Tell Us Dammit: The Election

Image: Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images

So, the result is in. And it's all over Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, 4Chan, Reddit, everywhere else.

Trump won the election. But what do you think about it?

We've given people a few chances to chat about this around the debates. It made sense, since there were discussions popping up in comment threads all over the place. It only makes sense, then, to have another chat given that the result is finally determined.

People are going to spend weeks, months even, dissecting how the polls were so far off base. And there will probably be equal discussion based on where the Democratic party goes from here - as well as what a Trump presidency will look like for Australia and the rest of the world.

This is your chance. What's your take on the situation? Let us know in the comments, and please be civil while doing so.


    Honestly, I feel like the only thing I can say is, I'm not surprised.

    I live in Australia so I don't care.

      You're kidding yourself if you think it won't have any impact on us. It may be good, it may be bad, but the health of the American economy and their attitudes to global neighbours affect our economy and safety in many different ways.

        Also Steam prices.

          Bought a game through GMG yesterday... kinda kicking myself for not waiting a few extra days for the inevitable election reaction. The AUD has jumped 7c since yesterday...

      You should.

      This decision will have many and varied global repercussions.

      It's going to be a terrifying four years... if the world even survives that long.

      Remember, this is a man who asked during a military briefing why, if the US has all these nuclear weapons stockpiled, do they not use them...

        Well. Why aren't we using them? Let's target the whales. Gotta nuke something.

          its obvious by the downvotes that people dont know a good simpsons quote when they see one.

          That's the second Simpsons reference I'm afraid will be lost on the Kotaku community

            Doubt it's lost (at least, I hope they're not!). But he's also doing some masterful trolling on quite a raw subject with many people.

    Polls were unusual two things come to mind 1) There was a undetectable silent majority or 2) Pollsters skewed figures to help promote Hilary.--- as far as how this effects me this is a huge win for against the loudest voices dictating trends however I do feel the consequences might not be worth the "FU". but I'm not overly worried yet.

      I'm wondering if the skewed polls may have worked in an adverse fashion for Hillary - people would have been comfortable with the lead and not bothered. "Everyone else is, so my vote won't do much".

        I was thinking about the same about all the celebrity endorsements Hilary was getting, it might help get the young vote but might have a adverse effect on the older generation that don't like being told how to think. Food for thought really.

      I'm hearing pro-Trump people either refused to respond in polls or lied. I don't know if this was because they felt embarrassed by this, or are just generally more private people, or thought that Trump polling poorly would push more people to actually shot up and vote for him.

      Another factor is that uneducated white males don't tend to be factored into polls, and this is Trump's largest demographic. I don't mean anything by that, by the standards of the polls I'd fall into that demographic too as I didn't complete my tertiary education, but that's just something people have pointed out.

        I was strongly anti Hillary and had to refrain from political discussion in a number of areas due to being branded with a bunch of negative stuff i don't believe in (anti-women, anti-abortion, anti Gay marriage etc.)

        Very polarizing discussion unfortunately

      It's been pretty much deciphered by actual voting attendance. Not all the people who said they'd vote for Clinton actually got off their asses and did it. Clinton was highly disliked by a significant amount of her supporters (who were so mostly for party-loyalty or hate/fear of Trump) and those who liked or didn't mind her much were no overly enthusiastic (facts and logic stir few passions). Trump's supporters on the other hand included a significant amount of people that were stirred into a rabid frenzy of action-causing excitement either by his fearmongering, his boisterous (if mostly fake) anti-establishment rabble-rousing rhetoric or by actually wholeheartedly agreeing with his racist/sexist/jingoistic posturing.

      When you couple that with the fact that voting in America is not only not compulsory, but actively made hostile and a pain in the ass (especially, as it recently surfaced, engineered to be more of a pits to minority groups), you have an election won by he who used emotional manipulation better to motivate his followers to bother to vote.

      I think poll modelling needs to be reviewed more generally, larger sample sizes, better weighting of demographics by education, occupation, age, race and incorporating propensity to vote. It's not that the silent majority was silent but more that their voices were swallowed up in the polls by disproportionate weightings on other factors.

      I wonder how much of political analytics and polling generally is influenced by Meehl's "crud factor"?

      Pollsters skewed figures to help promote Hilary.
      This is what was happening. Media were oversampling democrats in their polls causing the numbers that favoured Hillary.

        Or, you know, it could be due to the low voter turnout.

        Trump got people emotionally involved, therefore they bothered to vote.

        While we'll never know, I'm of the opinion that if the US had compulsory voting then Trump wouldn't have won.

        Neither candidate was great. In Australia when that happens, people vote for the least worst option. In the US, they just don't vote for anyone.

        Last edited 10/11/16 5:44 pm

    Im actually intrigued.
    Trump clearly has proven success when it comes to running a company so it makes me wonder if he will treat the country like business or a something different.
    Even though i'm an Aussie, the global impacts from this well be made very apparent over the next few months.
    Besides, I just want to see how many of those A listed actors will actually move out of the US like they promised if Trump won

      Proven success? He's declared bankruptcy six times and had to rely on financial bailouts from his father or business friends. He's doing ok now but consistently lies about his wealth. By all accounts the only reason he's only considered a billionaire because he values his personal brand between $4bn-$8bn depending on his mood when he wakes up each morning.

      Edit: not to mention his failed business ventures, his sham of a university, and the fact I think he has a court appointment this week to answer to some fraud charges.

      Last edited 10/11/16 12:03 pm

        If I may add, there is also the claim he avoided having to pay tax for over a decade by somehow having a huge write off.

          He still payed tax but it wasn't a lot. He used a loophole in the system. Completely legal. He's going to be closing that loophole when he gets into office.

            The loophole he used was of dubious legality at the time, and is explicitly illegal now. It was illegal for companies to do it at the time, but not explicitly illegal for trusts. The basic trick is that rather than a creditor forgiving a debt (which is treated as taxable income), you swap the debt for stock and then write down the value of the stock.

            In the end, it is claiming a tax deduction for other people's losses. That's not how things are meant to work.

              Sure, it's not how things are MEANT to work, but that is how it DID work. Legally, he only had to pay what he did. He did not have to pay a single cent more than that.

            It's not really a positive thing to say that he followed the letter of the law instead of the spirit of the law. We typically expect stronger ethical fibre from our leaders.

      "Proven success"? He's great at self-promotion, but his father built the property empire (on the back of government contracts, natch) and Trump inherited that. He borrowed a substantial sum for his first major deal, and had to go back for more. He's had more failures than successes. He had a 900 million dollar loss.... His "university" is a massive scam. And he didn't and hasn't released his tax returns, unlike every other candidate since the mid-70s... so we honestly do not have proof of his success. Just his brand...

      He'll probably beat George W Bush for holidays taken and leave most of the work to everyone else. That's about the best possible outcome, in my opinion...

      A company isn't a country. The objective of running a country is very different. There are business skills that cross over but Trump's specific style works against it. He's extremely brand focused and while that may have done well in the campaigning side it's not really a way to get anything done. He can't build the American brand up then license it out to upstart countries.
      It's not enough to look at his successes. You have to look at why and how he succeeded and how that relates to running a country. Personally I look at his biggest successes and see things that would actually work against the country. I seriously question whether Trump can put America before himself.

        Also countries tend not to bounce back so well after bankruptcies.

    Americans are sick of corrupt politicians. So they elect a man that bragged about corrupting.

    Americans are sick of lying politicians. So they elect a brazen liar.

    What an absolute clusterfuck.

      Yeah, he lied constantly, but we simple hill-folk knew where he stood!

      Also, he's a man. And he has a winning temperament.

        If asked what colour the sky is, Clinton would say that it's a perfect blue and people would decry her blatant lies because it was a bit overcast.

        Asked the same question, Trump would declare the sky green. When people incredulously ask him if he really just said that, he'd make a rambling denial without ever making a clear position on what colour the sky is. Two days later, Trump would declare in a rally that the sky is green and his supporters would cheer.

        He tells it like it is.

          You miss the part where, when questioned about it a month later, he claims that it's obviously blue, he always said it was blue, and it's in fact his enemies who said it was green.

          you misunderstand what he is saying is the sky will be green

            couse that is what nuclear war does

      Low and Middle-class Americans seeing their wage gap increase and their situation get worse and feel they're being ignored elect the candidate that actually acknowledges they have an issue and says he'll fix it...

        Funny thing is though, republicans don't care very much for the poor so I have doubts Trump will do anything for low and middle class Americans.

        Except that same candidate bragged about how he exploited those factors for his own personal benefit. If a man came to your house, smashed your windows and then told you he was a world-class glazier, would you ask for his services?

        I get why he appealed to them. It's a very base-level appeal. The problem is that he's so blatant about his untrustworthiness that somehow it has become a marker of trustworthiness.

        But he wants to lower tax on the rich. Where is the money going to come from is tax drops massively?

          He's not saying it was a smart idea to vote for him or that those people are going to be better off now, he's just pointing out why the low and middle class voters were so attracted to someone like Trump in the first place. It's easier than you'd think to get duped under those circumstances.

        He says he'll fix it, but then refuses to say how, or gives sketchy plans that lack detail and wouldn't work.
        The wall will cost ~$20 billion, do nothing, and who will get the construction contract?
        He wants to cut the company tax rate in half and cut the top income tax rate by a third. Which will somehow help the working class, he says. Actual nonpartisan economists call bullshit and predict a huge increase in national debt, but he never answered on it.
        Politicians both here and in America often make the impossible three-way claim to cut taxes, increase spending, and reduce the debt/deficit. Don't believe it.

        And then there's the climate denying, and the trade wars, and condoning war crimes via torture and targetting the families of Syrian terrorists, and calls for nuclear proliferation ...
        And still none of that is about arguing whose personal history is the more sordid.

      It's true, Americans are sick of corrupt politicians. That's why they voted for the candidate that wasn't sponsored by businesses and didn't have to answer to businesses.

        That's right, Trump is basically Karl Marx!

        You shouldn't drink so much early in the day.

        What kind of faulty logic says the best way to move the presidency away from business interests is to hand it to the exact kind of dirty businessman that caused the problems in the first place?

          Set a thief to catch a thief, apparently? I mean, that was Trump's answer to the complaints about his having not paid any tax. Basically: ''ll fix it so no-one can do all the unethical shit that I've got away with.'

    I said it earlier, but I keep having moments where I laugh to myself when I remember that Donald Trump actually became president.

      It really doesn't seem real. It's a joke. That sort of thing doesn't happen in the REAL world, just in comedies to highlight how fucking absurd they are.

    Trump supporters voted because they felt like they had a cause to fight for. This gave ancient armies the edge, and the same goes for non-compulsary voting.

    Even if you think it's fine for the US to undergo radical internal changes (this doesn't effect me, etc), International relations are sure to become... interesting.

    I wasn't too phased about it until I read something just before. He is a huge climate change sceptic. And has employed a major sceptic. This poses massive challenges for the protection of the environment as no countries do anything drastic unless the US goes there first.
    Also the whole bigotry, racist agendas that he promotes. I feel for everyone not a white middle class male.

      yeah, and just last night after he gave his victory speech, you could not wipe the smile of the faces of Bolt and Bernardi happily calling climate change and gobal warming a scam

      He hasn't just "employed a major sceptic", he's employed a major sceptic as the head of the Environmental Protection Agency.

    I'm scared for anyone in america that isn't white, straight and gender binary.

      This is the kind of hyperbole that the media encourages and feeds. A small amount of research will show that Trump is not against POC and not against LGBTQI people.

      And even if he were, it's not like he could magically get congress to enact federal laws to persecute these people.

      All this fear and hysteria is just fluff and nonsense.

        Don't forget that his running mate is a batshit ultra conservative religious nut who is 100% for conversion therapy for LGBTQI people.

          indeed i have guild mates who live in the US who despise Clintion yet voted for her not because they dont like trump but because they are shit scared of pence becoming President should trump resign/get impeached/ god forbid assassinated

          He also wanted to see LGBTQI couples jailed for even applying for a marriage licence.

          And now he's the incumbent American Vice President...

        it's not like he could magically get congress to enact federal laws to persecute these people.

        They don't need to enact new persecution laws, they just need to avoid passing laws that PREVENT persecution.

        Last edited 11/11/16 2:28 pm

    I feel like asking people what they think about Trump is going to lead to a harder day at work for the mods, but he's a disgusting person.

    He's been recorded bragging about sexually assaulting women, calling all manner of groups all manner of horrible things, his notion of foreign policy is more or less "if they aren't paying for it I won't provide it", he's said supportive things of some of the most horrific leaders that are currently in power, as a business man he would have been bankrupt for the stupidity of his plans were it not for the fact his name was what made the failed casinos worth anything to the banks he owed shitloads to, he's an absolute idiot and worst of all he's an idiot who thinks he's a genius. Disgusting.

    The fact that a single person voted for him is unbelievable and the fact that enough voted for him to get the presidency is legitimately shocking.

      As for him being a good businessman, bar the fact that politics and business are very different things, he's hopeless at that as well. 4 of his businesses filed for bankruptcy and while those may not have entirely been his fault the decisions that led to those bankruptcies were - heavy investment in gambling when it was already on the decline not once, but 3 times, is his fault (or at least he allowed it to happen).

      Aside from that, one of the major "business strategies" he's regularly used is to avoid paying his workers their full wages. Not only that, but he also payed them just enough that it would be more expensive for them to sue than it would be to just accept the loss, going so far as to sue a business to avoid paying the other 50% of the original price of the work. If he tries the same thing on a political stage the result could be devastating, worst case scenario it could incite war of which Trump's main idea is "bomb the hell out of them".

      He's ruthless, stupid and has only his father's extraordinary wealth and a lot of luck to attribute to his position and I sincerely hope that his party have the ability to reign him in.

        Excellent post. Might I add - undocumented immigrants were used extensively on building projects he commissioned. He's a hypocrite of the highest order.

        I don't think those things are in dispute. Hillary was just seen as being dishonest and in the pocket of big business and foreign interests. If you look into the Clinton Foundation at the time that Hillary was foreign secretary, it makes for some interesting reading. Have a look at Clinton Cash as well.

        Trump doesn't smell of roses, but Hillary stinks worse than he does.

          Yes, voting for the guy that openly admits to being corrupt is a brilliant alternative to voting for the woman that was leaked as being corrupt.


            ^the favourite saying of gullible morons everywhere

    The result was well within the polling margin of error. 1% towards Clinton, she'd have won by about the same margin Trump won by. It was that close.

    It's worrying though. As with Brexit, this will embolden the nastier elements. We'll see a rise in race violence (and with the simmering tensions over police shootings that lead to BlackLivesMatter, this could escalate fast into riots like post-Rodney King).

    Worst of all, a wilfully ignorant vindictive narcissistic short-tempered isolationist demagogue will soon be 3 feet from the "football"... with his party in control of both houses, and a Supreme Court vacancy with likely at least one more vacancy in the next couple of years.

    Will Putin take advantage of Trump's stated isolationism to further his own ends in the Balkans or other border skirmishes? NATO's lack of action over Georgia or Crimea (or MH17...) might spur him on. Especially with Trump saying he wants to back away from NATO. Or will Trump walk all this back, and cuddle up to Putin?

    What I do know is, we've had 3 generations since WW2. It doesn't take a great deal for things to spiral out of control (WW1 was catalysed by the assassination of a minor royal, after all... 17 million deaths later...).

    This is a crossroads in history. The more dangerous path was chosen.

      I'm far less concerned about a Trump presidency than I am about the fact he appeals to the racists, the sexists, the bigots and misogynists, and those people will feel emboldened with him in charge. Even here in Australia we had university students chanting "grab them by the pussy" until they were ejected from an election party. Trump promised to expel muslims from the country so we can expect to see an uptick in racially-motivated crimes because people will feel like crimes against muslims no longer count. We've already had hillbillies in MAGA caps telling people of colour about how they're going back to the cotton fields once Trump comes into power. Trump can't control the fact that the KKK supports him, but it sure doesn't help anything.

        Yep. Stochastic terrorism and all that. Just like Palin's campaign putting target symbols over "target opponents" and then being shocked, I tell you, shocked! when someone actually shot one of those opponents. (Gabby Giffords, for the record). Hateful speech incites hateful actions. Scary shit.

    Personally reconsidering plans to travel to America next year... Get the feeling once Trump actualy takes office, it's just going to lead to more hate and more guns (he is one of those people saying school shootings wouldn't happen if the teachers and kids had guns to defend themself after all).
    Not sure that's a place I really want to go.

    Americans were given the choice between a neocon who looks shady and an entitled rich guy who looks shady, but isn't establishment shady.

    I don't even know. Politics is gross. Last night I watched the guy who said he wants to build walls say that he's going to unify the country. The guy who said he wants to lock her up say how she's done so much for the country. The same guy who supposedly speaks his mind, straight away says the same traditional nonsense as soon as he gets the job.

    I know Hillary would have said the same platitudes about Donald if she won, but my god, if it isn't some terrifying sideshow that doesn't mean anything.

    I'm glad he didn't stand up and say he wants to return America to the glory of the Weimar replublic and now let's lock Clinton up, but god, where's the truth anywhere and where are the decent people in politics.

      I do find it hilarious that people think that trumpet is anti-establishment when he benefits from the establishment in every possible way.

      Well that's the silver lining. I think the people supporting Trump are going to become just as cynical towards this sort of non-politician candidate as they are towards regular politicians. Next time they someone plays the not a politician card they're going to be much less likely to follow.

        My GF also hopefully suggested - in trying to find a silver lining - that maybe the awesome weight of responsibility and his advancing age will inspire some kind of feeling of responsibility. Maybe Obama will say something in the hand-over that touches him. (The office ages and wearies ANYONE who touches it.) And at least there won't be crazy armed seccessionist/civil war/violence?

        It's pretty hard to find silver linings, here. Repealing state health care, endorsing torture, rejecting the concept of separation of church and state, climate change denial, aggressively hostile and selfish foreign policy... nothing looks good. Nothing.

          Yeah, it's a bit hard finding positives here. I mean maybe if we're lucky he's going to do such a bad job internationally that it cuts America's role in global affairs down to a more appropriate level. Maybe this will be the wake up call that the GFC should have been and we'll all distance ourselves from the US economy. In both cases we're talking about big messes with a lot of people getting hurt.

          Or if not responsibility, then at least self-aggrandisement, which we know he can't get enough of. He strikes me as someone with a bottomless appetite for more power, more glory, more everything. Maybe it won't satisfy him to just be President, maybe he'll want to go down in history as a great, beloved saviour of a President. Which might steer him towards decisions that won't be too catastrophic.

          And while he's obviously a repulsive, boorish scumbag of a person, maybe the vileness of his character won't have too much impact on his actual policies. I also retain some faith that the arcane nature of their system will prevent him from doing anything too crazy.

            Well, someone did point out recently that in the weeks leading up to the election he did basically alienate everyone in the Republican party, calling them traitors and scum and threatening their livelihoods.

            If you look into the legalities of it, there's not actually a whole lot a president can actually do, in terms of concrete action, without congressional approval. It's why so much of what Obama tried to do got stymied by a hostile Republican congress. The only way he was able to achieve anything was by making compromises and deals... I expect much the same of President Fuckface von Clownstick.

    I'm very scared at what's going to happen and kind of alarmed at how many people outside of the US are brushing it off as inconsequential. No matter what happens, Trump's election has global consequences and many of them aren't good. It's going to be an "interesting" 4 years.

      Just taking the lead in the election tanked stock markets across the world. He doesn't even get sworn in until January and he's already causing problems :/

        LOL, most of that was a self-fulfilling prophecy. People thought Trump being elected would tank markets and therefore sold before that happened, thereby triggering the dive. It wasn't based on fundamentals so much as cynicism.

    Trump deserves a chance. He's already walking back some of the promises he's made (like banning muslims, for example). Congress and the Senate will keep him in check (just as designed). People are acting like he's ushering in the end-times. What a load of nonsense.

      I wish I could agree with you but congress and the senate are controlled by republicans and Trump is a climate change denier. We need to take action on the climate now, not in four or eight years time. If he wasn't lying about rolling back the climate action the US is taking now this is an extinction level event. Sad.

      Or in other words, he promised a lot of things to appeal to the majority of voters and then once he got elected he's backflipping on them.

      Last edited 10/11/16 1:20 pm

        Which means he's going to piss off the 50% of the country that voted for him, while the 50% that didn't are still going to hate him.

      You just believed that Trump will make anime real. Well, he won't. Sorry.

    I'm no conspiracy theorist, but my thought is that the Republican party backed him because his polls showed the best chances of winning compared to any other Republican candidate.

    I don't think the Republican party is dumb though.

    Given Trumps track record of sexism, racism, bigotry, and so forth, I kind of think that the party is expecting him to get impeached over something or other sooner rather than later.
    Say, for something like abuse of power, which is an impeachable offence, and something that is very likely on the cards for him to do given his attitude towards almost everything.

    Trying to bully Mexico into paying for the construction of a wall = abuse of power

    Trying to silence journalists about what they can and cannot write about = abuse of power

    "punishing" those who did not support him (which is a direct quote from Trump) = abuse of power

    So, I think the Republicans backed him as he had the best chances of winning, and are going to be looking for the correct time to boot him out and replace him with Pence, who is arguably the better choice of the two, but never would have had the polling power to beat Hillary.

    It is only a matter of time before he gets impeached, after all.
    I mean, he could probably be impeached for saying that "grab them by the pussy" line, which would have been wonderful had it come out after he was elected.

    Either way, I'm certain that it will not last the full 4 years. Maybe 2, at the most.


      I think Kanye could be the only person who could possibly be worse than trump for president.

      Michelle Obama I can see being a legit candidate though.

        As happy as I'd be to be wrong, I don't think Michelle has a chance. She'll carry a lot of the baggage that the right dumped on Barack but with the added complication of her lacking a Y chromosome.

      I think the Republicans just bit off more than they could chew. They saw he was popular and jumped on the chance to have someone people actually liked running, without realising what it actually meant.

      I will say I think Trump wanted to lose and now wants to be impeached. Judging by his 'it's all rigged' stuff he wanted to get out without having to follow through on anything, write a book about how he was crucified for telling it like it is and keep the Trump brand relevant.

      well - impending rape case in court next month for him soooooo...

    I for one welcome our new overlord !!!!!

    We all know its the rug that is running the man, Trump is just the front for an alien race of super intelligent hair pieces set for total world domination.

    Seriously though, while I can see the reasons for his election, I struggle to see the merit behind it. My main concern is for the people who voted him in and the consequences they may face. Obama Care for example has benefited the working class the most, yet Trump has stated he will axe it.

    But at the end of the day I am not informed enough to know all the ins and outs and to judge from the outside. They voted him in and we should give him a chance before we completely write him off, you just never know

    Also if people really think that the president runs the country and can just do what he wants then they need to look at the struggles Obama has had trying to get anything done over his terms. Trump has already started to soften his approach as seen in his acceptance speech.

    The sun still came up today, as it will tomorrow and hopefully still will in 4 years time. this is not the first time America has elected a complete knob to the highest office.

      Obama had issues because the republicans controlled the senate (basically the same thing we have here in Aus where the libs have got nothing done for years because the senate is mostly labour, greens and minor parties).
      Now though Trump will be coming in with a republican controlled senate, so the theory is that he will have free reign for any crazy racist ideas he has. We'll just have to wait and see really though.

      There are two things that are markedly different between this term and the previous 2. Trump will have a sympathetic Congress, and the ability to appoint two sympathetic Supreme Court judges. That means there are significantly fewer checks and balances against any of his more radical policies.

    Real Life became an episode of The Simpsons so gradually, I didn't even notice!

    Legitimately afraid for the future of the world. That's how I feel.

    Depending on how much damage gets done, theres a very real chance that trump will only have power for 2 years, as in 2 years time the house and senate will be up for grabs again. So if trump and republicans really fuck shit up you can be sure as hell that democrats will regain control of the house and senate.

    The other thing to note is that while the republicans control the house and senate, not all of them support trump and that has the ability to completely destroy the republican party as a whole.

    Another thing to point out is the simple fact that Both Obama and Clintion are actualy to the right of Saint Ronald Regan, and yet trump and republican supporters call them left wing wackos, which goes to show just how far to the right the republican party currently is.

    It's an awful, terrifying result, heralding dark days for civil rights, social welfare and a lot more... but a result they had coming.

    Seems to me like only 25.5% of the US got to decide the direction of their nation, primarily because 50% of the country couldn't be fucking bothered to vote. You cannot put a HUNDRED MILLION VOTERS failing to show down to 'voter suppression'. Apathy was the overwhelming majority.

    Additionally, I reckon it turns out that the winners in globalization and progressivism are outnumbered by those whose lives have been getting materially worse, but who it's been politically acceptable to ignore/mock because they were previously seen as privileged. Much the same as the reasons behind Brexit.

    Conversation being had in the US right now, previously had in the UK:

    "Globalization/progressivism is great for the nation overall, on average!"
    "Maybe, but we're worse off, and we don't like it."
    "Yes, but it's better on average, so you'll just have to accept your sacrifice for the greater good. You've had it good, it's someone else's turn, now. Like the 1%."
    "Fuck that and fuck you for saying it. I'm voting for anyone who says otherwise; true or not."
    "Holy shit there's a lot of you. HOLY SHIT. Do you realize what you've done?"
    "Don't know, don't care. If we stayed YOUR course, we were going to stay worse off. At least this way we get to roll the fucking dice."

    I see a lot of folks complaining that it's about racism and fear-mongering, but I think that's (ironically) close-minded; dismissive of what has turned out to be the majority. I refuse to believe that the majority of voters are motivated by hate and bigotry. I really do think that whatever hate vote might've existed would've been eclipsed (/bolstered by) the simple fact that a lot of folks were simply unhappy with how their fortunes have been getting worse under the establishment, and voted against it. I'm pretty sure that's how Trump even got past the primaries. He labelled all his career politician opponents as, 'the establishment' and promised to not be them. And Hillary (a corrupt, career politician who nobody in their right mind would've voted for if she had faced any opponent other than that cancerous human cheezel) bloody exemplifies the establishment.

    Last edited 10/11/16 1:31 pm

      I think you've hit the nail on the head RE: the mindset of the Trump voter. And that leads to two very important points:

      1) They aren't struggling because of misgovernance, but rather a natural evolution of the economy away from low-skill manufacturing jobs (or equivalent). There's no point waiting for someone to bring these jobs back (they won't), rather they need to find their place in a post-industrial country like the citizens of most other developed nations have already done.
      2) Even if it was possible to get back to the "good ol' days", do they honestly think Trump is the one to do it? You say that Clinton exemplifies the political establishment (and you're 100% right), but Trump represents the economical establishment to a tee. And it was the latter that truly got them in the position they're in today.

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