Payday 2 Developer Apologises For Completely Overkill Pack

Despite recognising the terrible mess it made introducing micro-transactions to Payday 2, developer Overkill remains coy about what exactly it plans to do to about the situation.

Today on Payday 2's community hub on Steam, producer Almir Listo penned the following:

The past few weeks have been some of the most challenging in the history of this community. Players have been angry with us, media have written about us en masse and our volunteer moderators went on strike. For all the distress we've caused the past few weeks, I'd just like to take the time and say that we’re sorry. We've done a lot of things right in the past, but these past few weeks we screwed up. We need to get better at many things, and we will do our best to improve as soon as possible.

The post goes on to mention a "proof-of-concept tournament" the developer will be hosting at various DreamHack LAN events, before finishing with some action points regarding the recent MT debacle — the two major ones being Listo's plans to meet with a few of the volunteer moderators and the fact that Overkill developers will take a more active role on the game's forums.

There's also link to a two-hour video discussion between Listo and three of the community's volunteer moderators which provides some insight into Overkill's thinking with Completely Overkill:

... we all agreed that [it] sounded like a great idea. However, fast forward to now, we'd probably never do it again ... we're never going to do a Completely Overkill pack again, like the way it was introduced. It's bad practice, we have learned, to tell players that you'll get something secret down the line. We can't possibly make those people happy.

As for refunds — they're "not an option [the developer is] discussing", however, it is tossing around other ideas for compensation, such as safes with guaranteed mint condition drops. The full conversation is available below, but it's quite a slog to get through.

PAYDAY 2: An update and an apology [Steam, via Reddit]


Comments

    Are these morons for real? They say they are gonna listen to their community? The community wants the micro-transactions removed, but they refuse to do that BECAUSE... Money. Fuck them.

    P.S. "We’re never going to do a Completely Overkill pack again, like the way it was introduced. It’s bad practice", their regret is the way they implemented the micro-transactions? Not that fact that they exist at all? Idiots.

      Not defending them at all, but if there is truth to the claims that they are having financial troubles, I would imagine they wouldn't regret the game plan that is supposed to be the solution.

      Kinda curious how all this will play out in the long run. (Not looking all that promising)

        Yeah but their financial troubles involve hiring so many staff to push out dlc its ridiculous.

          They're damned if they do and damned if they don't. They were criticised heavily when they released Payday 2 after releasing 1 dlc pack for Payday. So they make the decision to support Payday 2 with DLC for 2-3 years to appease the community, and the community accuses them of 'milking' them for as much money as they can. The Payday community needs to take a collective shit.

        They should of made another game, and not hired a million staff... Bad company management.

    It is easier to ask for forgiveness than permission and many video game making companies capitalise on that. They do something first, without permission or support, then apologies in hopes of coming up on top while still pushing through whatever it is they wanted to.

    This goes on in almost every part of our lives and if you think this is accidental and that people did not know any better and that they have actually learned a hard lesson here and there you are very, very naive and in for a surprise as you continue your life.

    Last edited 21/11/15 6:45 pm

      It's easier for developers and publishers to create a product and for consumers to decide whether they will support that product.

      Neither developers nor publishers should require the permission of consumers or a community before any action is taken.

        A thousand times this.

        The fact micro-transactions are so widely implemented now is because CONSUMERS allowed them to reach this point. It's pretty damn clear cut they actually work, and that a LOT of people buy into them, or it wouldn't be such a common practice as it now is.

        Let's not forget how ridiculously entitled people act these days... Walking around like they're owed the world just because they bought a game.

        Publishers/developers don't owe anyone a damn thing beyond the content they purchased... And even then it is content which in a great many cases is subject to changes, refinement, etc, as per the publisher and developer's visions, and not the consumer's.

        In turn, consumers don't owe developers or publishers a damn thing either... But running around acting like you're some victim in a grand conspiracy because a developer added something you don't like to a game is moronic.

        Last edited 22/11/15 4:38 am

          Nope. You might agree with it but you display woeful education of the situation and seem to be more interested in yelling at people because they act in a way you don't like. Shocking, I know, but what's appropriate and not appropriate in business isn't just stuff you don't like - which is what you're suggesting. You're suggesting that companies can make a game, promote it a certain way, make promises to the consumers and then ALTER the game after you have already paid money for it on the basis of their very public promises.

          The fact that this is clearly wrong (not a massive deal but objectively, factually, undeniably wrong to alter something after it's been paid for) and you're still angry shows how much our emotional perspective and unhealthy resentment of other people for their personal values clouds reality.

          It wouldn't be such an issue if the dev team hadn't made a huge song and dance about how microtransactions will never happen. They also said anyone who thinks they would ever put micro transactions into their game should be ashamed of themselves for even entertaining the idea.

          They dug this grave. Now they can die in it.

        A nice sentiment but it doesn't have all that much to do with the previous post, I think you misunderstood it - took it quite literally. When they reference "permission", they're describing "reason" or "motivation" - a proponent of the decision to employ microtransactions. They don't mean literally ASKING consumers to their face.

        What you are describing sounds literally like making some kind of arbitrary product and selling it without guaging or attempting to research the potential response or benefit to the company - something that is definitely the responsibility of the creator.

    The sad fact is, game companies will ruin their game and destroy the community if it means making money and keeping them afloat. In the past when micro-transactions weren't a thing, games would get made and game companies had to make more games to make more money.
    The fact that micro-transactions have become widely accepted ( and to an extent flourished ), just encourages more game companies struggling to go this way.

      But on the other hand, the time and resources required to make games is increasing, pushing up the need for developers to get practical returns.
      If sales can't cover the budget for a new game then what is the alternative?

      We as consumers demand better games with more content and improved graphics while not exactly wanting to pay more for it.

      However I think many developers need to be more realistic through transparency, so we don't get so many instances like this where a developer promises something that is essentially impossible to follow through on.
      Less impossible goals by kickstarters who pretend like the guaranteed delays of development won't effect then, just to pander to the possibility of instant gratification backing etc.

    So are Bo and Ulf still running the show, or has Starbreeze effectively taken over? The Andersen Bros did some amazing shit while operating as Grin, and and as Overkill, Payday and Payday 2 were additional feathers in their respective caps, but it's seeming more and more that they have little input as to the direction of their creation. I wouldn't be surprised to see them bail (if they haven't already) and start over again while Starbreeze EA's this into the ground. It seems more like the Square Enix situation all over again for them.

    Last edited 22/11/15 11:41 am

    Ha ha they're not sorry at all. Worst dev ever. Lie to players.

    I feel like the reaction from the users wasnt completely thought through, they clearly stated that they needed the support to continue producing content at the rate they wanted, they put a completely optional support system in that gave slight advantages to your team that wasnt 100% necessary to buy. the community turned around and just went fuck you we want the content for free we wont pay. if their was any sort of love for the IP then the player base would understand and the minority would contribute the most to micro transactions. i understand the anger because the devs said they wouldnt do micro transactions, but you need to stand back and weigh up the costs here. its either get over the minor change of the ability to buy slightly upgraded stuff in a team based PvE game and support the game and the devs and have a continuous stream of content that is supported, or have the devs have just the man power to do bug fixes, realise its better to develop a new IP and let payday die.

      The initial player reaction was mostly reasonable. (Threats etc notwithstanding.)

      If anyone hadn't thought anything through, it was Overkill in communicating their change in direction.

      Your contention would be fine if Overkill had set aside some PR time to say to the community, "We can't sustain development with the current model, we've had a good run but if we're going to continue supporting the game we can't just keep selling DLC: we need to start turning to what we said we wouldn't do. Microtransactions. We'd like feedback on the best way to make this happen,"

      Instead, they didn't give any warning, and not only did they introduce a loathed feature that they had said they weren't going to, they introduced it as a 'reward' for an anniversary community event. To call it an unpleasant surprise is an understatement.

      The community didn't turn around and say, "Fuck you," they said, "Fuck you back."
      There's an important difference.

      Last edited 23/11/15 12:14 pm

        To be honest i had only been following this story with passing interest, the sentiment held by the community seemed to be on of resentment, even after explanations were given.
        i may have misread that from the community.
        i wholly agree that they really fucked up with communication to begin with. i dont see the reason for hatred towards the micro transaction, especially when the impact on the experience is negligible.
        Perhaps i just hold the sentiment that if you enjoy something then you should support it to the best of your abilities, i can buy DLC, and when my funds permit me i can buy a package for a skin.
        When it becomes a matter of you cant succeed in the vanilla game without spending real world money do i get annoyed at microtransactions.
        i hadnt realised they had played it off as a reward, i thought it was introduced at the start of the event. i wonder how this would have played out had they retracted the idea after the initial outcry happened.

    I dunno what all the flame is about, I just got introduced to payday like a few weeks ago. All I know is:

    I saw a Kawaii mask I wanted.

    I wanted to give Overkill money in exchange for the mask.

    Overkill did not WANT my money. (after I just got finished spending 20$ on DLC for my birthday.)

    Turns out, the pack is a LIMITED TIME ONLY COCK SUCKER.

    So. Fuck overkill. I will now be using a DLC unlocker to get things in the game.

    I saw the mask in the game, already downloaded and everything. The game went as far as to TELL ME what DLC I need to buy to get it. That's like advertising your product during the fucking super bowl half time, then refusing to sell the product to anyone because they missed the 10 minute sale window back in 2007. WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU STILL ADVERTISING IT IF IT IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE!?!?!?

    You wanna dick me around, Overkill? Fine. Then in the spirit of Payday, imma steal your shit. You're never getting another dollar from me for anything you produce in the future.

    *Salutes*
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRh-dzrI4Z4

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