The consensus on last week’s post about the lack of women presenters at Sony’s PS4 event was rather uniform: there were no women at the PlayStation 4 reveal, because obviously there aren’t women in high positions and the project leads just happen to be male.
“The reason there were no women on-stage is because the presidents and developers who happened to develop the software being presented happened to be male,” wrote commenter hsuadfhaspodhf on Kotaku. “It is not part of some sexist agenda, it just so happens that the people behind the creation of the content being presented happened to be men.”
To add to that, a common perception seems to be that there aren’t women in high positions like the project leads that were featured, so that’s why it happened. That’s just the reality, some people said, while ignoring why things like that happen in the first place and what it has to do with gender.
Yesterday, noted developer Kellee Santiago — formerly of Thatgamecompany, behind recent PlayStation indie darling, Journey — tweeted these things:
There are women in high positions at Sony who were qualified to speak yesterday at or around the press conf. Sony chose not to show them.
— Kellee Santiago (@KelleeSan) February 21, 2013
@kittygetwet this is what I'm sick of hearing. They didn't need to scrape the bottom to find women. There are women directors and execs.
— Kellee Santiago (@KelleeSan) February 21, 2013
@_zzzoom_ That women execs at Sony exist, even if the PS4 doesn't yet.
— Kellee Santiago (@KelleeSan) February 21, 2013
Hmm, that doesn’t quite gel with the common perception, does it? I reached out to Kellee to see if she’d be willing to elaborate on the subject. Here’s what she said:
I think it’s time for us as an industry to tale some responsibility in how we represent ourselves. Like the DICE awards had one woman….not even proportional to the industry itself, much less any attempt to be more inclusive! And I got weary with many of the comments to your article that it’s just because there don’t happen to be women in these positions, and we should get over it. Someone on my FB said it well, that as small as it still might be, there IS much more diversity in game development now, but the representation remains the same and I think that speaks to why we feel more frustrated this year than in the past.
The truth is, some percentage of the people that tuned in yesterday to get excited about the new console were women. And yet again, we were told “Not by you, not for you.” It feels like the industry should be past this by now, no?
Emphasis mine.
I’ve reached out to Sony for comment on the situation, but in the meantime, it seems worth saying that the conversation — for me at least — isn’t so much to say Sony or PS4 developers are sexist. That’s an easily derailed conversation that will revolve around disputing what type of companies these are.
There were no women presenters. You can argue to hell and back over what type of company Sony or developers for the PS4 are, but the reality remains the same: there were no women presenters and it wasn’t for a lack of having women executives. A cursory LinkedIn search can show you that much.
Noticing this fact isn’t a call for affirmative action, and it’s not about getting enraged about sexism.
It’s about opening up an conversation as to why this happens at events like the PS4 unveil — perhaps, to talk about women in STEM fields (science, technology, engineering and maths) and the issues they face. Because whether or not there are some women working in these fields, there still aren’t enough, and it’s an issue. There are entire programs created by educational institutions and the government to get more women in these fields-because yes, it’s a problem.
There are fewer women in these field than men, and they earn less, to boot. Recent years have seen a decline in female representation, according to a survey Harvey Nash.
Writing about that survey for Forbes, Meghan Casserly says:
Just nine per cent of US chief information officers (CIOs) are female, down from 11 per cent last year and 12 per cent in 2010. According to Reuters, 30 per cent of the 450 American tech executives polled said their IT groups have no women at all in management positions. What’s more, when the same group of executives was asked whether women were underrepresented, roughly one half said no.
The reason why this happens is not clear, though there are many theories. The study by the ESA here postulates the following:
The underrepresentation of women in STEM majors and jobs may be attributable to a variety of factors. These may include different choices men and women typically make in response to incentives in STEM education and STEM employment
For example, STEM career paths may be less accommodating to people cycling in and out of the workforce to raise a family or it may be because there are relatively few female STEM role models. Perhaps strong gender stereotypes discourage women from pursuing STEM education and STEM jobs.
While this report does not and cannot explain why gender differences in STEM exist, it does aim to provide data and insight that will enable more informed policymaking. The findings provide definitive evidence of a need to encourage and support women in STEM with a goal of gender parity.
Given the high quality, well paying jobs in the fields of science, technology, engineering and maths, there is great opportunity for growth in STEM in support of American competitiveness, innovation and jobs of the future.
You might note that, crucially, one of the factors the ESA lists is a lack of role models. And as the PS4 event shows us, the role models that do exist? They’re less visible thanks both to smaller numbers, and in some ways, outright erasure.
Because what else would you call wrongly saying there are no women in high positions in game development except erasure?
REALLY?!
REALLY, REALLY?!
My god…
Pretty much my reaction too, with a classic facepalm.
My reaction was somewhat similar…except I had an additional “f*****g” in between “My” and “God”.
Can they prove that Sony DELIBERATELY and ACTIVELY chose not to feature women?? Or did Sony merely happen to choose the most skilled or capable presenters and they happen to be men?
Seriously, do they also need to find a gay employee and put them on stage at every event they hold? What about an Asian? American Indian? Oh, how about a Muslim? And an Atheist too?
This is a retarded argument and is only making feminism look bad
This is stupid. If they did not have a black person on stage does that make them racist? Why does something always supposedly have to have an ulterior motive.
There were no tacos at the event either. OMG Sony must hate Mexicans.
Seriously, is “journalism” now just making up bullshit for the sake of a headline and “hits” rather than actual news.
She makes a lot of noise over non-stories. Patricia Hernandez is doing a huge disservice to other women in games, by only approaching it in the most juvenile and simplistic manner. Watch gameplay/game event > count females > bitch. This doesn’t solve anything, it just distracts us from the real issues with inconsequential shit.
Patricia Hernandez is probably just using Kotaku as a personal soapbox to put “Gaming Feminist Pioneer” on her CV To leverage into another job. Too bad she’s toxic, can’t write for squat, and everyone who reads her articles instantly loathes her. It’s ‘clickbait’, but if you’re pushing out an article every 20 minutes, make it small pieces of interesting, digestible news. Don’t try to shove a misguided agenda down our throats.
I agree, these feminist, petty and juvenile articles claiming sexism at every turn are getting old quick. And are do not belong here. The lack of women presenters is bigger then Sony? Yeah right :-/
you’ve got her completely wrong. she’s writing about serious gender issues in gaming solely so she can shove it down your throat.
@Strand, this comment could match any number of her other articles, but I don’t feel this one quite deserves it. At least this article takes things past shallow symptoms and starts to reveal some of the under-workings of the gaming industry.
If the presence of women working in gaming is still far less then men, isn’t that something we might want to look at? How might the games industry benefit from the added diversity? Nobody’s saying Sony purposefully avoided having women presenters, but if they had the numbers to do it, and thought to, it could have been an encouraging gesture.
Of course that last paragraph lashing out with ‘erasure’ just threw any chance of conversation. Poor form 🙁
People called this article from the start. Patricia is the blurst.
Things are better now for women than they were say ten years ago.
In another ten years things will likely better still. Things will gradually get better.
And that’s great. But hardly worth the numerous articles this feminism/sexism stuff is spawning.
This smells a little like damage control to me but whatever.
I have not looked at that Linkedin link because I don’t have an account with them, but just because there are women execs at Sony doesn’t mean they could have been an appropriate choice with regards to presenting new technology.
It is equally likely that they work departments that wouldn’t be useful in presenting the PS4, like HR or Distribution or any of the many facets of the Sony corporation (seeing as Sony makes a hell of a lot of products other than the PS4, not to mention all the support departments like HR and Legal and retail management etc).
There are a huge number of departments in Sony that would have nothing to do with gaming, so as far as I am concerned the argument that there might not have been any women who could have presented the PS4 could still be valid.
Of course, anyone with a Linkedin account is welcome to refute anything I have just said.
Was thinking the same thing (I also don’t have an account to look). I worked in a department where there were quite a few women in high positions; we did a lot of large projects for a variety of clients. Some of our areas (mainly long-term contracts) had female leads, while others (often one-off construction projects) were mainly populated by men, since they came from construction backgrounds (ex-tradies etc) which is a male-dominated field. So some clients wouldn’t even know we had women in positions of power, others would think nothing but. It’s all a matter of perspective.
Of course then you could say “why aren’t there more women in the construction industry”, which parallels the “why aren’t there more women in the video games industry”. I’m frankly a bit annoyed that these articles seem to have their heart in the right place, but the real, important message is being lost with almost flame-bait material like “why didn’t they use women from such and such position”. It’s inciting annoyance from readers and distracting them from the real issues.
“They’re less visible thanks both to smaller numbers, and in some ways, outright erasure”.
I’m not about to say there isn’t a problem with female representation at the high end of the corporate structure, and I was agreeing with a lot of what this article was saying, but that last paragraph went and ruined everything. This kind of fingerpointing isn’t helping anything, it’s not opening a discussion, it’s just throwing wild accusations around and distracting from the real bigger issues.
I don’t think organisations should need to make an effort to field a politically correct public presentation group. If all is going well in regards to equal opportunity, a diverse group will emerge by default.
What I think is a bigger consideration was that the people who just happened to be the relevant people to speak about the project were all male. It seems to me if an organisation did have equal opportunities, then there would be an roughly even split by default. There would be no need to ask the question “Are we fielding a diverse group?” because it already would be by default.
It is entirely possible to toss a coin ten times and get heads every time.
You’re mostly right, but equal opportunities still does not mean an even split by default.
What if a company just happens to receive more male applicants than females?
Equal opportunity would dictate that applicants will be employed based on skill and not gender, hence through the wonders of statistics the company would magically consist of mostly male employees.
Patricia and everyone else who is in support of this particular case is definitely NOT fighting for equal opportunity…they are fighting for selective opportunity in favour of womenfolk.
Not all is going well in equal opportunity though. You have a reasonable but idealistic view, it’s simply not how things work yet. Things don’t just improve on their own.
The article was somewhat sensationalist but Patricia’s heart is in the right place. It’d really encourage some women to actually make the step and enter the game industry if they saw a woman presenting at a high profile event like this. More people joining the industry means bigger pool to find the best talent for development jobs. Good for the industry, and closer to that ideal dream.
Also, “well paid jobs in the field of science… maths” That is pretty amusing. Most of my friends work in science or have just finished various science degrees and there’s bugger all jobs for them, let alone well paid ones.
https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7078003456/hDC6DA908/
What a shocking article, though it’s sure to bring the traffic in. We see plenty of women at e3 each year, and other large conferences like TED. If a woman was directing my game I sure as hell wouldn’t want them acting like you are Patricia; it would just be full of mundane political correctness.
Seriously?? I hate being ropes into these by the way it’s written, but why not…
If Patricia believes what she writes in this article then how about you try this ok?
1. Find out if for EVERY presenter/ person on stage that night has a female counterpart in that position at each respective company.
2. Once you do… Don’t go complain to Sony about it, go and complain to each dev and ask them ALL why a female wasn’t on stage.
This article is weak journalism. You really COULD do more about it and do more research, but instead you use blanket words and overreaching point with no real back up.
If you can do what I suggested then we have something tangible to go on. But this article is junk! Sloppy… But hey, whatever gets hits right?
It actually pisses me off that somethin that DOES probably need to be looked into more is being used cheaply and being half assed
Why is this even remotely an issue? I bet these people would complain if there is 10 men and ONLY 9 females. Its like every show with a group of protagonists, there always has to be a female and black person in the group otherwise its racist and sexist.
Which is why every education facility has that PC picture on their website with as many race/gender combinations as they can fit.
These articles hardly address issues related to gender in the industry. Rather, they nitpick and point the finger at others for trivial things just to make a little noise.
Women have featured predominately in major gaming presentations and E3 for decades now.
For this conference, the people necessary to project Sony’s future plans were male.
It’s not a sexist agenda. It’s just common sense.
And how long will it take for people to say, “I’m so disappointed in Kotaku readers!” just because they disagree with the author? I’m guessing it won’t take long.
I’m sorry, but saying something is sexist just because someone decides to write a victimist article about it doesn’t make it so.
The fact Sony has female execs suggests that, erm, it’s not sexist at all.
“Sony didn’t have female presenters! We must discuss this! They might be sexist (but I won’t say they are directly, just to remain diplomatic). Here: Look! They have female execs that didn’t present. Disgraceful!”
Epic LOLs. Sony probably does more for gender issues in games than this author could ever hope to achieve.
Has the author even contacted or made a call-out for female Sony execs? Very curious to see if they subscribe to this frustrating commentary.
I, for one, am outraged that Shigeru Miyamoto is not a woman.
I clicked the article. You win, Patricia. You win.
Damn, if only they’d thought to keep a token female presenter to please the politically correct crowd. Then there’s a chance Patricia would only be harping on them for not having any black presenters or something.
Nah, then she’d be questioning why there wasn’t a precisely equal amount of female presenters, who am I kidding?
I’m sure someone at Sony -decided- against the inclusion of any females, for sure. Seems like a good publicity move to me, what with the existance of journalists like Patricia who seek out the sexist ulterior motives in just about everything.
Next time anyone does a presentation, make sure you have at least one black Mexican Asian Indian (etc etc on races) female presenter to make sure no one is left out. Because at the presentation, its not what you are presenting its the person that is presenting that really matters
oh em gee… so what? making it so big of a deal…
I still believe that the lack of female presenters has less to do with sexism and more to do with the choosing the most knowledgeable people to represent the companies and products/games.
Personally I would like to see Patrica write an article showing us which female employees could have replaced the male presenters. This would show any female employees with similar experience and credentials compared to their male counterparts, which in turn would either give evidence to the sexist argument or show that the males were chosen for their expertise. Of course, this is all assuming such an article was well researched and didn’t mainly comprise of other peoples tweets or reek of sensationalism.
Exactly what I said… This shouldn’t be too hard should it?
It shouldn’t be too hard for someone who’s interested in writing a well researched and thought provoking article and not some sensationalistic drivel. But given Patrica’s track record of focusing more on the latter than the former… >_>
Bang-on, mate.
Perhaps their male execs were just better at public speaking. Shit, maybe the female execs were too nervous to do the presentation. There’s any number of explanations as to why there weren’t any.
It looks to me like the exec from MediaMolecule has a chip on her shoulder because Sony didn’t want anything from media molecule in the event.
I wonder if their is any fallout for her for publicly dissing her publisher for not picking her on the team…
There are several times more female teachers than there are male teachers in Australia. Does that mean men are being discriminated against? Does that mean the higher-ups have a hidden anti-men agenda?
Or, does it mean that for whatever reason, teaching doesn’t appeal to men as much as it does women?
I mean– WHERE WERE THE EMUS ON STAGE?!?
Working for the Education Department, I can honestly tell you, female teachers are incredibly sexist and don’t even realise it.
Also, Patricia, you have quite obviously used a vague LinkedIn search to enhance the worth of your article. Searching “Sony computer entertainment”, will bring up ANYONE with that in their profile, including references from a Sony worker. That search query has an ex-IGN editor in the first few queries.
You probably should have linked to this, a more accurate depiction of female Sony execs:
http://us.playstation.com/corporate/about/management/
Why would they include the HR manager in a Playstation 4 presentation?
This article is akin to social coercion. Militant trouble making at its finest.
Next time on bad journalism, Presentation gets called out for having a female spokes woman as sexist and using women as sex objects to sell product.
yeah she better have a hot model
better call jessica nigri
or some other blonde big titted nerd out!
imagine having some skank unveil the PS4
Looking at this issue with a fresh set of eyes – yes I agree there is an issue about females not being represented in the video game industry.
But l looking back at how it got that way, when I was growing up video games were seen and interpreted as a young boys activity. Now those young boys have grown up, it’s been engrained into them that it’s a ‘young boys activity’ (and still is) so is it any wonder boys/grown up boys feel resistance that females are on the scene now?
Of all the forums I’ve been an active member of, I’ve never come across a single male gamer who has been pissed off about women getting into gaming. If anything, the male gamers I have interacted with have welcomed me as a gamer rather than shunned me as a woman. Having said that though, I rarely play against strangers online, so perhaps that’s where all this “resistance” is coming from. 😛
Orrrrr,
When video gaming was in its infancy (not long ago) it was almost exclusively men in the field. A by product of the time really. These men that are still in the field are in the positions they are from 20-30 and sometimes more years of experience and have gotten to where they are by working their way there. Now there are far more women in the field it will eventually mean they will get higher up into these positions.
Hell, you already have Amy Hennig, whose absence is quite easily explained by the fact that Naughty Dog was absent as well (sadly).
What about Jade Raymond! I hear you cry. Why didn’t Ubisoft use her! They’re sexist! Or the fact that Ubisoft Montreal is developing Watch Dogs not Ubisoft Toronto, of which she is the managing director.
There’s women there. Just not in the positions with what was presented. As time goes by more women who are working will get these positions and you’ll see more.
would love to hear what these female sony execs have to say.
They’ll say the same stuff the male execs do. Who cares about the mouthpiece, its about the message- which is ‘buy this console’. I’m sick of the PC police intruding on one of the last bastions of PC free entertainment- gaming.
I honestly don’t care who presents what. They could have had Germain Greer presenting the PS4 for all I care, but just because she or any other woman wasn’t on stage it doesn’t warrant the feminist inquisition.
Fucking Hell……Please stop. For the love of sanity, please stop. Articles like this don’t do anything positive or productive for the gaming industry. Please stop.
Also I am surprised that you haven’t done a post on why there is only approx 10 females in the Bungie Staff Photo (http://www.kotaku.com.au/2013/02/now-the-entire-staff-of-bungie-doesnt-know-what-to-do-with-their-hands/) and why there is only 2 (that I could count) Black staff members as well. Seeing as you seem to love to over-sensationalize everything……..
There’s nothing we can do. The more people call her out for being a hack who needlessly creates stories out of non-stories, the more she’ll be convinced that there’s a secret cabal of misogynistic online males trying to put its foot on her throat. That’ll just turn her persecution complex up to 11, “I’LL NEVER BE SILENCED!” and we get even more ratty posts like this.
CILANTRO HOW COULD YOU!? Now you’ve given her ideas for more articles!
No not another one. Is it really ‘women presenters’ and not ‘female presenters’? Have I been wrong about this my whole life?
You’re correct, “women presenters” is bad grammar.
Patricia, please for the love of god LET IT GO. I cant believe there are people out there stupid enough to cry sexism when a press conference is held without a female presenter. It’s laughable. It’s such an idiotic concept I’m amazed some women actually think about this sort of stuff… clearly nothing better to do with their time.
feminists???
man have they got too much free time
You may as well say that the whole Sony presentation was the illuminati because of the ‘triangle’ button
FFS theres no need to bring up these agendas at a CONSOLE unveiling
Hey party, a friend’s mum gas had 4 male children but no females. Do you want her details for a new article
Stephen Totilo is in the comments section of this article on the US site defending Patricia, I’m not entirely sure if it is wholly relevant but I’ll post his initial comment:
‘Go ahead and call me a white knight, but those of you who enjoy attacking Patricia–who can’t be bothered to read her articles or tolerate her opinion or respond to what she writes about in a civil, intelligent manner–are not part of any community I want on this site. To those wishing she would leave, she’s not leaving. But I hope you leave. I won’t miss you.
But to those who want to agree or disagree with her articles in nuanced, smart, clever, funny, interesting way… keep it up. I don’t look for uniformity in the voices of Kotaku’s writers, and I’m pleased to see a diversity of opinion among the readership.’
Wow. Stephen Totilo is a fucking tool.
There is literally nothing stopping a woman with enough skills and determination to get the experience and education necessary to work their way into these positions. If they wanted to be there, then they would work their way to get there – just like a man has to.
You can argue about sexism and “boys clubs” all you want, and sexist jerks do exist and should be called on it – but skill and knowledge would trump anything in any organisation worth working at.
So what if the presenters were all male? If they intentionally chose males over more qualified females to present in a deliberate act of sexism then there would be some cause for complaint, but I’m betting it was a case of “Hey you have the most knowledge of this game, get up there and talk about it”. Just look at the Bungie guys, it’s pretty obvious they were chosen for their knowledge on the product and not for their charisma and presentation skills.
THIS JUST IN: EVERYTHING IS SEXIST BECAUSE A HACK WRITER WHO HAS NOTHING BETTER TO DO SAYS SO
MORE AT 6
I couldn’t get over the girl in the image looking at, and touching the wrong side of the futuristic touch screen…….
I click these articles to read the comments.
me too 🙂
gah. a swarm of white dudes complaining about how hard done by they are by this article. dont read it if you dont like it.
What does race have to do with this, exactly?
it’s called privilege.
Wow.
http://i.imgur.com/ZOJMg0p.jpg
From Reddit.
10 years ago, only men played games,
women called them geeks and ridiculed and outcast them with others,
geeks would not get girls,
and girls stayed away from geeks,…
Its these people that were outcast nerds that are running things today.
Sorry but girls never had an interest in computers before world of warcraft and facebook and mobiles…. just because it takes your fancy later on, well all I can say is SHEEP
Plus Men lead the way 99% of the time, If a girl wants to lead the way then she can but when she steps in it, she better face it like a man and not go crying!!!
Women take note: go out there create something, make a culture out of it until it comes into fashion THEN claim it as your own….
OW i forgot you try and do this with clothes and makeup and wont let guys into those industry’s…. only gays….
so why are you hell bent on taking over anything men do and corrupting it with your femininity and ruining the thing that we set out so hard to make!
get a lyfe gamer girls stop trying to take ours, with this bull properganda
Totally agree. Women only want to be involved in things that are mainstream and “cool”, upon which they will attempt to force it to pander to their emotional demands. Case in point, people like Patricia Hernandez and Anita Sarkeesian.
Here’s an idea women: How about you go develop your own fun, enjoyable subculture without constantly trying to take over the things that men are interested in? Oh that’s right I forgot, women can’t develop anything original or groundbreaking, they just leech off the achievements of men.
You forgot the Sarcasm tags. Sadly, some people will think you’re being serious.
Sarcasm or not, he makes a point. Can we actually think of anything that teams of women have created, that both men and women enjoy using? Everything that women use and consume has been developed by organizations that are mostly male. Whenever something becomes mainstream women always expect it to cater to them, and start crying sexism when not many women are involved with it. It’s like they expect women to magically materialize in industries that women just aren’t interested in pursuing.
That is possibly the dumbest comment on the entire internet. Seriously, did you stay up all night working out how to come across like a total misogynist dickhead in 150 words or less? I mean, I don’t like the article, I don’t particularly care for Patricia’s journalistic style or subject matter selection in general, but your one single comment was infinitely more boneheaded than anything Patricia would ever write.
Thats it! Im done here!
toodles!
there may have been women qualified to go on stage, that may be true, but think about what you’re asking them to do, you want them to go out and get women for their presentation, not because those women are the best people for the presentation, but because they are women, that is the complete opposite of fair treatment.
I don’t care what gender you are, whether you get to represent a company on stage should be decided by your actions and whatnot, the very fact that people insist on specifying gender is bullshit, just because the people who were chosen to go on stage where male doesn’t mean they were chosen because they were male, that would be retard logic.
this just in
men model female underwear!
Much like opening a door for a woman and copping a mouthful about sexism over something that is common courtesy. This just seems like unnecessary feminism flag waving for the sake of attention. I, like I’m sure many people don’t give a shit who says what on the stage, as long as its something I care about.
I for one only regret that Amy Henning didn’t come on stage to announce Uncharted 4, beyond that, wasn’t even paying attention to a demographics breakdown of the event.
Why is this a problem? I’ve seen a few comments here state that the people they chose probably knew more about the product, the community that supports them and what it’s future is. And that’s very very likely. Sure there are female execs or whatever at the company but chances are there are more males than females involved in this project in particular.
So after reading this article, I could tell the author was trying to scream sexism but at the same time try to make it sound like she was being totally cool with it at the same time.
Also lol’d at that LinkedIn search. 😛
This is beyond ridiculous and this is coming from a woman.
lol.
look at all males saying a lack of females isn’t an issue!
No reasonable commenter here is arguing over the lack of women in the industry, they’re arguing against slamming a press event for not picking female spokes persons claiming it’s sexist, when no reasonable argument as to why was presented.
If you want to get snark, take a side step and look at the state of TV and it’s negative portrails of men, especially in advertisements. We’re apparently all too stupid to cook or clean, or even install a baby car seat.
Or even take a look at the rampant sexism female teachers preach against men.
Real feminism is dead.
I agree. They are so scared of a little discussion that they have to scream that it is an invalid point.
I work in science and there is the same problem. It was worse 10 – 15 years ago, but it is only in recent years it is getting better. However the ratios are still more like 5 males to 1 female in lead positions. But at lower levels their are even numbers. Having children takes many out of the work force for a few years and when they return they can’t compete with the unbroken time that males put in. There are initiatives to help like early career support for women but because of the publication and grant system it is very hard. That is not including the actual sexism that does exist by SOME males in the industry.
I don’t know why everyone can’t calm down and say: “Wow wouldn’t it be great if there were a few females up there next time. Hopefully for the PS5 reveal.”
Because that is the real point of the article.
Virtually all feminist/social justice sites forbid comments that disagree with, or question, anything the authors say. Who’s really the one afraid of a little discussion? You’re also defining “afraid of a little discussion” as “asserting that someone is wrong.” In other words, your idea of a discussion is a circle jerk.
My idea of a discussion battlecattle, is where people share Ideas opinions and comments. A discussion is not people telling the author to take their crappy article to a feminist website and leave us alone. That is why I said they are afraid of discussion. As for feminist websites I don’t tend to read them so I wouldn’t know about their comment policies, but “Virtually all” seems like quite a lot. You must be an avid reader.
I don’t quite understand that last point of yours. perhaps it is because throwing in the insult mixed up the meaning somewhat. I would say that a discussion is usually a circle. One side gives some point of view and then the other responds, and so forth. Much like a wheel, as the circle turns sometimes progress is made and sometimes it goes backwards and things get worse.
Lets see where this circle goes.
You might have a point if the only thing anyone had said was that the author should leave, but that’s just not the case. Even if it was, I would respond that since feminist sites don’t publish articles (or even comments) by their opponents, it’s only fair that gaming sites don’t publish articles by feminists. Why should it be a one way street?
There is plenty of discussion here. It just doesn’t happen to agree with the author’s views.
Why would what extreme feminist sites do have any relation to what Kotaku do? They are not even opposites. It is only fair? Who is keeping score?
The discussion that is being had, in my opinion, is not very balanced or considered and in some cases inaccurate (on both sides as has been pointed out by others, and as you suggest about other feminist websites). That does not mean this is not the place to talk about it, or that we can’t do a better job than other websites. Most of the responses are saying there is no issue and that we should stop talking about it. If it wasn’t an issue why does Sony have a scholarship to help get women into the industry:
http://penny-arcade.com/report/the-cut-article/women-in-gaming-themed-scholarship-from-sony-online-entertainment-now-takin
It is a real issue, But it is a first world problem, like all things video game related. I for one would like to see more diversity in the industry to see with what kinds of ideas they will come up with.
I am not talking about any “extremist” sites, and I don’t understand how you can think it’s acceptable for gaming sites to publish feminist articles when feminist sites won’t publish anything from their opponents (and, I might add, never argue in good faith).
“Most of the responses are saying there is no issue and that we should stop talking about it. ”
Well that’s discussion too. Many people think this is a non-issue. What are you expecting them to say instead?
“If it wasn’t an issue why does Sony have a scholarship to help get women into the industry?”
I think a better question is why do women need all these scholarships and other programs to help them get into video games? It’s because they have little interest in video games, and need to pushed into them to satisfy arbitrary goals of “equality.” It’s the same thing with the US military: women aren’t suited for combat, mostly aren’t even interested in it, but by God they have to be there anyway so there can be “equality.”
“I for one would like to see more diversity in the industry to see with what kinds of ideas they will come up with.”
What is stopping them from making independent games?
Well at least you have finally articulated the source of your understanding. It is because you already know all the facts and motivations of half the planet. – “It’s because they have little interest in video games,”
So basically, you are saying you think gaming is a man’s hobby. Well if that was the case I would agree with some of what you said here, but it’s not. Their are plenty of female gamers, plenty on this site even, so why would their be no females interested in game design? Oh wait there are: From a salary survey of Indie game developers, 17% of team members are women. But this is the best representation in the whole industry.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:d1jUQNiz9QQJ:www.techjournal.org/2011/04/swift-earnings-growth-seen-for-indie-game-developers/+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au&client=firefox-a
“So basically, you are saying you think gaming is a man’s hobby.”
Inevitably, since women don’t have much interest in it.
“Why would their be no females interested in game design?”
Did somebody say that there are literally no women interested in game design?
That’s a cop-out. NO-ONE is saying “Boys only.” This is maybe the dozenth article from this writer saying exactly the same thing with the same, tired nucleus of engineered controversy. Look at the current sex ratio of gamers in their 30s and 40s, the ones who probably work in the industry, they’re overwhelmingly male because until the last decade or so, it was very much a boy’s hobby (for better or worse). The distribution of female speakers at these events are about what I’d expect.
What Patricia Hernandez is suggesting is a gender-based Affirmative Action, by demanding an artificial 50% female quota, despite significantly more male applicants and lower level employees. What will result is a top-heavy female staff with promotions based on seniority than merit.
And before you start thinking that I’m a sexist pig, I’m the furthest thing from a misogynist. I’m not afraid to against my own self-interest to help the truly disenfranchised. But this narrative being pushed by Patricia Hernandez is a cop-out. In 10 years, the gap will shrink, simply due to more girls who caught the gaming bug, the way it should be, organic without any ‘balancing of the card’ with political promotions. The current demographics aren’t simply due to institutional sexism, despite what Patricia Hernandez likes to think.
> I don’t know why everyone can’t calm down and say: “Wow wouldn’t it be great if there were a few females up there next time. Hopefully for the PS5 reveal.”
That’s bullshit. Putting females up there just because they’re female is sexism in itself. You want the people up there to be the best suited people, which might happen to not have any females in itself.
The point of these articles, as I understand it, is looking at increasing female presence in the industry so that, in the future, it is more likely that there are some women in these positions, who do deserve to be up there. Not saying “Hey sony you should insert 50% Females into all departments right now.” But that is how everyone is reacting.
Why should a woman who chooses to have children and leave for a time be granted the same career advancement as a woman who stayed at the job? And sure, it WOULD be great if there were some women on the stage. But only if it was a natural choice and not due to outside pressure or because of a mandated quota.
The problem is that the qualifications for these positions are rated in a very specific way. So you could be a brilliant scientist but if you were away for just the wrong amount of time, and missed too many grant funding rounds, you can’t get back into the game competitively. I’m not saying that it is totally unfair, yes those that choose to stay can do well, but it is a further challenge for women. A man can have kids and take very little time off work if he chooses. Add that too the sexism that still lingers in parts of the industry (it is slowly decreasing over time), means it is just a bit tougher.
I think the games industry would be quite similar. You get out for a year or two to have kids and all of a sudden you missed the chance to move up and you are stuck where you were. Is that sexism or biological reality. I think a little of both but it tends to be the way capitalist systems are designed. That is why we have things like maternity leave to try and balance things out.
But in an industry where there are very low numbers of women, particularly a creative one, means that you are missing out on a bunch of perspectives that would be very different and would make for better products. Studies have shown that boards with a more diverse makeup, races and sex’s generally perform better than those with a monoculture.
“Stocks Perform Better if Women Are on Company Boards” http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-31/women-as-directors-beat-men-only-boards-in-company-stock-return.html
“But in an industry where there are very low numbers of women, particularly a creative one, means that you are missing out on a bunch of perspectives that would be very different and would make for better products.”
This is based on the racist and misandrist premise that white men are all the same, and that women and non-whites possess some sort of mystical wisdom. It’s nonsense.
It is not nonsense and its not mystical. It is biology and sociology. All people different but if only white males make games then you will only get their perspectives (of which there are many). But they won’t cover as many possibilities. It is why Japanese games often have a different feel to American games. Different things in their cultures have different influences which are expressed in their games. Just as games designed with females will have different ideas as well. They way females approach problems and issues is different to males. It is neuroscience, their brains are literally wired differently. So don’t just write it off as mystical and If you had looked at that article I posted you would see some actual evidence of the difference diversity can make.
“It is not nonsense and its not mystical. It is biology and sociology. All people different but if only white males make games then you will only get their perspectives (of which there are many). But they won’t cover as many possibilities.”
Yes, I am noticing a distinct lack of possibilities in the history of video games, cinema, literature, painting and music.
Don’t even try to act like this is about something other than racism and misandry.
“So don’t just write it off as mystical and If you had looked at that article I posted you would see some actual evidence of the difference diversity can make.”
There are many ways of interpreting the study’s results, assuming they are even accurate.
One difference is that there are and have been many female movie directors, writers, painters and musicians. They all contributed to the diversity of those fields in amazing ways, thank you for proving my point. Many early female writers had to publish under male names to get their work published.
Yes you can interpret data in many ways, but I guess it is easier when you already know the truth of everything. Who needs evidence?
Women have had a minimal contribution to those fields compared to men, and they haven’t done much that men couldn’t have also done, or didn’t also do. That’s because they don’t have mystical wisdom radiating from their vaginas.
“Who needs evidence?”
Who needs skepticism in the 21st century?
You obviously have the monopoly of mystical wisdom radiating out your ass.
If this is truly how you think, and your not just trolling, then I am sorry that you are blind to the diversity of this world and how amazing it can be.
“Diversity,” as it is now defined by liberalism, is a complete sham that has nothing to do with any actual diversity.
Classical feminism was all about equal opportunity, equal pay for equal work, all that good jazz. But certain elements of the movement decided it was also about equal outcomes and quotas for female representation. These are the ones that wont stop until every major company if forced to have a % of women on their boards, regardless of merit.
Please Patricia, stop beating the horse. It’s already dead. :.(
This artical is way to big for something that honestly isn’t really that big of a deal. I couldn’t care less even if all the presenters were female. Its just not that big of a deal.
It was interesting that Patricia chose to leave a few details out of her quotes from the STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering & Math) report:
So basically there are not many women choosing to study a STEM course in college / uni, and of those who do, most will choose something other than engineering. And those that do graduate are less likely to work in the field they studied for.
If there is under-representation in the industry, it sounds to me that this is a result of women choosing careers in other industries rather than a bias against women within the industry itself.
It is entirely possible that the presenters were selected with no consideration of gender, no malice or forethought. If a blind man unknowingly chose 4 caucasians does that make him a racist?
This angry, attention seeking lunatic wants people chosen for roles based on their gender. She is sexist (and a poor excuse for a journalist to boot).
The loudest voices for equality are often the most bigoted.
I’ve decided that you, Patricia, are a sexist pig. How dare you marginalise males; how dare you debase us all with your magic brush of prejudice and judgment? Who the hell do you think you are – making out that your are the last bastion of womens rights by writing a series of male-bashing articles? You are a pathetic human being if you rely on sensationalist outcries of mountain-from-molehill non-issues. I admit, your ability to create issues out of nothing, to conjure up prejudice and misogyny out of thin air, is impressive. But unfortunately, the fact that you continue to damn people, companies and entire groups of individuals with these sweeping claims, just makes you a shit human being. I hope you are proud of yourself, because you are only doing harm to women everywhere with your shitty, shitty articles.
Absoulety pathetic. If people are getting genuinely upset about this, that is just showing how pathetically politically correct everything is. Patrica stop making crap articles and just quit this site >:(
As a IT professional that just happens to be female, I would like these articles to go away. So what if there weren’t any ladies presenting? Big deal. I’m getting sick and tired of this nonsense and would prefer to be treated as ‘person’ rather than any silly little label like gender. It’s just making things worse.
There will always be disparity in STEM fields, because such fields require dedicated attention and has heavily logic-based knowledge which is more suited to a male mindset to a female one (stereotypically speaking). There were 3 women in my graduating class out of 200. That ratio could be better but I’m not complaining, because it was the choice of those people to be there.
This is all Patricia seems to write about these days. :\ 0/10
yeah, its clearly wall to wall vagina: http://www.kotaku.com.au/author/patricia-hernandez/
idiot.
Patricia it is that time of the week again, lets discuss our favorite topic!!!! It starts with V and ends in A!! yay!
Patricia is bad correct. But we all still click her articles. We should simply just cease to click anything with her name on it. As hard as our internet creature tendencies will tug at us to come comment hate. We should power through and ignore. When she is receiving minimal clicks maybe something good will happen. Maybe. Although I reckon if she stopped posting on Kotaku because of a lack of clicks, she’d write an article claiming Kotaku and it’s community is sexist.
i nominate you for the first to do this.
all the dudes complaining about how a woman writes *only* articles about “women issues”. except for the majority of articles she writes which aren’t focused on gender. but you know, let’s ignore that so we can focus on our outrage at somehow (for whatever reason) feeling challenged.
You clearly love abusing the voting system on Kotakus comment system, isn’t it great when you can just downvote anyone with a different opinion to you?
(no seriously kotaku au remove this option.)
Clearly, because I must be the only one in conflict with the hive mind right?
i rather like the 11 downvotes on an earlier comment of mine.
Hi my name is ibbers, I don’t always use the bathroom, but when I do I sit down on the toilet.
ha. is that the best you can do?
Look, a three-headed-monkey!
lol. points.