Star Wars Lore Is Changing -- Here's What That Means

Star Wars Lore Is Changing — Here's What That Means

The Star Wars universe as we know it is changing. To a lot of fans, Star Wars is far more than just the movies. The "Expanded Universe" includes novels, comic books and video games that, to many fans, define Star Wars even more than the films that started this phenomenon.

But Disney and LucasFilm are producing new Star Wars movies set after the original trilogy, and they have decided that the task of reconciling the stories in these new films with the incredibly dense Expanded Universe lore is an impossible one. And so on Friday they announced that Episodes 7, 8 and 9 will likely disregard at least those parts of the Expanded Universe that take place after Return of the Jedi.

More cynical geek commentators might say this is no big loss. And while there are some things being discarded I'm happy to be able to forget now, there are other aspects of the EU I will mourn.

Star Wars Lore Is Changing — Here's What That Means

Good: Context and universe-building

I spent my school years reading Star Wars novels and comics and playing Star Wars games. It's because I grew up with all that history that I've had a ridiculous amount of context for every trip I take into the Star Wars galaxy.

Though I would assume many of the Expanded Universe characters will make appearances in the new films, they won't have the same histories that have been hammered into my skull over the last 20 years. Rebel pilot Wedge Antilles, who appeared in all of the original three films, has been fleshed out in novels and comic books into one of the most beloved characters in all of Star Wars. Likewise Mara Jade, who is an EU creation and eventual wife to Luke Skywalker, has been the prototypical Strong Female Character among so many others in the EU (more on that later). And Thrawn — an alien tactical genius so much better at warfare than everyone else that even the openly racist Empire couldn't keep him from rising through its ranks — is almost a symbol for the EU despite not making many appearances.

Maybe those folks and others who have kept us coming back to the Expanded Universe will survive into the new Star Wars canon, but they won't be the characters we've gotten to know so intimately.

When the Expanded Universe became a stated licensing initiative by LucasFilm over two decades ago, they wanted at least the book and comic content to be placed on a coherent timeline with everything counting and referencing everything else. In terms of world-building, it's been a huge success. Even now as a recovering Star Wars fan I almost reflexively talk about it all the time because I know in-universe Star Wars history about as well as the history of our world. That should give you an idea of the impressive amount of lore built into Star Wars.

Star Wars Lore Is Changing — Here's What That Means

Bad: Helter-skelter lore

On the flip side of that, the first eight years of the Expanded Universe effort, from 1991 to early 1999, were pure chaos. And while most of the stories told did fit together decently on a timeline, there are some books that really just didn't at all and have long been ignored, like the Jedi Prince series. And as much as I enjoy the Jedi Knight games, the folks who made them certainly didn't try too hard to make them fit into the canon.

Kyle Katarn, for example, is the lead character in three of the four Jedi Knight games. While he does show up in some novels, his adventures in those games never feel like they exist in the same timeline as the rest of the lore, and are never (as far as I can recall) referenced in other works, just as those games never reference what else is going on in the galaxy at the time. The expansion pack to Jedi Knight, Mysteries of the Sith, even stars Mara Jade, and it exists in that same almost context-free bubble.

Star Wars novels were always more internally consistent in terms of continuity, but in that first decade, authors very often were placing stories in gaps in the timeline rather than each new story taking place after the last. Which could make it feel strange to read some of the early-written novels that tied into but did not reference key events from books that were written later but took place before.

But even many of the stories that fit on a timeline weren't necessarily coherent or sensical in context with each other. In The Crystal Star, for instance the bad guy kidnaps Han and Leia's kids because he wants to feed them to an extradimensional jelly monster called Waru. In the Jedi Academy Trilogy, Jedi Kyp Durron fell to the dark side and committed genocide but he wasn't punished for it because they turned him back to the good side. And the less said about the Black Fleet Crisis, the better. Also indicative of this lack of baseline standards were Old Republic-era comics in which powerful Sith lords cause stars to go nova with their minds, making you wonder why the Emperor needed Death Stars, really.

Star Wars Lore Is Changing — Here's What That Means

Good: Wraith Squadron's mentally ill misfits

Being a space fantasy, Star Wars has always been preoccupied with the Jedi and the Force, but a series of books nominally based on the X-Wing games got away from that entirely by focusing on a fighter pilot group called Rogue Squadron and its military operations in the New Republic — the successor government to the Rebel Alliance from the films. The nine books of the X-Wing series that were published in the '90s (a 10th was released in 2012, and I haven't read that one) are just about the most readable novels in all the Expanded Universe, and three by Aaron Allston about a starfighter group called Wraith Squadron is probably the peak of the EU in terms of human interest.

This squadron, created by Rebel hero Wedge Antilles (you'll remember him as the pilot Luke ordered out of the Death Star trench in Star Wars and again flying alongside Lando in Return of the Jedi), is made up of misfits whose military careers are basically over but who have skills that make them suited to working both as pilots and commandos, and who will plan and execute ops with non-traditional methods.

The hook is that most of Wraith Squadron's misfits are either mentally ill or have serious emotional hangups. We have, for example:

  • Face Loran, who acted in Imperial propaganda films as a child and now feels immense guilt over it
  • Ton Phanan, who is allergic to bacta (that magic healing fluid Luke was submerged in after his ordeal on Hoth at the start of The Empire Strikes Back) and so he's been given lots of mechanical parts after traumatic injuries and has become depressed and suicidal about it
  • Myn Donos, who is suffering from PTSD after his previous squadron was wiped out in an ambush
  • Falynn Sandskimmer, who has a serious inferiority complex that causes her to hate herself because she's not the best pilot in history
  • Runt, a member of a species that naturally develops multiple personalities but who has no control over them and thus is basically a crazy person

There are more, but you get the picture.

Wraith Squadron is an extraordinary success for a 12-person group specifically because, as we so often see with artists, those seemingly huge character flaws make them think in unique and unpredictable ways. Part of that, of course, is they take some unnecessary risks, but the point here is that this weird group of people gels with each other in a way they couldn't with normal squadrons, and because of that they're able to pull off ops nobody else would think to try.

Star Wars Lore Is Changing — Here's What That Means

Bad: Dark Empire comic stains the timeline

The first thing Dark Horse Comics did with Star Wars after acquiring the licence was publish a series called Dark Empire in 1991, a few months after the acclaimed novel Heir to the Empire began this Expanded Universe initiative in earnest. While Heir to the Empire felt pretty grounded, relatively speaking, Dark Empire was about Emperor Palpatine being resurrected in clone bodies six years after Return of the Jedi. Yes, I'm serious.

This "Emperor Reborn" announced his existence to the galaxy by opening a hyperspace wormhole with the Force on Coruscant and sucking Luke Skywalker into it, taking him to the Emperor's base on the planet Byss. And Luke turns to the dark side to keep from being murdered on the spot, which is kind of OK at first except nothing even remotely thought-provoking happens because of it.

The kicker is that during the three Dark Empire series, Leia gets pregnant and has a baby boy, and she and Han decide to name this kid Anakin. Kind of a horrible thing to do — imagine if Hitler's adult kids had been the ones to take him down and then half a decade later one of them had a kid named Adolf — but it gets worse. The Emperor is using up clone bodies like candy because something something dark side, and so he needs a new body that's more sustainable. And Palpatine, in all his wisdom, decides the only option is baby Anakin. Technically, this was an adviser's idea, probably as a double cross, but, really, the final battle in Dark Empire was about the main antagonist of the Star Wars movies trying to possess a baby.

There are lots of bad Star Wars books and comics, but few of them contain a story that is so significant and sweeping as Dark Empire's. It left such a mark in-universe that it had to be referenced often in other works, and we could never forget.

There are more reasons why Dark Empire sucks, but we'll come back to that.

Star Wars Lore Is Changing — Here's What That Means

Good: Progressive gender politics

This doesn't come across in the movies at all, but the Star Wars Expanded Universe has a long tradition of opposing discrimination in any form. The Empire, aside from being generally evil and fascist, is institutionally racist and misogynistic; they rarely allow non-humans or women in the military, and those who do make it in rarely get the chance to have glorious careers. The Rebellion and then the New Republic, on the other hand, don't care about that stuff.

Throughout these stories we see our heroes fully embrace inclusiveness. There are so many awesome, kickass ladies in these stories — the fighter squadrons in the X-Wing series are full of women and female aliens, for example — and the good guys never act like that's a thing. People are people and whether they're men or women or aliens doesn't come into the conversation, unless it's somebody like Borsk Fey'lia, regularly painted as the New Republic's main Typical Arsehole Politician, bringing it up.

Though, yes, the lack of gay people — or even homosexuality as a concept — in nearly all these stories is lame, and there's no good reason for it. But even so, these stories do strongly encourage inclusiveness, and I can't help but think that reading so many Star Wars books in my developing years helped make me be less of a jerk than probably I would be otherwise.

Star Wars Lore Is Changing — Here's What That Means

Bad: Superweapons

Timothy Zahn is best known in Star Wars circles for writing two sets of books, the Thrawn Trilogy and the Hand of Thrawn duology, the first taking place five years after Jedi and the second happening ten years later. In the Expanded Universe chronology, the time in between those stories is mostly just a black hole of bullshit. It's also the main reason the EU is thought of as a collection of terribleness, since all this stuff was written in the '90s when the Expanded Universe was just becoming a thing in earnest.

A big reason why this period sucks is because there are so many superweapons found there, a trend that began in Dark Empire. Let's count them off.

  • World Devastators, which would break up a planet and consume its resources. It's a possibly benign purpose, but their name is ominous and the Emperor used them on New Republic planets.
  • the Galaxy Gun, which destroyed planets
  • the Eclipse dreadnaught, which destroyed planets
  • a second Eclipse dreadnaught, built after the first one was blown up
  • the Darksaber, which was just a Death Star superlaser without all the extra stuff
  • an old Death Star prototype
  • the Sun Crusher, which causes stars to go supernova and was invincible
  • the Eye of Palpatine, a "battlemoon" with enough conventional weaponry to destroy a planet's crust
  • Centerpoint Station, which was a machine that could do anything, pretty much.

There's also a book about a guy who used a factory to implant bombs in every droid and computer it produced and then eventually blew them all up at once. Not a superweapon, really, but implausible and over-the-top in the same way.

None of these weapons were the result of an arms race, either, as is the case in Bioware's MMO Star Wars: The Old Republic where both sides are trying to outdo each other. Most of these superweapons are Imperial things created during the movie era, and apparently totally unnecessary since they weren't used until much later. The non-Imperial weapons are Centerpoint, made by ancient beings called the Celestials to assemble the Corellian star system, and the Darksaber, which an ambitious Hutt funded in a power grab.

Star Wars Lore Is Changing — Here's What That Means

Good: The long-awaited introduction of moral shades of grey to Star Wars

In the late '90s, some folks at LucasFilm realised they were putting out lots of really stupid books that had little regard for each other and decided to curate some longer-running story arcs that were more coherent than the one-offs and random trilogies that had been the norm. The first of these was the New Jedi Order, begun in 1999 and eventually spanning 19 novels over the following five years.

This series is where Chewbacca was infamously crushed by a falling moon, and it involved an invasion of the galaxy by some extragalactic aliens with a pain fetish. Which was fun. But for a couple years these books got bogged down in the same old Jedi philosophizing that had always been annoying in previous books and the prequel movies, with the main protagonists embracing a boring black-and-white view of the Force.

But this time it was a setup. In the 13th book and first-ever Star Wars novel that didn't include a character from one of the movies, Traitor gave a different perspective: there are shades of grey in the morality of the Force. A person's intentions do matter; using Force lightning does not make you a bad person by default, and enjoying a fight doesn't mean you're turning into a Sith. The old Jedi teachings would say this is heretical, but really it was refreshing that discussions about the Force were for the first time not horribly stodgy and dull. the 2004 RPG Knights of the Old Republic 2 is regarded well today despite being unfinished for that same reason. Alas, it was not to last.

Star Wars Lore Is Changing — Here's What That Means

Bad: Legacy of the Force novels and retcons

Some very vocal fans, however, were pissed about legit moral nuance being introduced to the series. Three years later another long series, the 9-book Legacy of the Force, revealed that whole philosophy from Traitor was just a trick by two old Sith named Lumiya and Vergere to turn Han and Leia's son Jacen to the dark side. The plan succeeds, and Jacen becomes a Sith Lord who kills Mara Jade and rules the galaxy for a minute. The arc itself is not really even a bad one, being about a man trying to avoid a galactic war by doing some unpalatable things only to end up being the villain. But it's ruined by having it come as the result of Jacen not thinking of the world in black and white because he was tricked by a secret Sith. This series is basically LucasFilm asserting that in Star Wars there is no such thing as moral nuance. Or that not only Sith deal in absolutes?

This sort of thing is indicative of why LucasFilm is now saying that only new stories and the past movies are perma-canon. Even after LucasFilm took firm control over the direction of the Expanded Universe in the late '90s, they kept the old stuff as canon and so retcon after retcon continued. With this statement, they give themselves the right to disregard things from the past instead of adapting them, and with new movies on the way the post-Jedi continuity was far too dense to navigate.

It's still painful, of course; for me, sure, but Leland Chee at LucasFilm has been in charge of franchise continuity for a decade and it probably sucks to have so much of his efforts be wiped from the record in this post-Jedi reboot. But at the end of the day there's far more money in having movies with context that can be easily communicated to normies than in satisfying Expanded Universe die-hards.

Can't really blame them, then, for taming the Wild West of this massive universe by way of carpet bombing it.

Phil Owen is a freelance journalist and games critic. Follow him on Twitter at @philrowen and send hate mail to [email protected]


    The NJO series arc really brought be back into the EU in a big way. I was given the first novel as a Christmas present, read it basically in a day and then each subsequent book was bought pretty much as soon as it came out. I was really hoping that the new movies might focus on this timeframe, it's an incredibly dark part of the EU and a cut down version could be done quite well, especially since the New Republic basically gets beaten up on for the first 2/3 of the novels.

    I'm pretty invested in the current timeline, I'd hate to see it discounted completely with the new films.

      Thats exactly what's happening. After all, Chewbaccas confirmed for episode 7 :D

    The books are still there, noones deleting them. But, though I've read most of them, they've either expanded the universe greatly (Timothy Zahn) or seen characters ruined with needless backstory and exposition by various writers who don't quite get the character (Boba Fett).

    Personally, I'm fine with this. And why? Because it's only a subculture that adamantly reads the Star Wars novels. Yes, a lot of people do but it's still a niche crowd. The bulk of the crowd seeing Episode 7 next year aren't going to give a shit what happened between Episodes 6 and 7? They don't want to have to read 50 - 60 books to catch up on everything? Why should they? Even Lucas stated a fair while back he never considered the novels canon, he said the books were their own universe and the movies were his and never would the two meet.

    Of course you can bet your ass after part 7 we're going to see a whole lot more Star Wars 'Expanded Universe mk2' start coming out though...

      Agree. I have only ever watched the movies. I love star wars as much as anyone and i am a reader but I never considered the books as integral to the 'history' and never felt the urge to read them. As far as I'm concerned the story backstory for the films should only include things that have been in the films scripts specifically. Anything else to me is just marketing, which is fair enough, but the film makers should not be held to it.

      Nothing you can say makes the death of Kyle Katarn ok lol.

      I don't mind so much the exclusion of the EU, only that it will be pillaged to build the continuation of the series. Some might argue that it will work, but we have all been there when a director says, "We think this is something fans and new comers will enjoy!!" Which is code for, "We threw in a few references for fans but molested the living snot out of the source material"

      I have my own SW canon. The original 3 films (without all the CGI wank added to them) and a handful of the books, mostly Zahn's but with a few others.

      I'm happy with that. Some of the books were truly rubbish. Most of the comics were crap. 50% of the films were god-awful. Me, I've got a little universe that doesn't have midichlorians, has more planets than just Hoth & Tattooine and doesn't involve Kevin J. Anderson in any way, shape or form.

      I have all 5 Thrawn books and love them cause they feel and read like the movies/canon.

      should I just get NJO and Wraith Squadron or os there another series that holds up the the canon and quality as The Thrawn Trilogy?

      **note, I have Shadows of the Empire (the book and game) and The 5 story bounty hunter book.

        Honestly I think Heir to the empire is the best of everything thats been written. Zahn is a fantastic writer.

    I have really enjoyed some of the EU, I would have preferred if they just cut out what is non canon. I did my reading based on peoples reviews of what was good and relevant and ignored the rubbish which is what I wish they did with the timeline. I guess they may still do that, who knows we may still see EU characters identical to their book counter parts.

    I remember reading that the Clone Wars cartoon (the recent, CGI one) was also being considered by Disney to be canon going forward. Has that been confirmed or are they still deciding? Personally that series was just as guilty of EU crimes as anything else but it had some really cool parts as well.

    Just like all of Star Wars then I guess.

      I think it is classed as cannon. As is the incoming Rebels cartoon.

        It was made specifically by Lucas for the timeline, so yeah it is. But even Lucas himself fudged continuiity now and then...

      Canon is all the films, Clone Wars show, and the upcoming Rebels and live-action TV show if that ever happens.

      Plus, just because they're pushing the EU aside doesn't mean they can't pick and choose good parts from it. Things like details on planets, species and so on which weren't featured can still be pulled back into canon. Clone Wars has done that a fair bit actually, with events happening on places like Mon Calamari, Dathomir, Nal Hutta, Onderon and so on. All of them pretty much are exactly as described in the books. They incorporate a lot of other stuff in the cartoon which was previously EU as well - organizations like Black Sun turn up, the bounty hunters from Empire Strikes Back are all fleshed out in line with the books, even tech like the Z-95 Headhunter turns up in Clone Wars. Additionally the details about the upcoming Rebels stuff suggests they're also pulling in major parts of the EU as well.

      I suspect what we're actually going to get is them discarding all the EU plot points, but not the world building details. So don't throw away your Star Wars RPG books because their details are probably still relevant.

    look as long as they explain what happened to tano ahsoka

      The emperor likes them young?

    No mention of Shadows of the Empire? ;)

      I know ay, that was awesome and having read the books it fits perfectly between Empire and Jedi!

    I don't see the big deal. The 70s/80s Marvel comics and newspaper strips were never properly in continuity, the EU novels haven't been canon since the prequels, the Dark Horse comics of the last 20 years have nearly equally contradicted or complemented the novels.

    No one would argue that the Marvel or DC movies stay beholden to the comic continuity - or that the comics adhere to the movie continuity. This is no different - except that in this case - the movie continuity trumps the novels/comics, being the primary source - rather than vice versa.

      This is the reason I only read comics by Image, To date they have made a concious effort to keep the cannon of all their series that cross over straight.

    I've read almost all (if not all) the post ROTJ novels, and played most of the games and i'd largely agree with everything above. I've always been drawn to 'worlds' in fantasy where each item is just a smaller part of a whole, and generally I really liked the EU, in a lot of cases it was better/had less plot holes than the movies.

    The Thrawn Trilogy and Duology, and the X-Wing series are probably the highlights (actually make that basically anything by Zahn, Allston or Stackpole).

    I liked some of the concepts that came out of the NJO series, namely that heroes could die and a bit more of a moral grey area, but as a series it really lost its direction and meandered for far too long.

    I would disagree with what you said about the Legacy of the Force series, I actually really liked that for similar reasons, it was generally a very dark time it really covered a lot of 'ends justify the means' situations on a slippery slope. That and it basically retold the story of Anakin Skywalker but with less whiny teenager and more emotional drama.

    For me what it comes down to is: they're scrapping the existing canon in favour of the new movies (and overall i'd say for good reason). However, it does mean that if the new movies aren't as good as the existing material they supercede...that's pretty much the last nail in the coffin for Lucasfilm as far as i'm concerned.

    Timothy Zahn, Michael Stackpole and Aaron Allston. Those are the authors you can trust to deliver quality star Wars EU novels. The rest? treat with caution.

    Traitor was a great Star Wars novel. After having read pretty much everything that came before it, it really blew apart the lore and story of the NJO in the best possible way.

    Stover's Mace Windu-centric Clone Wars Novel, Shatterpoint, was great too.

    Thrawn man....what a villain. I would have loved to see him on the big screen.

      That said, wasn't Thrawn in TIE Fighter, an official Lucas game??

        Yep, back when he was just a Vice-Admiral.

    I used to read some of the EU novels and graphic novels. They were enjoyable but I also felt like LFL found a cash cow and were happy with Kevin J Anderson writing via dictation machines.

    Star Wars reached the same level of mass produced crap as all those pointless Star Trek novels you see at the local scifi bookstore.

    I have all 5 Thrawn books and love them cause they feel and read like the movies/canon.

    should I just get NJO and Wraith Squadron or os there another series that holds up the the canon and quality as The Thrawn Trilogy?

      I'd recommend the entire X-Wing series (not just Wraith Squadron, although it's one of my favourites). It takes place after ROTJ, but before Heir to the Empire (actually one of the books ties in to the finale directly).

      I, Jedi is a good bridge between the X-Wing series and the Thrawn Trilogy.

      NJO starts off well, but does lose the plot a bit, and isn't anywhere near as cohesive as the movies/Thrawn series, so see how you go. If you stick it out, there are some amazing moments...i'm still not convinced it's worth wading through the rest of it though. It takes place not long after Vision of the Future.

      Legacy of The Force is a quite a good story arc, but as noted above it is possible to be put off by the 'Sith Plot' thing. Personally I didn't really view it that way and quite enjoyed it. Definitely more cohesive than NJO.

      Overall i'd say only the Thrawn books really read like the movies, although the X-Wing series comes close albeit more focused on the Starfighter squadrons.

      I should also mention to read them in that order. My favourite part of the Star Wars EU is that it all links together and there's little references here and there...the bad part is that it can make it awkward to skip parts, or you end up with spoilers.

      Also when I say X-Wing...that means books 1-9...Book 10 Mercy Kill does not exist...

    Weren't there different levels of what was cannon anyway?And only the movies were in the top tier?

    I read the original Thrawn trilogy and nothing else but I don't recall them mentioning any of that dark empire stuff , I learned with the Dragonlance books that there is a diminishing return on licensed book properties and cut my losses with the EU stuff early.

    Anyway is this really a surprise?The Marvel studio movies and the new Star Trek films basically started with a clean slate to not alienate audiences and Star Wars will be no different.

      Kind of. The common stance that was held by Lucas (although Lucas flip-flopped all over the place on this) was that only the stuff he'd had a direct hand in (aka Episodes 1-6, Force Unleashed 1 and supposedly 2, and both the animated and CG Clone Wars shows) was true canon, and the Extended Universe stuff was kind of an alternate universe take on Star Wars.

      However, Lucas Licensing hired Leland Chee in the early 2000s to put together an internal database of sorts to track Star Wars continuity, and allow all forms of Star Wars media to work towards an ongoing cohesive story that didn't contradict itself. Under this, canon for ALL Star Was media was classified under 6 tiered levels (G-canon, T-canon, C-canon, S-canon, N-canon and D-canon), with the first four forming the overall Star Wars continuity, and the last two being irrelevant (N-canon being Non Canon; works contradicted by higher canon or what if stories, and D-canon being anything coming from Seth Green's comedic 'Star Wars Detours' show that is currently indefinitely postponed, but would've essentially been exactly the same as N-canon except by name).

      G-canon (George Lucas canon) is the latest version of the films (which includes such changes as Greedo shooting first and the Hayden Christensen force-ghost) and any statements from Lucas himself (as well as including unpublished production notes never seen by the public, for some reason), and is the highest level of canon. T-canon (Television canon) consists of both the animated and CG Clone Wars series (as well as the CG Clone Wars movie), and is the second level of canon. C-canon (Continuity canon) refers to nearly everything Star Wars related that doesn't contradict with either G- or T-canon, which ranges from books, comics, TV specials, video games (although only the stories within, and normally the light side and/or default path when there are player choices, but not game mechanics like coloured glowing appearing when force powers are used) and other forms of media. And finally, S-canon (Secondary Canon) consists of stories that took place before the attempt at tracking continuity, as well as stuff that 'just doesn't fit right', but could be used or adapted by other writers as they wished to elevate it to C-canon (or G- or T-canon, if Lucas used it).

      Of course, now that Disney is in control, the tiers of canon don't mean anything anymore, and now all films (Episodes 1-6, The Clone Wars CG movie, and anything to come from Episodes 7-9) and the Clone Wars CG series (and possibly the animated series) are currently official canon, everything else developed from this point forward will also be official canon, but everything else before the acquisition is now non-canon.

      Tl;dr - Lucas believed that only his films, Force Unleashed 1 & 2, and The Clone Wars TV series are canon. Nearly everyone else (including his own companies) states that there is tiered canon that also incorporates the EU. Disney now states that the films, The Clone Wars TV series, and anything Star Wars that gets produced from now on is canon, and everything else isn't.

        Woah, that is a lot of text! Apologies to anyone who decides to read that.

    The books to be honest have some creditbility. The prequels and the changes to the OT are as if not more cringe worthy than some of the other shit.

    Last edited 30/04/14 6:19 pm

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