality of the consoles on my TV.

            Better Control System: Depends on how developers want to use the gamepad, some games like ZombiU can be frustrating by constantly forcing you to look between the TV and the Gamepad (some people might call this a feature due to it being a horror game, but it didn't scare me, it annoyed me.) some might use it for novel features like Sega putting the track map on it during All-Stars Racing Transformed which is good for brief glimpses, and others can just phone it the f*ck in like Nintendo did with New Super Mario Bros U.

            Better Games: As of this moment most games appear to be either ports from PS3/360, Minigame compilations, shovelware or shameless cash grabs, there are some diamonds in the rough but they appear to be few and far between.

            Better Price: Can't make an assumption yet, it's unfair to compare the console to the 7 year old PS3 and 360 consoles, I'll reserve my opinion on price until we have concrete evidence of the price of the new gen Sony and Microsoft consoles compared to their specs.

            Better internet experience: Best Internet experience on a Nintendo console hands down, how much that amounts to anything. . . not too sure. Xbox Live and PSN are always going to be ahead of Nintendo here simply because of Nintendo's stubborn refusal to acknowledge Internet Services with the Wii. It also does not help that we live down in Australia, a place Nintendo is renowned for not really caring about at all. I am fully expecting after the release of Nintendo TVii in Europe we will be given an update that will remove the Nintendo TVii icon from the home screen entirely. As for the other features such as Netflix and Hulu, not really Nintendo's fault but we won't be seeing those either. Xbox Live and PSN+ will always have a more alluring product in the end, especially PSN+ with its promise of free games and the sheer dependability due to longevity of Xbox Live. The only thing I could say Nintendo has going for it internet wise is the fact that it probably the safest online environment out of the three.

            Take this as you will, it is my opinion only, however I cannot fully say my experience with the Wii U so far has filled me with hope for the console.

              Actually the always there map is an awesome feature onto itself. No more having to go to the menu simply to look at maps. I can always have an idea where im going easily and efficiently with the Gamepad displaying maps. I found it helped alot when i wanted to know where the Zombies are in ZombiU. Considering they are hard to kill and you dont have alot of bullets having that map always there is a godsend. I Know for many its hard to get used to having the map on screen to having to get used to it being always there on the gamepad but once you get used to it you wonder how you ever played with out an always on map.

                To be entirely honest, ZombiU is not the worse usage of the Wii U Gamepad currently available, and I would argue to a degree that it is one of the better usages mainly because it attempts to make using the gamepad a core part of the gameplay.

                  I'm not convinced that having maps, in particular regard to racing games, is beneficial to the overall gaming experience.

                  Learning race tracks is part of the challenge. Virtually all racers will have a map of some kind on screen - be it a translucent sector or the whole thing. I can't imagine a whole screen of a map offering a significant difference to the gaming experience, and even if it does, it strikes me as pretty trivial. We don't play games to look at maps. I certainly don't.

                  If Nintendo releases "Map Watcher U" I want credit.

                  Last edited 18/01/13 11:39 pm

                  I get what you're saying, however I have to concede it is early days, most of the potential for the tablet controller most likely hasn't been utilised yet. That being said I admit the game with the best use of the tablet so far has to be NintendoLand, which isn't surprising since the whole premise of said game is to show you various ways the controller can be used.

                  No prizes for guessing what game has the worst usage. . .

              Thanks Ruen. To be clear, I was comparing the Wii U to a PS3 or 360, and not the next gen. I think a price comparison is fair and relevant. Afterall, right now the Wii U is competing head on with PS3 and 360 and trying to capture the core market, most of which will likely own one of the two (or both).

              Here are JB Hifi's prices (Australian store, Australian Dollars) - oh we're on an Austrlian site aren't we

              PS 3 (Super slim, 12gb) $249
              PS3 (Super slim, 500gb) $389

              Xbox 360 S, 4gb $194
              Xbox 360, 250gb bundle (2 games) $288
              Xbox 360, 250gb + Kinect $388

              Wii U Basic $348
              Wii U Premium $428

              and just for laughs

              Wii $188

              So yes, the Wii U is the most expensive (so it loses on that count too), but it's not much more expensive than the better PS3 and 360 options - although to be accurate those options do come with far more built in hard drive space.

              I should imagine that compared to the PS4/720 the Wii U will be cheaper, but then it should be given that it barely competes with the out-going gen.

              I didn't quite understand your comment about removing the TVIi icon - I don't care about that myself but maybe some others might want to know what you mean.

                Nintendo TVii is a little red TV icon on the Wii U menu screen, basically it is supposed to consolodate the user's entire television set up (be it free to air and pay tv, i'm not sure on the specifics) as well as implement features similar to that or a DVR such as the ability to record and pause live TV, etc.

                The feature I assume was supposed to be available out of the box, which it was for it's Japanese launch, however certain issues stopped it from being available anywhere for the Western release, so people were given a red TV icon that you couldn't use. Nintendo indicated that they were working towards releasing the service to the western market, and as far as I am aware, the American release of the service was released not soon after the Japanese launch, however Nintendo stated the launch for the European market would be pushed back to 2013.

                Most people assume that Australia might get lumped in with the European market, however I kinda doubt this, these sort of services I would assume would need to be personalised for individual countries or at least regions, and the sad fact of the matter is Nintendo is renowned for literally not being able to care less about the Australian market (want proof, go to Club Nintendo) I highly doubt Nintendo would care enough to go through the hassle to jump through the hoops neccessary to release down here, they'd most likely just release a patch to remove the icon from consoles down here and be done with it, to hell with the Australian market.

                  Oh, that's a shame (if it gets removed for Australia).

            The Wii U already offers something the ps3 and 360 cant. The Gamepad. No the vita cant match what the Wii U can do. It comes close but its not exactly the same (Blackops 2 off screen play on Gamepad is better then Blackops 2 for Vita). Smartglass doesnt come close. And we havent seen the limits of what the gamepad can do.

            Better graphics YES, it hasnt even been really tested yet. Games built for the Wii U will really outshine ps3 and 360. Ports especially launch ports will not showcase the full potential of the system

            Better controls YES, it gives you a whole slew of control options at your finger tips. Not much heavier then a standard controller. It has the controls the other consoles have and more

            Better games NOT YET. It still has along way to go to prove itself but its a decent start

            Better Price Its a good price and has room to go down when the next consoles hit

            Better Internet NOT YET. Its a decent service and its free. Not bad but obviously not the best

            Is it worth buying now? NO not for everyone. It still needs alot more Wii U games and games that show of the gamepad. So far ZombiU is a great first effort (and freakin hard). It always sucks to be an early adopter but so far i've had alot of fun and i still have alot more game to go through. For the average gamer its best to wait. But thats not to say the potential for the future is not there. It is and there is alot of it.

            Dont forget my Wii U or any console for that matter plays second fiddle to my PC. I have over 300 steam games to get through. It will always be like this for me. However Im most excited to see what they did with the Wii U version of Aliens. If they do that right i will feel alot better about the direction Nintendo went with the Wii U. The developers themselves said its the best version so that to me is promising. If i can get something different then the Wii U is worth it for me.

            Its a tough gaming market now and graphics will have less and less impact as tablet gaming grows. Affordability will be key. People like cheap games. Thats why tablets are so popular. Developers cant all be developing multimillion dollar budget AAA titles. Thats why the Wii U's just enough approach is important. The Graphics will just be enough to outshine whats come before, and the gamepad SHOULD (it hasnt yet) be the difference between it and other gaming platforms. That is the key.

            For now the software drought is here but i think the games will arrive quicker then it did for the WIi during its launch window. Its not something unique to Nintendos consoles but all launch consoles.

    "Better graphics YES, it hasnt even been really tested yet. "

    Well, Terrak, it has. The Wii U has launched. People have bought it. Games have been launched too. People have played them. Whilst connected to TV's. And the verdict is in.

    "Games built for the Wii U will really outshine ps3 and 360."

    Zombi U was built for the Wii U. So was Mass Effect 3 Wii U version. It's not about full potential of the system. It's about games that are available on the market.

    "Better controls YES"

    Some disagree. Perhaps even the majority.

    "Better Internet NOT YET"

    Is another way of saying no. Why should it be so obvious that it's not the best? It's a new console. It should be better than ageing consoles. It should be much better. But it's not. From what you and others say it seems to be much worse. For now. Maybe that will change. Maybe it won't. Still it was only launched this week so give it some time. Oh hang on, this month? No, last month? Give it a couple of years and it should approach what we have available to us now on our existing systems.

    "Is it worth buying now? NO not for everyone. It still needs alot more Wii U games and games that show of the gamepad."

    We do agree on some things afterall. It also needs something far, far more enticing than the gamepad and a marginal improvement of graphics.

    "so far i've had alot of fun "

    Good. And so you should, having just forked over $500, $600, $800 (?) of your hard earned.

    Games consoles are not new. They should be fun. They really ought to have sorted that aspect out by now. Nintendo deal in fun. They all do. Giving fun for $800 in itself isn't worthy of praise.

    I agree with you about Aliens - I think we should all expect that to be a quality title - I'm not overly interested myself, never been into Aliens and have plenty of FPSs already. I'll wait for that to drop to $20 for sure. Another reason for me not to rush out and buy a Wii U. But I digest.

    I agree with you about graphics, to an extent. CES is all about $20,000 84 inch 4k screens. That won't fit on my desk. I'd have no use for one. Yes of course, some day we'll all have TV Walls ala Back to the Future 3 but personally I don't feel the need to rush there. I grew up on 20" CRTs so my 42" Plasma suits me just fine. Sure I could spend $2,000 and get a slimmer one, but then it's a TV, not a super model, But yes if we look at Watch Dogs and 1313 and the new MSG one(s), which I think we'll see more and more of over the coming months, to me they don't look compelling. They have better "goo" - the rain is better, the explosions, the fire - all better. But the character is still a G.I. Joe action figure. You'll still press X to punch, O to kick. Same deal, new nappies.

    "Thats why the Wii U's just enough approach is important. "

    I think you're right, but wrong. Cheap is the way forward. If I look out into the world, it seems to be that way for many, but not all, things. Cars are falling in price. Housing is softening. Retail is collapsing. Games are free or 2 cents. AAA are released for $69, fall to $29 within a few months. People don't want to spend money.

    That's why the Wii U needs to be compelling, which it isn't.

    Making the Wii U affordable, which it is (very much so), is a smart move, but they forgot to make it compelling.

    I think the PS4/720 might fall into the same trap. I think (on the basis of articles that i've read) that they will be cheaper than the cost of launch for the PS3/360. But I do wonder how much cheaper they can be, especially when we add good old Aussie Import Cost of Business BS Tax on to that.

    If the PS3 is still sold today for $389, will the PS4 be sold for $400? Even if in a gimped form? I can't see it. I think we might well be heading back to $600, $700, $800 territory. And surely they will have non gimped SKUs available at a higher price. OK, $1,000 is too much, but it pretty much guarantees that one option, or bundle or other will be around the $800 mark - if it's launched within 12 months from now and subject to Aussie price hike tax.

    And if that's the case, who will buy it? It'll be the same disaster that the Wii U is, only not quite as bad.

    I think we should probably all face up to the fact that F2P and iOS/Android have pretty much destroyed the console business model. Sony and Microsoft will need our love or they'll go the way of Nintendo.

      'Well, Terrak, it has. The Wii U has launched. People have bought it. Games have been launched too. People have played them. Whilst connected to TV's. And the verdict is in.'

      This is complete and utter nonsense. Let me repeat to you Launch titles are NEVER the best a console has to offer. N E V E R. I dont know what universe you live in but its not the reality as everyone knows it. Randy Pitchford of Gearbox has already stated that the Wii U is more powerful console available now and the Wii U version of Aliens will be the best version and as he has actual hands on and worked with the console HE would know. ZombiU is simply a 'rushed' launch title that was trying new elements with the gamepad . It happens at all launches. But your selective memory only applies this to Nintendos consoles. Was Kameos Graphics the best the 360 could do when it launch? No. We have a 720p Halo 4 out now, after 7 years of the consoles life. But according to your nonsense all consoles display the best the console has to offer at launch. Please return when you start to make sense.

      'Zombi U was built for the Wii U. So was Mass Effect 3 Wii U version. It's not about full potential of the system. It's about games that are available on the market. '

      ZombiU was made for the Wii U but it started its life as a totally different game - Killer freaks from outerspace

      http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2012/12/developer_interview_zombiu_producer_talks_about_beginnings_reactions_and_survival_horror

      so the game changed around 2012 so like i said the game was not given the time to fully perfect, also its a new console so the developers would not had enough time to get the most out of it.

      As i mentioned before its a launch title. Launch titles are usually on the lower end of the full capabilities of any console. This fact seems to have missed you completely. If you are so convinced that launch titles are the epitome of what any console is capable of PROVE IT. Link to me to launch games that have out done games 2 or more years in a consoles lifecycle. If you CANNOT. Then your argument is completely and utterly INVALID.

      'Some disagree. Perhaps even the majority. '

      Your evidence? NONE as usually. Go to youtube and find the 2011/2012 e3 vids from Nintendos conference where some thirdparty developers talked about the Wii UGamepad. All were glowing of it. If you can not LINK me thirdparty developers claiming the gamepad controls are worse then current console controllers then this argument too is INVALID. When did your opinion count as majority? how about Never.

      'Games consoles are not new. They should be fun. They really ought to have sorted that aspect out by now. Nintendo deal in fun. They all do. Giving fun for $800 in itself isn't worthy of praise. '

      $800? i've bought the deluxe console and 5 games (6 including Nintendo Land) for around $650. Thats better then ps3 owners got for $650 (barely paid for the console let alone games). Your criticizing Nintendo for a problem that all consoles have? Dont You have the ps3 a console that started off at prices upto $1000 yet you have the audacity to call out Nintendo? Ridiculous. Utterly Ridiculous. If your gonna make an argument against Nintendo atleast make sure its something that is a problem with Nintendo only. If its not a problem with Nintendo only and is the same problem for all consoles why are you even bringing it up?

      Im not going to go into whether you like Aliens Colonial marines thats up to personal preferences.

      As for your argument about 4k monitors - Not sure where you were going with this. 4k monitors wont be consumer level priced for a long time so 1080p will remain the standard for the next 3-4 years atleast. That means the Wii U should remain relevant for a long time to come. Whether you think the new upcoming games do not look compelling is completely up to you.

      "I think you're right, but wrong. Cheap is the way forward. If I look out into the world, it seems to be that way for many, but not all, things. Cars are falling in price. Housing is softening. Retail is collapsing. Games are free or 2 cents. AAA are released for $69, fall to $29 within a few months. People don't want to spend money. '

      What are you getting at? The Wii U was Nintendos attempt at striking a balance between features, power and price. I think they have done a reasonable job, you disagree. Thats fine. Now its up to the software to prove the console. That takes time. It doesnt happen overnight like you expect. It takes years of improving and learning to get the most out of the system. Its something ALL consoles go through. To get a good idea of how well a console has been you never look to its launch titles as an indicator. You always look at the games 1-2 years in (or later).

      Cheap is ideal as long as features are not compromised. Prices will always fall when times are tough. Again i dont know where your going besides pointing out the obvious.

      'Making the Wii U affordable, which it is (very much so), is a smart move, but they forgot to make it compelling... '

      YET. What makes consoles compelling is the games NOT the hardware itself. And as i have already stated whilst the Wii U launch was decent it hardly had any really compelling software. Wii had it. Wii Sports can be considered the greatest game of all time. I practically sold the console single handedly. No game could do what that game did for the Wii. As for the Wii U, 2 months in to its lifecycle is hardly grounds to make any conclusions. Im sure be years end Wii U will get plently of compelling games that really prove the Wii U concept. But for now we wait. But this is by no means a problem that is Wii U specific. All launch consoles suffer this. Look at the 3DS. It had a lackluster launch, but with a price drop and plenty of good games and it really has taken off. No reason why the Wii U if it follows a similar strategy that the Wii U could follow in the 3DS' footsteps.

      Let me reiterate. Consoles are only as compelling as the games. So far the Wii U isnt so compelling but give it a year or too and it most certainly will be.

      Your paragraph about the 720/ps3 simply agrees to with what i have been saying all along. Too much graphical Power will price the consoles out of reach for most consumers and will inevitably lead to their demise. With tablets becoming a gaming powerhouse unto themselves consoles will have a more difficult time trying to sell them selves. However its not impossible. The 3DS is around 30million units sold world wide in a couple of years. A pretty solid total in light of strong competition from tablets. So consoles can survive as long as they give reason for customers to buy them. Can you get a full version of Blackops 2 or Assassins creed 3 running on a tablet? No. so consoles still have there place. So if the right balance of price features and performance is struck as well as compelling software its not hard to imagine any console can sell and continue to sell well.

      'And if that's the case, who will buy it? It'll be the same disaster that the Wii U is, only not quite as bad.' You think a console at $800 will sell better then the Wii U? What are you smoking?Did you look at ps3's first year sales. It sold like $#!t. Took a major price drop before things picked up. Im also not sure if you know what disaster means, because despite the Wii U selling less then its predecessor it has still sold alot better during its launch then the ps3 or 360. So compared to its competitors its doing well. If you compare it to tablets (which im sure you are to emphasis your point) then sure its bad but hardly disastrous as your claiming. The current estimates are 2.5 to 3 million in 2 months or world wide sales. Far from your over exaggerated claims of disaster.

      'I think we should probably all face up to the fact that F2P and iOS/Android have pretty much destroyed the console business model. Sony and Microsoft will need our love or they'll go the way of Nintendo.'

      Nintendo is gone? Where? When? Evidence? As usual none. Yes ios/android will always be a threat but as i have pointed out as long as consoles can provide experiences you cant get from tablets then they will remain a part of the entertainment landscape for years to come.

    "This is complete and utter nonsense. "

    No. The Wii U really has launched. If you still don't believe me, look at that white box next to your TV.

    By the way, can you show me where I said that launch titles are the best that a system has to offer - thanks.

    Why would I, (and where do you think I have) disagree with Randy. The Wii U IS the most powerful console out at the moment, probably, marginally.

    "But according to your nonsense all consoles display the best the console has to offer at launch. "

    OK, so you're being very clear in what you're saying that I've stated - please show me a quote.

    "As i mentioned before its a launch title. Launch titles are usually on the lower end of the full capabilities of any console. This fact seems to have missed you completely. "

    No it doesn't appear that way. To be absolutely clear I fully agree with you and at no point have disagree that "launch titles are usually on the lower end of the full capabilities of any console". It's simply not a point that i've dwelled on as you have.

    "Then your argument is completely and utterly INVALID."

    What argument? You're going on and on about something that i've never said. Prove my non-existant invalid all you like, I agree with you.

    "Your evidence? NONE as usually."

    To be fair, I am acknowledging a lack of evidence by stating the word perhaps. Had I had evidence I perhaps would have refereed to it. I though that that would have perhaps have been obvious.

    "When did your opinion count as majority? how about Never.""

    When did I say that it did? how about Never

    "Your criticizing Nintendo for a problem that all consoles have? "

    No. I was criticizing Nintendo about their costs of their new console, I was, if anything praising them. I was also making the point that having fun after having paid a substantial amount of money ($650 in your case) shouldn't be that surprising. It would be very damning if you hadn't had fun. Having fun in itself does not make the Wii U worthy of excessive praises, given that it's purpose is to provide fun.

    "Utterly Ridiculous. If your gonna make an argument against Nintendo at least make sure its something that is a problem with Nintendo only. "

    If you're going to criticize my argument, opinion, or comments, could you please at the very least make an attempt to read them correctly first. You keep criticizing me with a fair degree of force and arguing against points that i've simply not made. If you read my comments you'll see that I've said that for a new console I think the Wii U is very well priced. I've not said they're expensive. I've even provided a recent and comprehensive price comparison which shows this to be the case. What more do you want from me? I don't know how you manage to misunderstand the meaning behind many of my comments so wildly.

    "The Wii U was Nintendos attempt at striking a balance between features, power and price. I think they have done a reasonable job, you disagree. Thats fine. Now its up to the software to prove the console. That takes time. "

    Yes, see, I do agree that they've got a very good price, don't I. It seems to me that the key difference between your point of view and mine is that you think that the Wii U has a lot of potential which once tapped into will yield awesome games - you see this as inevitably happening. I view the Wii U as marginally better than current gen machines. not overly innovative - and indeed some of the key innovations may be fundamentally flawed, and easily trumped by the next batch of consoles. I'm not even considering whether or not Nintendos future games will improve. I expect they will but I don't think they'll reach the heights of Sony or Microsofts next machines.

    "It doesnt happen overnight like you expect. It takes years of improving and learning to get the most out of the system. Its something ALL consoles go through. "

    You are correct. I am not arguing with you. The difference is that I'm not excusing Nintendo because they're in a launch window. What I'm saying, and I'm right to say so (and you seem to agree), is that right now the Wii U is not impressing. Bottom line. I'm not thinking, it's not impressing now but that's ok because at some point in the future I'm confident that it will. I'm just commenting about now. And now, it doesn't impress. And it should. That is, if it wants to compete for our hard earned dollars in an ultra competitive market.

    "YET. What makes consoles compelling is the games NOT the hardware itself."

    I disagree with the essence of your point. 1313 will be exciting because of it's content, yes, but being able to play that content is only possible and thereby utterly dependent on, the hardware.

    " As for the Wii U, 2 months in to its lifecycle is hardly grounds to make any conclusions."

    I agree. Personally I made my conclusions on the day that the Wii U was announced.

    "Im sure be years end Wii U will get plently of compelling games that really prove the Wii U concept. "

    I'm not.

    "Let me reiterate. Consoles are only as compelling as the games. So far the Wii U isnt so compelling but give it a year or too and it most certainly will be."

    You have no cause to be certain. None.

    "You think a console at $800 will sell better then the Wii U?"

    I think an $800 might well struggle full stop. But I acknowledge that an $800 console will likely have lower cost SKUs and will also likely fall in price within 12 months or so. So an $800 console will become a $600 console, then a $500 console etc.

    I also think that current hardcore players will be (very) excited for the next offerings from Sony and 360. I think that a significant proportion of hardcore 360/PS3 players will choose not to upgrade, or rather not to upgrade in a hurry, due to being very satisified with the current gen. I think it will be tough for everyone this coming generation.

    But, I don't think it is likely to be as bad as the Wii U. The 720 and the PS4 will offer something to the hardcore. The Wii U doesn't. I also think that what the Wii U offers casual players is pretty weak, and expect that Sony and MS will do better. I can't see them doing worse. More disapointingly, Nintendo appear weak in the casual market when they have by far the best IP to attract casual gamers (Mario et al) and also the strongest relationships with casual oriented games (Ubisofts shovelware collections etc).

    "Im also not sure if you know what disaster means, because despite the Wii U selling less then its predecessor it has still sold alot better during its launch then the ps3 or 360. So compared to its competitors its doing well. "

    Look, to be completely clear, I'm just some guy stating his opinion. I don't have stats, if I did I probably wouldn't pay a great deal of attention to them. If you have stats to prove me wrong, prove me wrong. Just stating me's opinion is all.

    "Nintendo is gone? Where? When? Evidence? "

    Did I say Nintendo was gone? No. This is a good example of why it's annoying having a discourse with you. You quote something, and then immediately after claim it to be something that it isn't.

    You're quote does not say that Nintendo was gone

    It did, however, indicate that Nintendo is in the process of going. Evidence you ask for? Ok, sure, but it will be non-statistical.

    3DSs sales failed to have the inspired launch that it was expected to have had. 3DSs' overall sales have failed to achieve the height s of the DS and have obviously been heavily impacted (reduced) by the extremely fast and dominating sectors of smart phones and tablets, which unarguably now provide extremely popular and technically very competent games - games which in terms of quality (of entertainment, value, technical capacities) are easily comparable and frequently superior to those that are on offer with the 3DS. Remember, I own a 3DS. Haven't played it yet though.

    The Wii U has failed to have the success of the Wii. The Wii U has failed to provide a technical match for it's upcoming competitors. Wii U have a weak to very weak launch. Wii U has had a very weak and unsuccessful marketing and PR campaign. The Wii U does not have, and hasn't even announced, or hinted at the launch of any killer-app. The Wii U has had the embarrasment of it's 4gb update, and back tracking of the TVii ( I believe). The Wii failed to keep it's audience. The 360 and PS3 has succeeded to keep their audiences.

    Disagree with this one, if you can. The majority of 360/PS3/PC will be more inclined to purchase a next gen console from MS, Sony (or Steam, or Ouya, or high end PC) than they will a Wii U.

    I'm not saying wow, MS and Sony are going to sell gang busters - I don't know that they will, and I'm not trying to have a petty discussion on those lines. I'm saying that Nintendo has failed, massively, to hold onto their market share and seem determined to increase their losses. And that cannot be sustained.

    "as long as consoles can provide experiences you cant get from tablets then they will remain a part of the entertainment landscape for years to come."

    Undoubtedly. In one capacity or another. But they will not be the dominant form of home gaming that they have been. Unless there is a massive techical leap such as VR. Certainly it will require something a lot more compelling than Nintendos offering.

      'No. The Wii U really has launched. If you still don't believe me, look at that white box next to your TV.'

      I think you have misunderstood. By fully tested i meant pushed to the full potential (we cant do direct comparison tests because there is no credible benchmarking software that can compare consoles with different architectures all we they can see is clock speed and memory bandwith etc but that doesnt tell the whole story). That happens a few years into the lifecycle.

      'By the way, can you show me where I said that launch titles are the best that a system has to offer - thanks. '

      You said the Wii U was 'messed up Royally' and its not a 'compelling' console. What have you based it on? 2 months. Again that to me means you have made your judgment on the system based on launch software. You have not taken into account the software that will possibly come on the system for your conclusion. So yes you have said the Wii U launch titles are the best the console has to offer.

      Let me make it clear its the games that provide compelling reason to buy consoles. Not the other way around. Its why something as powerful as the Vita is struggling next to the graphically weaker 3DS. Its all about the games.

      'If you're going to criticize my argument, opinion, or comments, could you please at the very least make an attempt to read them correctly first. You keep criticizing me with a fair degree of force and arguing against points that i've simply not made. If you read my comments you'll see that I've said that for a new console I think the Wii U is very well priced. I've not said they're expensive. I've even provided a recent and comprehensive price comparison which shows this to be the case. What more do you want from me? I don't know how you manage to misunderstand the meaning behind many of my comments so wildly. '

      You were making mention of prices. You were the one that started talking about $800 price total to enjoy the Wii U not me. Here is your quote

      'Giving fun for $800 in itself isn't worthy of praise. '

      I see you as over exaggerating things alot to get a point across but for what reason? All consoles suffer this problem so why did you even bother pointing out this issue? Please dont bring up useless points.

      'I disagree with the essence of your point. 1313 will be exciting because of it's content, yes, but being able to play that content is only possible and thereby utterly dependent on, the hardware. '

      Wrong. The vita and xbox were the most powerful consoles of their respective generations. They still were significantly outsold by the 3DS and ps2 (respectively). Why? Games. That gave compelling reason to choose the 3DS and ps2 over the vita and xbox.

      'You have no cause to be certain. None. '

      I base it on past console sales and trends.

      ps1 > N64
      ps2>xbox&GC
      DS>psp
      Wii>ps3&360
      3DS>vita

      the reason? Those consoles had the most (and more) compelling software. All were weaker then the competiton so whilst the more powerful consoles In YOUR opinion are more compelling because of power alone they could not outsell a weaker console with more games. Hence what makes a console more compelling is GAMES not hardware.

      Go check out official numbers and get back. What did you base your answer on? Nothing

      'Look, to be completely clear, I'm just some guy stating his opinion. I don't have stats, if I did I probably wouldn't pay a great deal of attention to them. If you have stats to prove me wrong, prove me wrong. Just stating me's opinion is all. '

      Anyone can state opinions. Im just pointing out yours arent based on facts and evidence. That is after all what you said. I have used evidence to prove you wrong. Its you that have not supported your opinions with any evidence whatsoever. Here i can make unsubstantiated opinions like you if you like. Apple will go out of business tomorrow. Again i can make the opinion but if some one calls me out to explain said opinion i wont be able to because i havent got any evidence to back up the opinion. This is exactly what you are guilty of.

      "Did I say Nintendo was gone? No. This is a good example of why it's annoying having a discourse with you. You quote something, and then immediately after claim it to be something that it isn't. "

      you said this

      'Sony and Microsoft will need our love or they'll go the way of Nintendo.'

      What way is that? You have called the Wii U a Royal mess and assume they wont out sell even a more expensively priced console from sony or microsoft. So your hinting on them going out of business after all consoles is the only business they have.

      '3DSs sales failed to have the inspired launch that it was expected to have had. 3DSs' overall sales have failed to achieve the height s of the DS and have obviously been heavily impacted (reduced) by the extremely fast and dominating sectors of smart phones and tablets, which unarguably now provide extremely popular and technically very competent games - games which in terms of quality (of entertainment, value, technical capacities) are easily comparable and frequently superior to those that are on offer with the 3DS. Remember, I own a 3DS. Haven't played it yet though. '

      This is more BS from you. Proof again you dont do a shred of evidence when making your opinions

      http://www.kotaku.com.au/2011/12/3ds-outsells-dss-year-one-sales-in-8-months/

      the 3DS has outsold its predecessor. Thats from this website! You still continued to write that nonsense. When you write BS like that is in any wonder why i tear apart your arguments?

      'The Wii U has failed to have the success of the Wii. The Wii U has failed to provide a technical match for it's upcoming competitors. Wii U have a weak to very weak launch. Wii U has had a very weak and unsuccessful marketing and PR campaign. The Wii U does not have, and hasn't even announced, or hinted at the launch of any killer-app. The Wii U has had the embarrasment of it's 4gb update, and back tracking of the TVii ( I believe). The Wii failed to keep it's audience. The 360 and PS3 has succeeded to keep their audiences. '

      So it has out sold ps3 and 360s launch console sales. You don't know the specs of the next gen console so you can BS all you like. I'll wait for the facts, something you seem incapable of doing. Wii U did have a weak launch but as i said it has out done its nearest competitors. Most launch console dont start off with Killer apps. When did halo hit the 360? Not till after 1 year. Embarrassment of an update? Please stop over exaggerating. The Wii still enjoys sales to this day despite Nintendo pulling the plug on it. Again your audience talk lacks something you lack in general. Evidence.

      'Disagree with this one, if you can. The majority of 360/PS3/PC will be more inclined to purchase a next gen console from MS, Sony (or Steam, or Ouya, or high end PC) than they will a Wii U. '

      As usual mr no facts with his BS statements. I cant disagree till i see what the next consoles have to offer. I wont go off half cocked on half backed rumors to make my opinions. I use hard facts. You should try it one day. It will make your arguments less hollow then they already are.

      'I'm not saying wow, MS and Sony are going to sell gang busters - I don't know that they will, and I'm not trying to have a petty discussion on those lines. I'm saying that Nintendo has failed, massively, to hold onto their market share and seem determined to increase their losses. And that cannot be sustained. '

      Based on what? Nothing. What real world trends and figures made you come to that conclusion? Nothing. How do you know Nintendo has failed Massively to hold on to their market share? Care to elaborate? Your evidence? Oh as always nothing. Just hot air. I'll happily agree to what your saying if you can have anything to corroborate your statements. Time and time again you failed to do so. So your argument is a failure

      'Undoubtedly. In one capacity or another. But they will not be the dominant form of home gaming that they have been. Unless there is a massive techical leap such as VR. Certainly it will require something a lot more compelling than Nintendos offering.'

      I agree that it wont be the only gaming experience but there will always be demand for full experience games that only consoles can provide. As long as they can maintain that i dont see consoles completely dying.

        "I think you have misunderstood. By fully tested i meant..."

        You see, this is annoying. You seem to be referring to your own statements (By fully tested i meant..) so i've looked through your previous statements so that I can know what you're referring to, but I can't see when you've said ""By fully tested"". Have you actually said "By fully tested"? Because if you haven't can you please take this as evidence that not only do you misquote me (and presumably other commentors) but you also misquote yourself. If i'm mistaken I'll apologise in advance, but if I'm correct will you please take this on board and improve the clarity and accuracy of your future statements.

        How can you expect any of us to avoid misunderstanding is you continually misquote everyone.

        "we cant do direct comparison tests"

        So what? Who needs to do direct comparison tests?

        Again, you're approach to discussing topics is annoying.

        You're referring to my points whilst utterly ignoring the points that I'm making. I'm not talking about comparing the Wii U to the 720/PS4 am I? And why would I need to. The evidence that we have (which is both speculation and common sense based) is clear that the Wii U will technically be trounced by the 720/PS4.

        Please, be clear with me, give me a yes or a no. Do you really question that the 720/PS4 will be significantly technically better than the Wii U?

        If you then there's probably no point in discussing this topic with you. I'm being realistic. You're not.

        OK, so let me pre-empt your calls for evidence concerning PS4/720 tech specs. You're correct, no I don't have evidence. But we have a wealth of speculation, all of which points to the Wii U being massively over-shadowed. Further, we can apply common sense. If the Wii U is marginally better than PS3/360, and we can expect that the PS4/720 will be technically significantly superior than the PS3/360, then we can be very, very confident that the Wii U will be massively overshadowed.

        I won't discuss this aspect with you again. I've made my points clear. They're reasonable and realistic. To argue against them without being able to show any reason to do so, is unreasonable and unrealistic. And thereby pointless.

        "'By the way, can you show me where I said that launch titles are the best that a system has to offer - thanks. '

        You said the Wii U was 'messed up Royally' and ."

        OK, so we can use this as another example of how you're annoying in your discussions. You're (again) quoting me in an attempt to respond to my point - and you're response starts off by completely misunderstanding / misconstrueing my point.

        Must I again re-iterate my initial meaning. Was it that unclear? I don't think so.

        I asked you, in the question that you're quoting and responding to, to show me where I referred to launch titles. And you haven't done that. All you needed to do was to acknowledge that I hadn't referred to launch titles.

        Does 'messed up Royally' refer to launch titles? I'll answer that one shall I? No. It does not.

        Does 'its not a 'compelling' console' refer to launch titles? I'll answer that one shall I? No. It does not.

        Please, do not answer questions by completely ignoring the question or lying (or misrepresenting statements) in your answer.

        "What have you based it on? 2 months"

        Noooooooooooo. My gosh. Have I not made this clear. I AM NOT REFERRING TO THE LAUNCH WINDOW. I'm referring to the hardware and software that has been released. We have the item in our hands. It's been evaluated. There is no need for further speculation.

        Do you do this on purpose? Is this the kind of reaction your attempting to provoke? Are you purposefully a troll, or is this troll-like effect merely a function of your poor discussion skills?

        "You have not taken into account the software that will possibly come on the system for your conclusion"

        Correct. I made that 100% clear in my previous statements. In order to come to that conclusion you could have just read what I said correctly.

        "So yes you have said the Wii U launch titles are the best the console has to offer."

        Ummm, what? Are you being serious? OK, you're either clearly trying to get a rise out of me, if so, well done, it's worked, OR, you have serious issues with your reasoning and comprehension skills.

        "Let me make it clear its the games that provide compelling reason to buy consoles. Not the other way around. Its why something as powerful as the Vita is struggling next to the graphically weaker 3DS. Its all about the games."

        Yes, we had this discussion in the last round of (Long) posts. Why are we having it again? You've stated your opinion, I've stated mine. You don't win just because you state your opinion again.

        But let me respond in any case. Gosh I am a twit aren't I.

        You're comparing the 3DS and the Vita. You seem to be saying that the Vita is technically superior to the 3DS but is not selling as well as the 3DS and that's because of the 3DSs' superior software. Let me say that I do not disagree in the least. I fully understand the argument that content is King. It's not a new concept.

        However, my point is that although content may well be King, it is not both King and Country. The superior 3DS games cannot be played on the DS. They can only be played on the 3DS. My point (quite clearly) is that the superior content is entirely dependent on the hardware. The hardware in question (3DS) is superior than the DS. If the 3DS hardware was not superior to the DS, the 3DS would not have superior software.

        The software is utterly dependent on the hardware.

        Content is King, Hardware is the land owner. Or something like that.

        " I see you as over exaggerating things alot to get a point across but for what reason?"

        Did I over exaggerate significantly? I guessed how much in total you had spent on your Wii U experience. I was less than 20% out. That's a pretty good guess. And it shows that I might well have been more correct. Some people likely would have spent $800 all told on their Wii U (initial) setup. Yes, you are right some would have spent much more on a PS3 initial setup but then we're not talking about the PS3 are we. We're talking about the Wii U.

        So, to be clear. The Wii U in comparison to the other consoles currently on the market is well priced. For being a new console, the Wii U is very well priced. However, despite the relative competitive pricing of the main unit itself, the all up initial setup costs of a Wii U, as it is with other consoles, is a significant investment, in your case $650, and very likely in other peoples cases (especially those without existing Wii accessories and controllers) $800 or so.

        That's my point. It was made clearly in the first place. I won't be making it again.

        "'I disagree with the essence of your point. 1313 will be exciting because of it's content, yes, but being able to play that content is only possible and thereby utterly dependent on, the hardware. '

        Wrong."

        Oh, 1313 is coming out on PS2 is it?

        If I were allowed to directly insult you I think I probably would,

        Here's the part that you're not reading correctly..."being able to play that content"

        This has nothing to do with how well the XBox was outsold by the PS2. If you think it does, again you have massive issues with your reasoning skills.

        'You have no cause to be certain. None. '

        I base it on past console sales and trends.'""

        You base WHAT on past console sales and trends. You're being massively unclear. The 3DS outselling the VIta somehow proves to you that the Wii U will have compelling games by the end of the year? How on Earth did you garner that. The 2 subjects are completely unrelated. You really are being very silly. I don't mean to be mean, but come on Terrak, you have to keep your arguments logical.

        "Hence what makes a console more compelling is GAMES not hardware."

        Yes, and the 3DS outselling the Vita proves to you have the Wii U will have compelling games by the end of the year how exactly? If you sense a lack of energy in my statements give yourself a pat on the back. I'm now quite exhausted.

        "Go check out official numbers and get back. What did you base your answer on? Nothing"

        Official numbers that will prove that the Wii U will have compelling games by the end of the year ? You're right, I've completely failed in that exercise.

        "Anyone can state opinions. Im just pointing out yours arent based on facts and evidence."

        So am I.

        "I have used evidence to prove you wrong"

        It might be accurate to say that you have referred to evidence in an attempt to prove me wrong, but your actual statement is incorrect.

        "Here i can make unsubstantiated opinions like you if you like. "

        You have been.

        "This is exactly what you are guilty of."

        No, it isn't. We know it isn't simply on the basis that I've never stated exactly what you refer to ("Apple will go out of business tomorrow.").

        "So your hinting on them going out of business after all consoles is the only business they have."

        I've been clear in my views. I've actually stated (perhaps in other threads) that I don't thnk Nintendo will go out of business. I do, however, believe that within the console and hardcore markets, and casual gaming markets they are failing. Massively. I don't think the failure is totally apparent to most right now, afterall their consoles are doing OK sales apparently, But in terms of mind space of the hardcore gamer, I feel that Nintendo have lost. In terms of the casual market, I think Nintendo have lost (and SOny and MS might well also lose, we'll see).

        I think Nintendo will have to bow out of their position in the industry much in the same way Sega has. Remember them. Remember how dominant they were. They're still in business, but not in the same way that they once were. That's roughly the same direction I see for Nintendo, or to be more accurate, that is if Nintendo remain on the path they currently are (producing uncompelling hardware platforms). I see it as more likely that they'll find a viable business partner to help revive their position. Personally I think Apple and Nintendo should merge today. I think Nintendo needs the help and could potentially recoup its dominating position with the help, and I think that Apple would overnight become a bona fide game industry player and have the strongest gaming IP to boot. Win win in my eyes. Either way Nintendo needs to be strengthened if it's to battle MS and Sony. They are both very powerful competitors. And let's not fool ourselves, they are batlling MS and Sony, and iOS and Android, and Ouya and Steam Box, and PC and Steam , uplay and Origin.

        "the 3DS has outsold its predecessor."

        Wrong. OK. so you refer to statistical evidence, but don't do so correctly. Personally I believe my approach of not (generally) referring to statistical evidence and when I do so, ensuring that I do correctly is superior to your approach.

        The 3DS has outsold the DS in their respective first years, I think that's the point that you're trying to make, THe point that you actually made, that the 3DS has outsold its predecessor is utterly wrong, and you know it.

        "Embarrassment of an update? Please stop over exaggerating."

        Sure, but only once I start over exaggerating.

        "The Wii still enjoys sales to this day despite Nintendo pulling the plug on it."

        Seriously, you want to go in that direction? You realise that the PS2 still enjoys sales to this day? You realise that the 360 came out a year or more prior to the Wii (see, I can't be bothered to check facts, but am happy to go with approximations), and enjoys selling (probably far more, dont have stats) to this day? Ditto with the PS3 (apart from launch date).

        "As usual mr no facts with his BS statements. I cant disagree till i see what the next consoles have to offer."

        Wrong. You can disagree if you choose to. You simply choose not to. For whatever reason, which in your case seems to be due to a lack of evidence, and not an application of reason or common sense, or anecdotal evidence.

        "How do you know Nintendo has failed Massively to hold on to their market share? Care to elaborate?"

        Has a large percentage of hard core gamers, 360/PS3/PC owners, rushed out and bought the (very well priced) Wii U? My answer (non stat based) would be no.

        Has a large percentage of casual gamers, iOS/Android device owners, rushed out and bought the (very well priced) Wii U? My answer (non stat based) would be no.

        "Oh as always nothing. Just hot air."

        You forgot reasoning. logic and common sense.

        "I'll happily agree to what your saying if you can have anything to corroborate your statements. "

        How about Nintendo's admission that Wii U launch sales have been well below expectations? Or the fact that it is largely speculated that Wii U supplies have been lower than that of traditional console launches, and even with limited supply the Wii U has failed to sell out?

        More hot air is it?

        "Time and time again you failed to do so. So your argument is a failure"

        You ask me a question and before I have a chance to answer it you declare me a failure. Do you have kids? I hope your parenting skills aren't this bad.

          'You see, this is annoying. You seem to be referring to your own statements (By fully tested i meant..) so i've looked through your previous statements so that I can know what you're referring to, but I can't see when you've said ""By fully tested"". Have you actually said "By fully tested"? Because if you haven't can you please take this as evidence that not only do you
          . misquote me (and presumably other commentors) but you also misquote yourself. If i'm mistaken I'll apologise in advance, but if I'm correct will you please take this on board and improve the clarity and accuracy of your future statements. '

          That is what i meant with the by test. There is no benchmark software to properly test/compare different consoles so in now way was that describing a test to determine a consoles power in relation to other consoles. By test i meant test the limits of the Wii U. I was correct in claiming there is nothing yet on the system that tests the limits of the Wii U.

          ''So what? Who needs to do direct comparison tests?

          Again, you're approach to discussing topics is annoying'

          You seem to be of the opinion (not fact) that the Wii U is only marginally better then anything else already available. Like always you have nothing to back that up and your evidence is launch titles. This is why i said they systems limits have yet to be tested so making a stupid comment like 'marginally' without anything to back your claims is ridiculous. Being annoyed at the facts is not my concern

          'Noooooooooooo. My gosh. Have I not made this clear. I AM NOT REFERRING TO THE LAUNCH WINDOW. I'm referring to the hardware and software that has been released. We have the item in our hands. It's been evaluated. There is no need for further speculation.

          Do you do this on purpose? Is this the kind of reaction your attempting to provoke? Are you purposefully a troll, or is this troll-like effect merely a function of your poor discussion skills'

          WTF are you on about. My suggestion is to give the console time to evolve. How can you come to the conclusion that the console is as you said 'Messed up Royally?' Lets have a look at the 360 launch and ps3 launches. Were they perfect? No. They didnt even sell as many consoles as the Wii U but would anyone today call the consoles a royal mess up? No. Because after a few years the consoles shined. No one would be stupid enough to judge the console on its launch or launch window. No one would have every called it a failure before the best software is released so why the f**k do you think its ok to make such as statement about the Wii U. On top of that you have no real evidence to make such and assertion. Nothing.

          So what if you have made mention that you have not taken into account what software will come for the system in the future. That doesnt give you any right whatsoever to come to the conclusion you have. The launch has not been a smash hit but its far from the disaster or royal messup you've been claiming.

          'Yes, we had this discussion in the last round of (Long) posts. Why are we having it again? You've stated your opinion, I've stated mine. You don't win just because you state your opinion again. '

          Because your wrong. I've shown you that consoles with more games can outsell more powerful consoles. That is fact. Your opinion is that hardware is the most compelling thing of a console which is to a degree but not as important as software. Obviously newer hardware is better. But let me restate that your assertion that consoles on their own are the only compelling reason to people to buy consoles is wrong. After all the ps3 had plenty of features including a full blu ray player, it had alot of compelling hardware features - more then any other console, yet it still could not outsell the Wii. I made this argument to counter your nonsense comment that the Wii U hardware isnt compelling. For the hardware to be compelling the games have to show off what the console is capable of. So far nothing has really shown off the potential of the Wii U.

          'Ummm, what? Are you being serious? OK, you're either clearly trying to get a rise out of me, if so, well done, it's worked, OR, you have serious issues with your reasoning and comprehension skills. '

          You said that Wii U was messed up royally. I was merely finding the evidence that you used to support this assertion. Since we are only 2 months in and you have already admitted you are not taking into account future software i am right to assume you are making this judgment with the launch period games as your evidence. Is this not correct? If not please explain what other evidence you have to make the claim that the Wii U is messed up royally.

          'OK, so we can use this as another example of how you're annoying in your discussions. You're (again) quoting me in an attempt to respond to my point - and you're response starts off by completely misunderstanding / misconstrueing my point. '

          Dont make statements you cant back up. What am i misunderstanding? Your stopping short of calling it a complete and utter failure, with nothing to back up your statement whatsoever. Back it up with more then your biased opinion.

          "However, my point is that although content may well be King, it is not both King and Country. The superior 3DS games cannot be played on the DS. They can only be played on the 3DS. My point (quite clearly) is that the superior content is entirely dependent on the hardware. The hardware in question (3DS) is superior than the DS. If the 3DS hardware was not superior to the DS, the 3DS would not have superior software. '

          This is obvious. This was not the point i was making so you have missed the point completely. You said the Wii U was not compelling. I merely stated that the software will make it compelling, & that the compelling software has yet to come (Zelda, Mario Metroid etc) I agreed to your point that its not compelling but added YET. Its not compelling YET. The compelling games will come later on. If you were to claim that the Wii U is not compelling FULL STOP you would be wrong. Look back at the counter point i made. i said YET.

          'Did I over exaggerate significantly? I guessed how much in total you had spent on your Wii U experience. I was less than 20% out. That's a pretty good guess. And it shows that I might well have been more correct. Some people likely would have spent $800 all told on their Wii U (initial) setup. Yes, you are right some would have spent much more on a PS3 initial setup but then we're not talking about the PS3 are we. We're talking about the Wii U.

          So, to be clear. The Wii U in comparison to the other consoles currently on the market is well priced. For being a new console, the Wii U is very well priced. However, despite the relative competitive pricing of the main unit itself, the all up initial setup costs of a Wii U, as it is with other consoles, is a significant investment, in your case $650, and very likely in other peoples cases (especially those without existing Wii accessories and controllers) $800 or so. '

          You have completely missed the point. I know this was your attempt to counter my argument regarding Nintendo's attempt at providing the right mix of price, performance and feature for the Wii U. This estimate of what a full set up cost of the Wii U is to be honest ridiculous. I have no idea why you brought it up. It has nothing to do with the argument i made. I said what will Microsoft and Sony do to their consoles to get the mix of price, performance and features right. You missed this point entirely and started to do rough cost estimations. Who cares about the rough cost estimations? Its completely and utterly pointless.

          'I've been clear in my views. I've actually stated (perhaps in other threads) that I don't thnk Nintendo will go out of business. I do, however, believe that within the console and hardcore markets, and casual gaming markets they are failing. Massively. I don't think the failure is totally apparent to most right now, afterall their consoles are doing OK sales apparently, But in terms of mind space of the hardcore gamer, I feel that Nintendo have lost. In terms of the casual market, I think Nintendo have lost (and SOny and MS might well also lose, we'll see). '

          You still fail to provide evidence. Sure its sales arent as good as the Wii but nothing really has been during its launch period. So dont single out the Wii U as doing particularly bad when all consoles suffer similarly during launch. So its pointless to made mention of problem basically all consoles face.

          'You base WHAT on past console sales and trends. You're being massively unclear. The 3DS outselling the VIta somehow proves to you that the Wii U will have compelling games by the end of the year? How on Earth did you garner that. The 2 subjects are completely unrelated. You really are being very silly. I don't mean to be mean, but come on Terrak, you have to keep your arguments logical. '

          Basing evidence on trends is easy. You look at past sales and use them to back up assertions. I have made no direct correlation between the 3DS outselling the vita and the Wii U. None. This is your lame attempt to create an argument. Im not saying that its guaranteed that it will happen (ie Wii U will out sell its competitors). However i am correct to suggest that the console with the most power (thus more compelling hardware wise) has not meant the console has outsold consoles with more software (thus more compelling software wise). Please dont mix generations. Im being generation specific(ie ps2, xbox and GC is one generation with varying hardware capabilities with the ps2 having the least and the xbox having the most). But to reinforce my case which home console has sold more ? That would be The PS2. Why? Its had practically all the games (all the third party support). Has any recent home console outsold it? No Even though those newer consoles are more powerful. I arrest my case.

          'I've been clear in my views. I've actually stated (perhaps in other threads) that I don't thnk Nintendo will go out of business'

          funny the next paragraph you say this

          'I think Nintendo will have to bow out of their position in the industry much in the same way Sega has.'

          lol you sure you know what your on about?

          'Remember how dominant they were. They're still in business, but not in the same way that they once were.'

          I remember the N64 and GC and how they were last place in their respective console generations. A decade ago you could hardly call Nintendo Dominating. It all changed with the Wii and has given Nintendo new life and more importance in the industry, something that could not be said a decade ago or more ago. So things have changed but for the better. They are dominating now, before they were last place.

          ' I see it as more likely that they'll find a viable business partner to help revive their position'

          Revive their position? Who needs to be revived from first place? After all the 3DS is dominating the handheld market and the Wii still maintains a sizable lead over its competitors. Also the Wii and DS have been profitable for Nintendo, something the ps3 and 360 have yet to be. So what exactly do they need to revived from? Oh lets not forget sony's credit rating is at junk status and Windows strangle hold on computing is slowly being eroded by tablets so microsoft no longer have the windows platform as a guaranteed money maker like it was before. But its Nintendo that needs 'reviving'. Please try again when you make sense

          'Wrong. OK. so you refer to statistical evidence, but don't do so correctly. Personally I believe my approach of not (generally) referring to statistical evidence and when I do so, ensuring that I do correctly is superior to your approach.

          The 3DS has outsold the DS in their respective first years, I think that's the point that you're trying to make, THe point that you actually made, that the 3DS has outsold its predecessor is utterly wrong, and you know it. '

          What a load of BS. This is your statement plain and clear -

          '3DSs' overall sales have failed to achieve the height s of the DS'

          this statement is wrong on so many levels

          the facts
          'Fils-Aimes said that this past Saturday saw the 3DS surpass the sales of the first 12 months of the DS. '

          8 months of 3DS sales a feat that the original DS took over 12 months to do. Also the DS didnt have the massive competition of tablets nor the global financial crysis. So considering all these factors and achieving such sales figures completely invalidates your assertion that the 3DS has failed to achieve the heights of the DS. Its done it and more.

          'Sure, but only once I start over exaggerating.'

          You started along time ago. So i guess thats your admission

          'Wrong. You can disagree if you choose to. You simply choose not to. For whatever reason, which in your case seems to be due to a lack of evidence, and not an application of reason or common sense, or anecdotal evidence. '

          LOL what a load of nonsense. You have been claiming this and that about the next console with no official knowledge of specs or anything. I dont care what some rumor says. I prefer to wait for something official. You obviously have no problem accepting rumors as facts. Your prerogative.

          'Has a large percentage of hard core gamers, 360/PS3/PC owners, rushed out and bought the (very well priced) Wii U? My answer (non stat based) would be no. '

          Did all the hard core gamers rush out and buy the 360 or ps3 when it launched? that would be a NO too (remember the Wii U has out sold both ps3 and 360 during the launch period). Yet today both are strong hardcore gaming consoles. Reason - plenty of thirdparty AAA titles. Those started to appear 1-2 years after launch. Proves the point i've been trying to make nicely thanks.

          How about Nintendo's admission that Wii U launch sales have been well below expectations? Or the fact that it is largely speculated that Wii U supplies have been lower than that of traditional console launches, and even with limited supply the Wii U has failed to sell out?'

          Nintendo said not to compare the two launches. They may have been below expectations but hardly disastrous like you are making them out to be. Of course it wasnt a sellout like the Wii was. Nintendo had stated well before the launch that they will be better prepared to meet the demand for the console, something they did not do for the Wii. Lets not forget the current financial circumstances the Wii U is launching in to and the massive competition which you yourself have pointed out, so despite all these problems the Wii U has sold quite well. But of course we cant truly know how well they have done until the other consoles have launched and we can compare the sales of those launches with that of the Wii U. Now we can only compare the Wii U launches with the ps3 and 360 and so far it has outsold them. Also who said Nintendo was limiting supply of the Wii U. Care to find a link to prove your point?

          http://www.joystiq.com/2012/11/14/wii-u-will-be-in-larger-supply-than-wii-at-launch-replenished-m/

          LOL you were saying? Wii U was always to have more then enough stock. So i dont know what BS your peddling again.

          'You ask me a question and before I have a chance to answer it you declare me a failure. Do you have kids? I hope your parenting skills aren't this bad.'

          Im not going to bring my personal life into this discussion. Completely irrelevant to the argument. Actually i proved time and time again how bad your arguments have been and how wrong you have been. Of course you will think my argument skills are bad (an opinion not a fact). Your the one getting his argument dismantled by me i dont expect you to praise me destroying your hollow arguments. Comparing it to parenting is like the rest of your argument ridiculous but i guess thats what i must expect from you.

          Last edited 23/01/13 7:13 pm

            You keep talking about console launches. I'm not. You do understand that, don't you.

            No one would have called the PS3 a failure at launch simply because it was a thoroughly impressive piece of technology at launch. I call the Wii U a failure because it is not a thoroughly impressive piece if technology at launch, Now, please, i've clarified this point many times. Don't make me repeat myself. Disagree, sure, but don't ask me why I thin this or that when I've told you several times.

            "But let me restate that your assertion that consoles on their own are the only compelling reason to people to buy consoles is wrong."

            You know what I said last time about mis-quotes and not reading my comments properly etc., You're doing it again. Please, show me where I asserted ""that consoles on their own are the only compelling reason to people to buy consoles".

            I didn't. At all. You're either purposefully trying to misrepresent my statements or have (again) misread them. I'm not going to bother explaining what I previously said as I'm sure it wasn't as confusing as you seem to think it was.

            " please explain what other evidence you have to make the claim that the Wii U is messed up royally"

            No. I've explained my reasonings for my negative opinions of the Wii U directly to yourself, in detail several times. I won't do it again.

            "This was not the point i was making so you have missed the point completely."

            You're right, This is the point that I was making. For a second time. Because it appeared you failed to see or acknowledge my point (correctly) the first time.

            "If you were to claim that the Wii U is not compelling FULL STOP you would be wrong."

            If when I make the claim it is clear that I am stating my opinion, which it was, then no I would not be wrong, I would be right. You saying the word YET does not make my opinion any less valid.

            "Did all the hard core gamers rush out and buy the 360 or ps3 when it launched? that would be a NO too. Yet today both are strong hardcore gaming consoles. Reason - plenty of thirdparty AAA titles. Those started to appear 1-2 years after launch. Proves the point i've been trying to make nicely thanks."

            This is a good and valid point. A rarity in your comments.

            I disagree with your assertions that the Wii U will mimick the success of the 360/PS3 simply on the basis that it might. Anything might happen. But I expect that 360/PS3/PC owners will be much more inclined to purchase a 720/PS4. As i've already made very clear.

            "despite all these problems the Wii U has sold quite well. "

            Quite well is far from being a success. Which has largely been my point.

            "But of course we cant truly know how well they have done until the other consoles have launched"

            Incorrect.

            " and we can compare the sales of those launches with that of the Wii U. "

            What is it with you and comparisons. Do you need to stand an elephant next to a tiger to determine which one is which. Can't you just identify an elephant standing on its own? Most of us can.

            "LOL you were saying? Wii U was always to have more then enough stock. So i dont know what BS your peddling again."

            If i'm wrong, i'm wrong. I'm not saying that I am, I have no idea. But I will make it clear that I'm not peddling any BS. I might be spouting BS, but I'm certainly not peddling any.

            "'You ask me a question and before I have a chance to answer it you declare me a failure. Do you have kids? I hope your parenting skills aren't this bad.'

            Im not going to bring my personal life into this discussion. "

            Lol. I do make myself laugh sometimes. That was a gem. Yes, you're quite right not to bring your personal life into this discussion, it was only meant as a gentle ribbing. And parental advice.

            "Actually i proved time and time again how bad your arguments have been and how wrong you have been. "

            Yes, but only to yourself.

            "Your the one getting his argument dismantled by me "

            Am I?

            "i dont expect you to praise me destruction of your hollow arguments. "

            You know ,I think I might be happy to do just that, should it ever Comparing it to parenting is like the rest of your argument ridiculous but i guess thats what i must expect from you."

            I would say that you should expect reason and logic, insight and a touch of humour from me. Maybe a bit of a hug too? Come on, you know you want one.

              'You keep talking about console launches. I'm not. You do understand that, don't you.

              No one would have called the PS3 a failure at launch simply because it was a thoroughly impressive piece of technology at launch. I call the Wii U a failure because it is not a thoroughly impressive piece if technology at launch, Now, please, i've clarified this point many times. Don't make me repeat myself. Disagree, sure, but don't ask me why I thin this or that when I've told you several times. '

              If thats all that matters to you get a PC it can do everything a ps3 can do and more. You call the Wii U a failure because you dont like it plain and simple. Not for any other reason whatsoever. Of course the ps3 was an impressive piece of hardware, It was estimated at $900 worth of components sold for approx $600. If your practically giving away your product (about 30% to be exact) you damn better hope its impressive. But it came at a cost. Look at playstation now. A shadow of its former self (compared to the ps2). The ps3 has practically wiped the profits of the ps1 and ps2 during its first 3 years. So while its good for gamers it isnt a good business model or financially sustainable. Do you think sony can do this again? I dont think so. So despite being a nice idea its not something that any company will be likely to repeat. I have a feeling that the same will be said for the next xbox. As you pointed out a high priced console will never sell big. Not in the current economic climate

              As for the Wii U of course you will call it a hardware failure. As you have admitted you wont give it a chance to prove it self. So thats fine. It hardly makes you right. Its simply your opinion. No facts or evidence simply what you think on the matter.

              You need to qualify your statements with 'IMO' or explain that its your opinion and not try to express them as matter of fact. Why should we take your comments seriously if you have rubbished the gamepad concept and any future AAA games before they have even come out? Wow just wow. Even though i dont care too much about the next consoles and believe all they will offer is improved graphics i wont ever be so closed minded like you to think that they wont be able to offer anything worth the price of admission. I feel they will both have something to offer. Any real gamer would have this attitude. Obviously its one you are not going to have regarding Nintendo no matter what they do or the games they release.

              'Quite well is far from being a success. Which has largely been my point. '

              Well define success? What to you is grounds for success? You simply said the Wii U isnt it. So how do the ps3 and 360 launches fall in your definition of success?

              'Incorrect.'

              Sorry what? When the ps4 and 720 launch and we get their launch numbers we can compare that with the Wii U's sales numbers. Then we can get a good idea of which console had a better launch. How is the incorrect? Obviously thats not going to determine the best selling console but its one of the first data points we can can look at and compare.

              'I disagree with your assertions that the Wii U will mimick the success of the 360/PS3 simply on the basis that it might. Anything might happen. But I expect that 360/PS3/PC owners will be much more inclined to purchase a 720/PS4. As i've already made very clear. '

              You made the argument not me. I made no such assertions. I simply restated the point you made but changed to console in question from the Wii U to the ps3 and 360. Doing so invalidates your conclusion.

              'What is it with you and comparisons. Do you need to stand an elephant next to a tiger to determine which one is which. Can't you just identify an elephant standing on its own? Most of us can. '

              Because sales levels are solid factual evidence to determine how well each console is doing compared to one another. Its a clear marker of success, the one that sells the most is the most successful. Simple. This removes any bias or opinions on the matter. No one can refute sales figures.

              Thats all i have time for today nice arguing with you

    "You call the Wii U a failure because you dont like it plain and simple. Not for any other reason whatsoever. "

    I've explained why I call the Wii U a failure, in detail, directly to you, several times. I say so in the quote that you just made - "I call the Wii U a failure because it is not a thoroughly impressive piece if technology at launch, " . See.

    Just before I say...

    "Now, please, i've clarified this point many times. Don't make me repeat myself. "

    Which you also quoted.

    Stating this such as "Not for any other reason whatsoever. " is a bit pointless when I've provided my reasonings and is another example of why it's so annoying to deal with you. You don't read the comments that you respond to. Or you read them, and completely ignore them.

    " Look at playstation now. A shadow of its former self (compared to the ps2). "

    You've said this before. First time round I was smart enough not to be bothered to discuss it further with you. I've not put my smart hat on yet this morning,

    Yes, Sony is in financial trouble, Yes the PS3 hasn't been the success of the PS1 and PS2 in terms of numbers sold or market share gained.

    However, the PS3 has still been very much a success. It was blitzed by the Wii, which had meteoric success and then just died. Maybe life sales of PS3 will outsell life sales of Wii, maybe it won't. PS3 held it's own against the rising star that is the XBox, which is now a worthy and cemented competitor.

    Further, the PS3 was utterly successful in defeating HDDVD (or whatever it was called) and in heralding Blu-Ray as the defining form of physical media, and perhaps the last widespread and ubiquitous form of optical media. I'm not a media expert, some of my terminology may be incorrect.

    I'm also not explaining, or defending Sonys position because I'm a Playstation fan, but in order to respond to your comments with valid points for the sake of accuracy.

    "So while its good for gamers it isnt a good business model or financially sustainable. "

    Esablishing Blu-Ray as the dominant form of optical media has been good for business? Developing both the hard core and casual markets hasn't been good for business?

    " Do you think sony can do this again?"

    Do what? Produce a home console that is technically superior or at least a match for it's direct competitors, support it with a growing range of leading and exclusive IP, serve its long-term fanbase well with excellent third party developer support, free online and superior subscription based offerings, produce a highly reliable and well made piece of electronics and support the whole package with excellent marketing and branding. Oh yes. I think they can do that again. They've proven themselves to be a dab hand at that.

    It might not be a financial success even if they get everything right. They too must innovate (substantially) and offer a significantly compelling product. They too are in an ultra competitive market and will likely suffer the problem of a lack of differentiation between themselves and Micrsofts offering - and Microsoft are no longer considered the new kids on the block.

    "So despite being a nice idea its not something that any company will be likely to repeat. "

    Firstly, you're not making it clear as to what you're referring to - what are they not likely to repeat? Secondly you've provided no reasoning for assertions at all. Again, please put a little more effort into your comments.

    "Not in the current economic climate"

    In my opinion the competitive nature of the business is far more important than the economic climate. A lot of people are getting more and more into their Facebook, iOS and Android offerings. Casual and semi casual gamers may well choose not to bother with high tech consoles. Hardcore gamers might choose to stick with their PS3 or 360 for a few more years, or switch to F2P on their PC.

    Generations ago if you wanted to play games, and weren't into PC games, you had to purchase 1 of 2 or 3 consoles. There was limited choice. Now, we have a myriad of choice and a lot of the options are cheap or free. It's tough for the remaining console manufacturers to compete with that. That's why I don't find it an absurd concept for 1 of the 3 remaining console manufacturers to drop out of the market. Sony and MS have captured the hardcore market, in my opinion, far better than Nintendo has. Nintendo has made a leap for the casual market, and they scooped up lots of gold stars on the Wii, but then they lost a life and all their gold rings fell on the floor. Their scrambling to pick those gold rings up but many have fallen off the cliff or been swallowed by iOS / Android. In the meantime Sony and MS have been developing bigger and badder beasts that will give us bigger and badder FPSs and racing sims. And they've probably had a little ponder about the casual market too.
    Sony and Microsoft have fundamentally got their act together. Nintendo haven't.

    "As for the Wii U of course you will call it a hardware failure. As you have admitted you wont give it a chance to prove it self. "

    OK I feel the need to repeat myself again, seeing as you've basically ignored what i've previously clarified and are again essentially misrepresenting or poorly representing my comments.

    The Wii U is already a defined and launched products. The hardware is set. It is (virtually) unchangeable at this point. There is no opportunity to prove itself. It's had that opportunity. The verdict is in. You may have acquitted but the jury found it guilty. Hey, I'm just the judge.

    ""You need to qualify your statements with 'IMO' or explain that its your opinion and not try to express them as matter of fact. "

    No I don't. I'm free to treat readers of my comments as adults and expect them to apply common sense and identify that my opinion based opinions are indeed opinions.

    "Why should we take your comments seriously if you have rubbished the gamepad concept"

    Because I rubbished the gamepad concept, and did so at the point of announcement. One of the reasons why i've been commenting about Wii U is because I'm not only dumb-founded (perhaps literally incorrect seeing as i've been quite vocal) about the lack of compelling-ness of the machine, but also because of the industrys celebration of the Wii U at the point of its announcement. Sure, the journalists are no ho-hum about it, but why were they so in awe of the machine in the first place. Nintendo-itis. Journalists not being journalists. But journalists being hype-train fanboys. Those journalists that hurrahed the Wii U on announcement and then are ho-hum about it now ought to give themselves a good long look in the mirror. Are they in the industry just to wet their pants or to be objective in their analysis and estimation of industry offerings.

    " future AAA games before they have even come out? "

    What future AAA games? Mario Party WIi U? 101 Platinum party games thing? Yeah, they might be fine and dandy but they're not going to be the exhilarating experience that Halo 5 will be. Or Uncharted 4. Sure, the next MoHs and CoDs will also be on Wii U but will they match the PS4 or 720 offerings? I blinking well hope not. If the PS4/720 games are dragged down to Wii U levels I think all hardcore gamers will be royally peed off. No, it's far more likely that the Wii U will either be abandoned or be palmed off with ports of games for the outgoing gen - much the same way that Wii was handed PSP ported games.

    "i wont ever be so closed minded like you to think that they wont be able to offer anything worth the price of admission. I feel they will both have something to offer."

    Another misrepresentation of my comments, It becomes annoying you know. A discussion shouldnt be about having to clarify statements again and again. One party should represent their thoughts, the other party should put effort into understanding them. You just don't seem to bother and splurt out whatever you want.

    I personally won't buy a PS4/720 at or close to launch unless it's around $400, maybe $500. I've said this before. I'm just repeating myself. I think many PS3/360 owners will also hold off - due to being well satisfied with our existing game collection, and the PS4/720 currently looking (in my eyes, based on my understanding) as not necessarily a massive leap. Yes, of course the PS4/720 will offer something, probably many things. Of course they will be superior to the current outgoing gen. I've not said otherwise.

    Here's my situation. Assassins Creed 3 and Far Cry 3 were recently launched. So was Black Ops 2. Army of 2 - The Citadel, Tomb Raider and Bioshock will soon be launched. The Last of Us and probably MW4 will be launched later this year. In 2014 we might get Black Ops 3, Rainbow 6, a new Dirt. I would like to play all of these games.

    I own but have not played Assassins Creed 1 and 2. I own but have barely played Far Cry 2. I own but have only played Black Ops 1 the one time. I've recently purchased MW1 and haven't played it yet (but finished it on the PC years ago). I've recently started playing Spec Ops on MW2 with my wife. I've recently started playing MW3 and Battlefield 3 on multiplayer. I've not bought Saints Row 3, as I own and haven't played Saints Row 2. I've not bought Mass Effect 3 as I own and haven't played Mass Effect 2. I also own and haven't played Deus Ex, GTA IV, MGS IV, Arkham Asylum, Unreal Tournament 3, MAG, Burnout Paradise. a range of fitness and Move games. I've barely touched FIFA, and i've barely touched several driving games and want to dive much. much more into those that I have played.

    Once I get through the games that I own, and will continue to acquire through PSN+ giveaways and reduced price impulse buys, then I will start purchasing those games that i've initially mentioned (Ass Cred 3, Far Cry 3 etc). By the time I go through those, 2014s games will probably be low cost.

    The PS3 can serve me for several more years. I shouldnt buy another console. I might buy another console anyway, but in terms of making a sensible and practical purchase, I shouldn't.

    I think many people are in my situation. They have games that they've not played - much or at all That they still want to play. They've bought games for $80, $60, $50, $30, $20 that haven't been opened. They've done that 10, 20, 40, 50 times. That's a fair amount of wastage. There's a reluctance to repeat that process.

    "When the ps4 and 720 launch and we get their launch numbers we can compare that with the Wii U's sales numbers. Then we can get a good idea of which console had a better launch. "

    You're continuing to make pointless, inane and unnecessary comparisons. I'm not going to explain my comments in regards to your comparisons - I have on at least 2 occassions. Why give you the opportunity to ignore my comments for a 3rd time.

    "Thats all i have time for today nice arguing with you"

    I think you're right - in that this has been an argument. I've not wanted it to be. I've been discussing things. I've been attempting to have a discussion. But given that you misquote, misrepresent, make no sense, ignore or misconstrue basic statemtents it probably is more accurate to describe this as having been an argument. Which isn't nice. And is a shame.

    Terrak. Please, do me a favour, don't engage in a discussion with me again. Thank you.

      'I've explained why I call the Wii U a failure, in detail, directly to you, several times. I say so in the quote that you just made - "I call the Wii U a failure because it is not a thoroughly impressive piece if technology at launch, " . See.

      Whether you repeated or not or believe you have doesnt take away the fact that your reasoning for thinking the Wii U is a failure is simply an opinion without any facts or evidence to support. The real measure of success or failure is plain and simple - sales. You see when a product appeals to more people and profit its a success. A failure is a product that fails to be profitable and ceases to exist. Now i dont know how you define it but its obviously not factually based. You see a sale is basically like a vote from the consumer. The more sales the more votes the more success. Thats the simplest and fairest way to define success. By all accounts your definition of success is solely based on your personal preferences. However this is completely utterly wrong. You seem to have some misguided view that your opinion is higher then anyone elses. Its not. All opinions are equal. If you believe otherwise the only person your fooling is yourself. Secondly you have absolutely nothing backing up your claims. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Repeating baseless claims like you are doing doesnt suddenly make them correct. Repeat yourself all you like. Doesnt remove the fact that the statements you are repeating are wrong.

      'Stating this such as "Not for any other reason whatsoever. " is a bit pointless when I've provided my reasonings and is another example of why it's so annoying to deal with you. You don't read the comments that you respond to. Or you read them, and completely ignore them. '

      Repeating your biased opinion is not reasoning. You have none. You have no sales stats to back up your claims and simply base your argument on -

      a) its marginally better hardware (in your opinion, we have not seen the best the Wii U has to offer yet)
      b) the hardcore have ignored the Wii U (in your opinion no sales data or facts support your claim)
      c) Hasnt sold as well as the Wii (No console in the past decade has)
      d) The gamepad is useless (yet your great idea was a thirdparty gamepad why would you come up with such an idea if you think the gamepad is useless?)
      d) You hate Nintendo

      All of your reasoning is opinion based. None are factually based. Repeating your opinion does not make it fact.

      'Yes, Sony is in financial trouble, Yes the PS3 hasn't been the success of the PS1 and PS2 in terms of numbers sold or market share gained.' then '

      'However, the PS3 has still been very much a success.'

      Hypocrite if ever i heard it. You call the Wii U a failure because it failed to sell as well as the Wii. Yet the ps3 is a mere shadow of its predecessor sales wise (barely half the ps2 sales) yet your quite happy to call it a success. There goes your credibility.

      ' It was blitzed by the Wii, which had meteoric success and then just died. Maybe life sales of PS3 will outsell life sales of Wii, maybe it won't. PS3 held it's own against the rising star that is the XBox, which is now a worthy and cemented competitor. '

      Ps3 catch up to Wii Sales? Your dreaming. Wii is almost 100 million WW sales. the ps3 is close to 80million sales. The Wii still sells today, low sales maybe but sells despite Nintendo pulling the plug on any new software for it.

      'Do what? Produce a home console that is technically superior or at least a match for it's direct competitors, support it with a growing range of leading and exclusive IP, serve its long-term fanbase well with excellent third party developer support, free online and superior subscription based offerings, produce a highly reliable and well made piece of electronics and support the whole package with excellent marketing and branding. Oh yes. I think they can do that again. They've proven themselves to be a dab hand at that. '

      Wow so theres your bias in a nut shell. Your description of success. Look what its got sony. By 'do you think they will do it again' i meant do you think they will sell a product and absorb $300 on each sale like they did for the ps3. Obviously you've used this as an excuse to praise sony instead of answering the question. Its fanbase has basically halved since the ps2 so it must not be serving its userbase so great but thats success in your eyes. Half your original fanbase. Free online? So does the Wii U. Cant fault the subscription based service but its something you pay for. Its up to the consumer to see if its worth it. It might be worth it for you but not everyone. Highly reliable piece of electronics? Maybe to the 360 but my Wii is still functioning to this day, as is my gamecube and N64. Its not the only one that makes sturdy consoles. IMO i dont think sony will absorb those types of losses to make its next console.

      'Sony and MS have captured the hardcore market, in my opinion, far better than Nintendo has. Nintendo has made a leap for the casual market, and they scooped up lots of gold stars on the Wii, but then they lost a life and all their gold rings fell on the floor. Their scrambling to pick those gold rings up but many have fallen off the cliff or been swallowed by iOS / Android.'

      LOL you forget history dont you. Remember the ps2. Sony had all the thirdparty support and all the games all to itself (and a 150million userbase). So what happened? I didnt see all the ps2 users automatically transfer to the ps3. If anything half its users migrated from sonys console. What im getting at is that just because the ps3 and 360 had the hardcore market now doesnt mean its guaranteed to get it in the next console generation. The ps2 and ps3 example proves my point. Why did this happen. Well sony lost exclusivity with all the thirdparty titles it had enjoyed during the ps2 era. Its that simple. Of course this doesnt mean they wont get it either, but you are so certain they will. Which is simply an optimistic view with out any real factual basis.

      ' In the meantime Sony and MS have been developing bigger and badder beasts that will give us bigger and badder FPSs and racing sims. And they've probably had a little ponder about the casual market too.
      Sony and Microsoft have fundamentally got their act together. Nintendo haven't. ''

      Bigger badder beasts? Must i repeat the Better graphics doesnt equal more sales argument which you yourself admitted is true? Badder FPS and racing sims? So far all we know is that they will be better looking versions of the same franchises. Sure they will be great, however its not the only thing that defines a great experience. Your personal opinion also is not the only example of what makes a better gaming experience.

      NIntendo dont have their act together? Their products have been profitable and still enjoy sales supremacy. Same cant be said for Nintendos competitors. Sony and microsoft wishes their consoles were doing as well sales and profit wise then Nintendos console. Why do Nintendo get their act together? because you said so? LOL. Sure they have to fix up things with the Wii U no doubt, but in terms of whos in a better position in the console market today its definitely Nintendo both in terms of sales and profits which for businesses is all that matters.

      'Because I rubbished the gamepad concept, and did so at the point of announcement. One of the reasons why i've been commenting about Wii U is because I'm not only dumb-founded (perhaps literally incorrect seeing as i've been quite vocal) about the lack of compelling-ness of the machine, '

      You rubbished the concept but said that your idea of a third party gamepad would be great. Also if its such a crap concept why have you in the past said that the ps3/vita and 360/smartglass are viable alternatives? If you hated the concept of the gamepad then you should equally rubbish those alternatives. You havent. You like the concept but because its Nintendo you hate it. When the competitors release a competing product its all of the sudden a good idea. BTW i once had an argument with some one else who thought the gamepad wasnt a great idea. When i asked him about the ps3/vita and 360/smartglass alternatives guess what he said. They were rubbish too. Atleast he was consistent with his views. He didnt like the concept no matter who made it. Thats completely the opposite for you. You lack any consistency.

      'What future AAA games? Mario Party WIi U? 101 Platinum party games thing? Yeah, they might be fine and dandy but they're not going to be the exhilarating experience that Halo 5 will be. Or Uncharted 4. Sure, the next MoHs and CoDs will also be on Wii U but will they match the PS4 or 720 offerings? I blinking well hope not. If the PS4/720 games are dragged down to Wii U levels I think all hardcore gamers will be royally peed off. No, it's far more likely that the Wii U will either be abandoned or be palmed off with ports of games for the outgoing gen - much the same way that Wii was handed PSP ported games. '

      Halo sucks. I prefer Gears of War. But thats my preference. Love your selective choice of games. Wonderful 101 is looking great btw and there has been no mention of Mario Party for Wii U. However there is a whole slew of up coming games for the Wii U. Obviously none of Nintendos games are your cup of tea so i wont get into the specific games for you simply to say you dont like them. The games you list are what you like, thats great. But lets be clear your choice of games is not the be all and end all of gaming taste. Just because you dont like a game doesnt mean there arent people that enjoy that particular game. I personally dont like dance revolution but hey there are people that like it. Dont get all high and mighty thinking your choice in games is superior because you like uncharted 4 etc. Its not. Your entitled to your preferences as with all consumers. As i said before each sale is basically a consumers vote on what they want. If one sells more then more people prefer it.

      'No, it's far more likely that the Wii U will either be abandoned or be palmed off with ports of games for the outgoing gen - much the same way that Wii was handed PSP ported games. ''

      No facts here just opinion. Abandoned hahahah you wish

      'Another misrepresentation of my comments, It becomes annoying you know. A discussion shouldnt be about having to clarify statements again and again. One party should represent their thoughts, the other party should put effort into understanding them. You just don't seem to bother and splurt out whatever you want. '

      No its true. you are closed minded. Plain and simple. You dont like Nintendo or its products for one reason or another and dont think they can get any better. Sorry if the term closed minded troubles you but as they say, 'if the shoe fits wear it'. I may not like ps3 or 360 but im not closed minded to believe that they have no compelling products to offer. Despite similar products being available on PC and much better looking i have an open mind that those consoles have something to offer. See your different. You think Nintendo has nothing to offer. Obviously its an opinion and not fact. But the fact that you hold such a view makes you closed minded. Hate the term if you like but it wont change the fact that you are indeed closed minded.

      'The PS3 can serve me for several more years. I shouldnt buy another console. I might buy another console anyway, but in terms of making a sensible and practical purchase, I shouldn't. '

      No one said you are forced to buy any console. Your free to choose as you wish.

      ' think you're right - in that this has been an argument. I've not wanted it to be. I've been discussing things. I've been attempting to have a discussion. But given that you misquote, misrepresent, make no sense, ignore or misconstrue basic statemtents it probably is more accurate to describe this as having been an argument. Which isn't nice. And is a shame.

      Terrak. Please, do me a favour, don't engage in a discussion with me again. Thank you.'

      Hahaahhaah i simply had to sleep so i said that. I didnt want to waste any more time at 1am in the morning.
      Discussion? Ha! Its merely been you filling Nintendo articles with your obvious anti Nintendo sentiments based on opinion not facts and me shooting them down. You even admitted its all opinion based. So me pointing that out obviously bugs you. Doesnt bother me. If you continue to push your anti Nintendo opinions on Nintendo Articles dont expect me to stay silent. Sook and whine if you wish. Doesnt bother me one bit. I'll be happy to destroy your arguments like i have before. And yes i have destroyed your arguments. I know you wont accept it but hey you cant accept anything but what you believe so thats fine. I am happy to do it again. After all i have facts, logic and reason on my side. You have your opinions and nothing else. You can stop if you like thats fine too.

      Last edited 24/01/13 6:46 pm

        "Whether you repeated or not or believe you have doesnt take away the fact that your reasoning for thinking the Wii U is a failure is simply an opinion without any facts or evidence to support. "

        Firstly, i've repeated it because you fail to acknowledge the points that i've made,as you've done with this quote too. Annoying.

        "By all accounts your definition of success is solely based on your personal preferences. "

        Incorrect, baseless comment.

        "You seem to have some misguided view that your opinion is higher then anyone elses. I"

        Incorrect, baseless comment. 

        "All opinions are equal."

        Debatable.

        " Secondly you have absolutely nothing backing up your claims. "

        Wrong

        "Zero. Zilch. Nada."

        Wrong, Wrong. Wrong.

        "Repeat yourself all you like."

        I've told you why i've repeated myself. It's not because I like to.

        "d) You hate Nintendo"

        Incorrect, baseless comment.

        "Hypocrite if ever i heard it"

        Incorrect, baseless comment.

        "You call the Wii U a failure because it failed to sell as well as the Wii. "

        Wrong.

        "Why did this happen. Well sony lost exclusivity with all the thirdparty titles it had enjoyed during the ps2 era. Its that simple. "

        Wrong.

        " Of course this doesnt mean they wont get it either, but you are so certain they will. "

        Wrong.

        " Must i repeat the Better graphics doesnt equal more sales argument which you yourself admitted is true? "

        No, you mustn't.

        "Their products have been profitable and still enjoy sales supremacy. "

        Wrong.

        " in terms of whos in a better position in the console market today its definitely Nintendo both in terms of sales and profits which for businesses is all that matters."

        Wrong. On at least one count, potentially multiple.

        "You rubbished the concept but said that your idea of a third party gamepad would be great."

        Wrong, haven't double checked though.

        "If you hated the concept of the gamepad then you should equally rubbish those alternatives."

        Wrong. Bad logic.

        "You like the concept but because its Nintendo you hate it. "

        Wrong.

        "You lack any consistency."

        Wrong, Lacking some consistency, sure, my views are flexible certainly, Lack any consistency just plain wrong. Bit mean too. You're being a meanie.

        "there has been no mention of Mario Party for Wii U. "

        No official mention, but then there's not been official mention of anything pretty much. OK, I'll give myself a "wrong" - there are a handful of games that have been announced. Mario Party was featured in an article this morning, I think Kotaku, can't remember the details.

        "However there is a whole slew of up coming games for the Wii U"

        I suppose the right thing to do would be to check the definition of slew and see if there was any restrictions to it. My feeling is that you are technically correct but in the common sense of the word you are wrong.

        "Dont get all high and mighty thinking your choice in games is superior because you like uncharted 4 etc. "

        Pointless, troll-like comment.

        "Abandoned hahahah you wish"

        Wrong. I expect.

        "No its true. you are closed minded."

        Pointless, troll-like comment.

        " You dont like Nintendo or its products"

        Wrong.

        " You think Nintendo has nothing to offer. "

        Wrong. (Pointless, troll-like comment. )

        "But the fact that you hold such a view makes you closed minded."

        Wrong and wrong.

        "Hate the term if you like but it wont change the fact that you are indeed closed minded."

        Troll-like comment, although I will grant you that it is technically correct. Hating the term won't change the fact that i'm indeed closed minded, given that i'm not closed minded and given the fact that hating the term won't change anything.

        "No one said you are forced to buy any console. Your free to choose as you wish."

        I did not know that.

        "Its merely been you filling Nintendo articles with your obvious anti Nintendo sentiments based on opinion not facts and me shooting them down."

        Wrong and wrong.

        "So me pointing that out obviously bugs you. "

        Wrong. Especially when compared to the myriad of things that you do that do bug me. Why did I say comparison.

        " If you continue to push your anti Nintendo opinions on Nintendo Articles dont expect me to stay silent. "

        Troll-like comment, and, awww.

        "I'll be happy to destroy your arguments like i have before. "

        Wrong and delusional.

        " And yes i have destroyed your arguments"

        Wrong and still delusional.

        "I know you wont accept it but hey you cant accept anything but what you believe so thats fine. "

        Pointless, troll-like comment

        "After all i have facts, logic and reason on my side."

        Wrong. Hilarious, but wrong.

        "You have your opinions and nothing else. "

        Pointless, troll-like comment

        "You can stop if you like thats fine too."

        Great, thanks.

        Last edited 24/01/13 8:40 pm

          HAHAHAH thats all you got? WRONG WRONG WRONG? Typical weak and useless argument but i dont expect much from you other than anti Nintendo fanboy rambling. Lets see how wrong you are.

          a) You lack consistency. This is fact. When Nintendo does something its crap (ie gamepad) when a third party (like your supposed fantastic idea which i rubbished) or sony or microsoft do something similar its amazing. You see im consistent. I like motion control. I am happy to credit microsoft with Kinect and can acknowledge a good product, despite my dislike for the system. Being consistent adds to credibility, so thats minus one point off your credibility since you don't know how to be consistent.

          b) You say things without doing research. This is fact. You said the Wii U was being deliberately supply limited, when it wasn't. It was made mention on this very website. How can we take anything you say seriously when you have been so easily been found talking BS? You see i link my sources to prove my points because i do the research which adds validity to my arguments (you should try it one time). Also you said the 3DS didn't meet the heights of the DS. The fact is the 3DS took 8months what took a whole year of DS sales to achieve. When shown a factual link you started to backtrack and talk some nonsense when in simple terms you were proved utterly wrong. You failed to sustain the argument after i pointed this out. Why? Because you were found out talking nonsense. You were wrong plain and simple and couldn't admit it. Talking with out facts reduces your credibility

          c) You don't know anything about hardware. I may not know everything but i do build PCs as a hobby and i do my research so i have a good understanding of CPU and GPU etc. You made this long argument going on how mobile devices are catching up to PCs and consoles, but you were completely and utterly wrong (as usual). I easily dismantled your argument which you quickly abandoned after i embarrassed you. Do you think the mobile version of a ATI7870 or Nvidia 680 is the same as desktop version of the respective GPUs. After all you said that mobile products are matching the desktop counterparts. So by your (misguided) reasoning they should be exactly the same? EHH wrong. They are not. Mobile CPU or GPUs will never be the same as Desktop versions. Desktop versions dont have to worry about battery life or heat. Mobile devices do. LOL you thought because its quad core or something that its the same hahaha. That's why there is no chance of mobile devices out performing desktop devices. What about the talk of a your third party gamepad like device piggy backing off the 360 CPU and GPU like the Wii U hahahah priceless!! Here's a thought. Don't talk about stuff you don't have a clue about. Your Credibility??? if it wasn't already gone i most certainly has all but disappeared

          d) You cant back up what you say. You said the ps3/vita concept was exactly the same as the WiiU/Gamepad concept. When asked a simple question 'Can the Vita play full ps3 versions of Blackops and Assassins creed 3 like the Wii U gamepad can do you quickly abandon the discussion. That's because you can't back up your argument. You just say what comes out of your head without taking a minute or two to make sure its right. Also you said that the ps3/vita was the first to introduce WiiU/Gamepad combination. However the facts were that Nintendo had already started work on the Wii U as far back as 2008 well before the vita was released. You see i can back up what i say and you cant. Credibility and your arguments definitely do not go together

          e) You are A hypocrite. You talked so much about how the Wii U is a failure because it hasn't matched Wii sales (Wii Launch sales in US were over a million, the Wii U sales were about 890k). But at the same time were quick to call the ps3 a success. Hang on a second. The ps3 lost half the user base of the ps2 (ps3 user base less then 80 million the ps2 is around 150million). So when Nintendo's Wii U sales didn't match exactly Wii sales its a failure, but when sonys ps3 didn't match ps2 sales its a success (not even close to matching how about half)? I think you don't know what hypocrite means. Look it up. You are a perfect example. LOL as if i expected you to admit the truth.

          f) Rubbish analogies. When discussing what makes a console different you used a ridiculous car analogy. Toyota has 4 wheels or something so thats why the Wii U is basically the same as other consoles today. When i turned the analogy against you (well if cars are the same because they had 4 wheels well the snes is basically the same as the ps3. After all they play games right?according to your analogy) you realize how silly it was and dropped that like a rock. Smart move but it doesnt remove that fact that you dont know how to properly use analogies. I noticed you stopped using them altogether. That was thanks to me. Your welcome.

          g) Pretend you know factual numbers when you obviously don't. You keep mentioning that the Wii U hasn't brought in the hardcore in reality you have absolutely no way know or prove this point. Zero. Have you shown me credible links to a detailed breakdown of the gamers that bought the Wii U that claimed to be hardcore gamers? Of course not. It seems your old 'Because i said so' is the only facts you need. LOL. Hey I'm not going to argue because i myself don't know the exact make up of the Wii U owners either, because there has been no such study (that I'm aware of) And if you have one (a credible one) then i will be happily to concede that point. Until you do you have absolutely no basis to claim as such. Also if sales are anything to go by if the Wii U didn't get the hardcore what did the ps3 and 360 do during their launch? The Wii U outsold them by a significant margin (890k to ps3 which i think did 600k). So did the ps3 and 360 fail to get the hardcore to? I mean if you don't have a relevant study as i explained above to prove the hardcore aren't going to the Wii U you must be referring sales numbers and from what i see the Wii U has done a lot better then its competition.

          h) You are a troll. This is fact. Like i said. I may dislike the ps3 or 360 but i feel no need to rubbish every ps3 or 360 articles with baseless and bias opinions. I have no need to be so petty. I'm perfectly happy with my gaming choices and respect the gaming choices of others. I also respect and acknowledge the contributions of sony and microsoft as well. That's the way i am. This is NOT the way you are. You have no interest in Nintendos console at all. You have rubbished the gamepad concept (but love your third party gamepad and the ps3/vita plus 360 smartglass combos) and have admitted you think there is nothing compelling on the Wii U system now and ever. So why are you here? You have no interest in the system and your definitely not adding anything constructive (when you said nothing the Wii U has now and the future is compelling that says it all, that say your not trying to be constructive in anyway). You failed at introducing any real facts or evidence to support you negative views.So Why? Its simple. You want to rubbish Nintendo anyway you can. You think that by doing so can some how reduce sales of Nintendo products which will help your console of choice to succeed.(That is the ps3 of course). Hate to tell you that nonsense doesnt work. Yup whether you like it or not, whether its your intention or not you are an internet troll, and anti Nintendo one to be specific. What you call me a troll too. How cute. Wheres your evidence.... oh wait sorry its you i forgot. You dont need evidence or facts, logic, consistency. Whoops.

          Theres the truth in a nutshell. Your obviously not going to continue the argument so i decided to discredit you. Well it wasnt hard after all. I know you wont take what i said lightly its a bit hard to swallow the truth, but you cant argue against the facts oh wait thats what you always do. My bad.

          Thanks for playing.

          Last edited 25/01/13 1:17 am

    "HAHAHAH thats all you got? WRONG WRONG WRONG? ""

    That's all you are.

    "Mobile CPU or GPUs will never be the same as Desktop versions. "

    Mobile CPUs or GPUs are superior to PS2 and Xbox yes? The quality of iOS/Android games are roughly equivalent, and frequently superior to PSN and MS Live game, no?

    So we're not pretending that mobile games aren't impressive, right?

    And we know that mobiles have had frequent and consistent improvements, yes?

    Now the CPUs are dual core, quad core?

    Now the smartphone and tablet form factors are the hottest growth area in the whole of tech?

    What is your point. Yes. You are 100% correct. Mobile CPU or GPUs will never be the same as Desktop versions. I never said otherwise. If you read my comments properly you would know that. You're annoying.

    "You cant back up what you say. You said the ps3/vita concept was exactly the same as the WiiU/Gamepad concept. "

    Quote please.

    "When asked a simple question 'Can the Vita play full ps3 versions of Blackops and Assassins creed 3 like the Wii U gamepad can do you quickly abandon the discussion."

    You think that people back out of discussions with you because they're afraid of losing? Perhaps it's because what you're saying make no sense. Is wildly wrong. Because you misread and misquote the others discussing the topic.

    "Also you said that the ps3/vita was the first to introduce WiiU/Gamepad combination. However the facts were that Nintendo had already started work on the Wii U as far back as 2008 well before the vita was released. "

    Do you know what the word introduce means? Could you spend those 2 to 3 minutes that you mentioned to look that up please. You want to back up your facts? The Vita and PS3 combo was introduced prior to the Wii U wasn't it? It's a simple question, with a simple answer Yes. And as it happens it's very uninteresting to me. Don't think that it's a big bone of contention. It is not. The Vita / PS3 combo appears to have failed. People aren't a buzz with the function.

    "you realize how silly it was and dropped that like a rock. "

    If I dropped that like a rock, how do you know what I realized? Are you psychic?

    Hey Terrak, I just had an idea. Why don't you go on and on about the PS3 and 360 launch to prove me wrong about the Wii U not being a compelling machine.

    "You are a troll. This is fact. Like i said. I may dislike the ps3 or 360 but i feel no need to rubbish ps3 or 360 articles with baseless and bias opinions."

    OK, let's use these two sentences to highlight your reasoning capabilities. First off you make a false determination of fact, but let's let that slide. Then somehow you tie this in to what you dislike. What has me being a troll got to do with you not rubbishing articles. How are the 2 connected? They are completely unrelated, yet somehow you manage to squeeze every illogical thought you have into the same topic.

    "You think that by doing so can some how reduce sales of Nintendo products which will help your console of choice to succeed.(That is the ps3 of course)."

    You're absurd. Your claims are absurd. Your views are absurd. Also, the Wii U shouldn't be competing with the PS3. It's shameful that it is.

    "What you call me a troll too. How cute. Wheres your evidence.... oh wait sorry its you i forgot. You dont need evidence or facts, logic, consistency. Whoops."

    If you recall, every time i've highlighted your comments as being, or perhaps being, trolling, i've provided a quote, and where I felt it appropriate, an explanation. You've just chosen to call me a troll. Several times. And not provided any quotes. Which is probably a good thing because ur not very good with quotes.

      'That's all you are.'

      And there you go again with no proof. Basically all you do.

      'What is your point. Yes. You are 100% correct. Mobile CPU or GPUs will never be the same as Desktop versions. I never said otherwise. If you read my comments properly you would know that. You're annoying. '

      EHHHHH wrong. Thats not what you said. Lie all you like. You said that consoles in general will disappear because things like tablets and mobiles are getting as good and eventually match desktop equivalents. THATS WHAT YOU SAID. You cant even remember what you said. But in any case you were utterly wrong.

      'Quote please.'

      Wow now you want me to show quotes when you have hardly ever in your arguments??? Love the hypocrisy. I will show you that argument no problem but i need to find it under the massive volume posts.

      'You think that people back out of discussions with you because they're afraid of losing? Perhaps it's because what you're saying make no sense. Is wildly wrong. Because you misread and misquote the others discussing the topic. '

      Really?? You said that the ps3/vita combo is exactly the same. I didnt mis read anything. Your simply backpeddling once you realized your wrong.

      'Do you know what the word introduce means? Could you spend those 2 to 3 minutes that you mentioned to look that up please. You want to back up your facts? The Vita and PS3 combo was introduced prior to the Wii U wasn't it? It's a simple question, with a simple answer Yes. And as it happens it's very uninteresting to me. Don't think that it's a big bone of contention. It is not. The Vita / PS3 combo appears to have failed. People aren't a buzz with the function. '

      Sorry Nintendo was first with the concept. They were working on the concept as far back as 2008. The fact that they didnt show it doesnt take away the fact that they had already had the concept up and running well before the vita showed up.

      'Hey Terrak, I just had an idea. Why don't you go on and on about the PS3 and 360 launch to prove me wrong about the Wii U not being a compelling machine. '

      No consoles is that compelling at launch. What Kameo on the 360 and that game made by that 'hit its weak point for massive damage' developer (i forgot the name) for the ps3 are the most compelling things to remember about those consoles? I dont think so. So why complain about Nintendos non compelling launch when all consoles suffer it? Its normal get a grip. See i can admit the facts.

      'OK, let's use these two sentences to highlight your reasoning capabilities. First off you make a false determination of fact, but let's let that slide. Then somehow you tie this in to what you dislike. What has me being a troll got to do with you not rubbishing articles. How are the 2 connected? They are completely unrelated, yet somehow you manage to squeeze every illogical thought you have into the same topic. '

      Yeah go look up what an internet troll is. You have no intention to buy Nintendo Wii U yet you like to spend alot of time on articles about Wii U. I have no intention to buy sony or microsoft consoles and i dont spend anytime (well once or twice in a year) on those articles. Thats the difference between us. You think what i am doing is trollish? Ha im defending Nintendo on a Nintendo article. If were to go to ps3 or 360 websites and act like you but this time praising Nintendo i would expect the same treatment i am giving you.

      Why cant you argue my other points? Because you cant.

        "EHHHHH wrong. Thats not what you said. Lie all you like."

        Quote me then.

        "You said that consoles in general will disappear because things like tablets and mobiles are getting as good and eventually match desktop equivalents. THATS WHAT YOU SAID.""

        No, it isn't.

        "Wow now you want me to show quotes when you have hardly ever in your arguments???"

        Terrak, you have the dreadful habit of saying that I said this or that, when whatever it is you're saying that i've said is far from the case. It's rude and does not contribute to a discussion. You've done this so many times that I no longer have the energy to firstly assume that you're correct and honest, and secondly to decipher your meaning, and thirdly to explain how you've managed to misinterpret clearly made statements.

        "Really?? You said that the ps3/vita combo is exactly the same. "

        Quote me then. You'll find a quote of me discussing the topic, but not making the declaration that you claim, which is why I ask you to produce a quote, so that we can all see and confirm your habit of misquoting and misrespenting - as well as misinterpreting.

        But, for a second time, you've chosen not to do that.

        "Sorry Nintendo was first with the concept. They were working on the concept as far back as 2008. The fact that they didnt show it doesnt take away the fact that they had already had the concept up and running well before the vita showed up."

        Yes, and just because Nintendo thought of the concept right does not mean you're right to say that they were the first to introduce the concept (by release, to the market) as they weren't. This is merely one example of many showing the inaccuracies of your statements. And if I remember correctly you were referring to something that I had said (although I can't be bothered to double check this) and if so, is a clear example of you being a) wrong and b) happy to misrepresent my comments.

        "So why complain about Nintendos non compelling launch when all consoles suffer it? Its normal get a grip. See i can admit the facts. "

        You can admit facts. But the problem is that you admit to and relish in irrelevant facts and topics. The success or failure of the PS3s launch has no bearing on the success or failure of the Wii Us launch. They're 2 completely different entities that occurred at significantly different points in time. Fine, you're entitled to harp on about those launches if you wish to, but to do so in a discussion with me is pointless. Unless you have a point, a relevant one, which you don't. So please, don't get a grip - drop it.

        "I have no intention to buy sony or microsoft consoles and i dont spend anytime"

        So? How is that in any way relevant to the discussion. Are you hoping that i'll be sending you a medal? If you want to comment in a 360 article, comment in a 360 article, if you don't, don't. Gees.

        "Why cant you argue my other points? Because you cant."

        You could be a little more specific, I think you have many points, but the main reasons why I've not responded to them would be:-

        - I've no idea what your point was
        - Your point was poorly made and largely uninteresting
        - Your point was based on a misunderstanding or misrepresentation of my previous comments, or of the facts of the situation
        - I've lost the energy to wish to explain to you things that were clearly stated in the first place again and again

        Those would be the most common reasons.

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