Talk Amongst Yourselves

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    Who loves Monday mornings?

    *slurps coffee*

      I'm not minding it today, but that's cos I'm not working. I begin my second attempt at a graduated return to work tomorrow though, so soon enough I'll likely be back to disliking them. Though I never quite disliked them as much as Tuesday mornings. Probably cos traffic always seems to be worse on the way to work on Tuesdays.

        Yeah, I really don't mind any particular day tbh, just sticking to the "corporate drone" narrative :P

        I'm onto my second coffee and it's not even 930 btw... Oh, and the internet at our Sydney office is down, meaning our phone and ticketing systems are both down, meaning I'm sitting here watching twitch streamers do their thing.

        All in all, not a bad start :D

          haha doesn't sound too shabby at all :)

      I normally don't mind them but I've been sick all week

        Yech, nothing major I hope?

          I hope not. Going doctors today

          Just a virus it seems


              Yes. Stop giving me headaches of varying intensity and making my nose run. I have things to do

                Seems like a fair & logical request, i'll get back to you in 5-10 business days.


      Yep, i'm finding mine especially hard today. Owing to the fact that i stayed up til 4:30am, helping my wife submit her mid year reports. (She's a grade 1 teacher)

      *sculls double strength coffee*
      *cries on the inside*

    /reply fail

    Last edited 29/05/17 8:51 am

    Morning TAY. Did anyone else play the ARMS beta this last weekend? I was surprised and impressed with it all. Went from not-that-interested to buying it on day one probably.



      I've been hearing very good things, I'm quite keen to see it.

      I'm sure @raejohnston is going to be very busy this week talking about it!

      The trailer I saw when I went to see Alien Covenant looked really good, I wouldn't mind going to see it. Well me being me, i'll wait for a home release since my local cinemas are awful, the seat next to me when I saw Alien had a huge chunk carved out of it lol.


        Seriously considering going to see WW again this weekend in 3D this time!

    Woo. The new Alestorm album came out last week, 'tis a good one. Especially the comical song "Fucked with an Anchor", they also have a shirt with that song title on it, which i'm just gonna have to buy.

      Hopefully they tour back through Aus again sometime, PIratefest was awesome. Fucked with an Anchor almost seems to be my theme song right now, more by accident than anything. Cant deny the catchness of Mexico though

        Hopefully either late this year or next year they'll sail down our way!

        Mexico is great, stereotypical video to boot & No Grave But The Sea the chorus is extremely catchy. This album is way better than Sunset on the Golden Age.

        Did you ever see the mash up the singer Chris did with Magnetic North & Lady Gaga's song Telephone? they basically wrote Magnetic North to the tune of Telephone it turns out lol.

          The music video for Magnetic North is much funnier once you realize its mocking gaga's effort. I never put it together before now

            Yeah I didn't realise that when it first came out, but only when I stumbled across that mashup lol.

      Oh god, that song is amazing. That's going to be on loop for a long time.

      f*** you, you're a f***in' wanker, we're going to punch you, right in the balls!

        Haha. So good, and Chris' Scottish accent makes it even better imo.

      I went to see Alestorm with @Strange once! Was a great night! :D

      Speaking of albums, I received my vinyl of Frenzal's new album today!! w00t!!!

        Aw, that's awesome!

        Ah yes, the song titles are a crack up from what i've seen. I like the title "cunt act" sounds like a promising song.

        Last edited 30/05/17 5:21 pm

          haha yeah it's a good'n! That's the first song they released. Put out a video too!

            That's a great video! Good song too. I ended up listening to most of the album on YouTube it's pretty awesome. Might grab it when i'm in JB next, if they have any copies.

              Well worth it :) There's only one song on the whole album that didn't pretty much instantly hook me. I'm sure it'll grow on me though. They always do!

      Thanks for drawing my attention to this. As amazing as usual and holy shit that song.

        No worries :D I just bought a bunch of their shirts last night which included this gem. Can't wait for that to rustle some jimmies.

    Yay Computex starts today (or yesterday). Hopefully we see some ITX boards for Ryzen, also hopefully Silverstone has some baller cases to show off. But we'll probably see 1000w SFX PSU from them, since they showed off an 800w SFX PSU last year & some mediocre at best cases.

      @alexwalker are you going to Computex or anyone from Gizmodo going?

        Cam from Gizmodo is going this year. You'll see a good chunk of his stuff on the site as the week pans out; I'll help cover some of the conferences though.

      Speaking of Ryzen, QNAP had some beastly looking 8-bay NAS devices with what looked like Ryzen desktop CPUs in them. Can't imagine the kind of transcoding/streaming etc those things would need to perform!

        Holy fuck, 4 SSD bays as well. That's some serious use. If that can take up to 10TB a bay, then it would be an awesome home theatre server, could have uncompressed blu-ray rips would be amazing.

        I'm probably going to move to an 8 bay NAS/PLEX Server this year, just need to get a few more hard drives & a new case.

          Mmmmm, imagine 4x Evo 850s in RAID10 for the OS/apps, 8x10TB disks in RAID10.

          Sooooo many linux distros...


            Make that 960's and we'll talk :P

              Hrmm, there's only 2x m.2 slots though, as opposed to 4x 2.5" slots.

              I wonder what would be faster, RAID0 NVMe SSDs, or RAID10 SATA3 SSDs...

                At a guess, I'd say probably the NVMe's would still be faster. Most 2.5" ssd's top out at around 550Mb/sec, where as even the 960 EVO is capable of 3200Mb/sec, while the pro is capable of 3500. Even having 4 ssd's maximizing their parallel throughput, it wouldn't come close.

                  True, PCI-E is always going to be faster. I think I'd prefer the RAID10 though, you get the redundancy with it then.

                  @morkai Redundancy is sure good for mass storage. Running windows and games on NVMe is deadset heavenly though :)
                  I only sprung for the EVO when I upgraded, as the Pro was like an extra $100+ for only an extra 300Mb/s, and I'm not disappointed at all. I mean sure, 300Mb/sec in the grand scheme of things adds up to a LOT of data, but I honestly don't feel like I'm missing out. The speed at which data moves around on this drive just blows my mind! I can only imagine what it'd be like if I added a second and made them in to a striped pair! :0

                Oh damn it, I thought Samsung released a 960 EVO is a 2.5" form factor, my bad.

                  ahh nah. Even if they did release it as 2.5, it'd still only be sata, so limits the bandwidth anyway. They could get around it by making it sata express, which would bump it to around 1200Mb/s, but who knows if they ever will. I have still yet to see a single drive marked as Sata express.
                  Plus using Sata express has a catch with most boards. You generally get a choice of using M.2 or Sata Express, as they both operate on the same pci-e lanes.

                  @welbot yeah, I hear that. Still 4x 850 EVO's in RAID 0 is plenty fast for any day to day consumer based NAS stuff :P

        I have a 5 SSD RAID0 setup for film work. When each frame is 120MB and you want to process 24 frames a second for realtime, drives are never fast enough :(

          Good lord... That's a shiteload of bandwidth!

          Translation; you use that setup to rip and convert movies in under 20 seconds.


            Restoring the original Star Wars movies from theatrical prints.

              Hurry up and finish them! Or I'm sending a truck load of Vegemite per day until you do!


    Does anyone know if the Wii-U pro controllers work on the Switch at all?

      Don't think so. I have both so I'll just right now...

      Sorry, champ. Internet says no and just trying anyway confirms it.

      I know it stinks but if you decided buy one, the Switch Pro controller is will worth the price.

      It's far better than the Wii U's in terms of handing. At least that how it feels to me. I always felt the Wii U Pro controller was a step down from that on the Wii.

    Overwatch is $49 on PS4 at BigW today. Is it worth picking up? Does it have any offline play at all?

      I've only got the PC version, but that's got like a training arena where you can play against non-moving NPC/bot things, and there may well be bot matches, but nothing else as far as I'm aware.

    OK, with all the hype about it I decided to give Bendy and the Ink Machine a shot.

    I usually avoid horror games because I scare easily and with high blood pressure doing so is basically me trying to put myself in the grave before my time.

    Having seen let's plays on this I though I was prepared. But nope; the sound really ads an edge that isn't on YouTube. Especially how I have a 3.1 amp (don't have the rear speakers connected) attached to the PC.

    The biggest scares I had though is when the Bendy cut out kept moving. And I don't mean the jump scare in the hallway. I mean the cut out after one goes in the break room.

    Is it wrong that I was more afraid of not finding that cut out than seeing it in my face?

      If a horror game does tension well, then it wil make you panic. However, there is a fine line between tension and frustration.

        However, there is a fine line between tension and frustration.

        I actually know that line; it's call Doom 3.

        No joke, when I first tried to play it, it creeped me out. But then a co-worker heard me talking about the game and was chuckling.

        I asked him what as so funny. Turns out he had worked out the stock pattern basically used on every door.

        According to him, when one goes through a door (this is from memory so sorry about inaccuracies), I will have one enemy behind me (the room I came from), followed by one in the room I'm trying to enter and lastly one to the side (wall allowing).

        Didn't believe him but then I tried the game again and found his was right.

        Needless to say, it wasn't long before I would groan in annoyance when I came to a door and soon put the game down not because I was scared but because I was getting annoyed.

          I find that a lot of horror games struggle with that fine line. Project Zero which tends to do quite well, missed the mark with their "reach" mechanic. There was a random chance of a ghost hand attacking you when you reached for an item. It stopped being tension inducing and began to be annoying instead, pretty quickly

            If I am allowed to ask, where would you put the FNaF games?

              Not very good. Jump scares with no tension are useless. When I heard it was all jump scares I lost interest

                I wouldn't say it is all Jump Scares; unless seeing something one doesn't expect on the camera counts.

                Truth be told, the jump scares only happen if one loses (the animatronic gets to the player).

                There are more in FNaF 3 but that mistake was corrected in FNaF 4.

                I'm not gonna lie, I never played those games (just watching Markiplier Let's Plays has me freaking out) but I have been interested in the lore that is covered by The Game Theorist.

                I had thought about getting the books but I think the lore is now in a state where Scott Cawthon just changes it to screw with the Game Theorist these days.

                  Yeah, I would say things appearing unexpectedly is a jump scare.
                  The art of tension requires a subtle balance. Imagine a swell of music that suddenly cuts out when a door is opened. That helps create tension. Nothing is happening but now you're expecting it but you don't know what or when.

    Ugh... want to find a rock to crawl under. Sick day was a terrible time to try to learn a new programming language...

      I suggest a kind of game as a project: build a spaceship in code. Assuming your space is x,y,z you need a 3d grid array. An engine code block transfers force by expelling propellant moving the ship. A fuel tank code block provides a fixed amount of fuel divided by number of engines it supplies. Cargo block is extra mass. So just try and move the code blocks as a group through the array in which you store them.

      Not usually the best combination. What language are you learning?

        Decided to give Go a try, so I'm working on porting my Bungie API workflow app from Node. Figure it's a pretty good test subject - REST API interaction, (somewhat fudged) OAuth authentication, file management, file compression/decompression and SQLite database interaction.

          Good choice. I haven't had the time to look at Go but it sounds like an interesting language. Static typing would probably be a change for you coming from JS but it's the only sane way to program in my opinion.

            Haven't used static-typed langauges in quite a while - spent most of my time in PHP, JS and Python... but have done some Java and C# relatively recently, and I moved to PHP from C#, so I never got too crazy with dynamic typing... Also drawing on my year with C programming in Uni for pointers/references and such, so it's not too hard... it's not F# or Erlang levels of "wtf?" :P

            Still, I love that the language is smart enough to be able to infer types. Being able to declare variables on the fly like:

            response, err := http.Get(someUrl)

            And have the language infer 'response's type from the initialisation is really nice... less so that I have to read the response body as a bytestream, but eh. Only bugbear I currently have is with error handling... I need to read some of the built-in packages to get a better idea of how to do it elegantly; as it stands, every call seems followed by a mandatory "if err != nil { ... }" block, which feels cumbersome coming from a decade of error callbacks and try-catch blocks.

              Yeah, type inference is nice. Java's unfortunately been a bit behind with that for a while, but C# style type inference (int x = 1; var y = x;) is a proposal currently under consideration (JEP 286) but I don't think it was evaluated soon enough to make the cut for Java 9.

    So I'm sitting here in a spare period, on my Internship, considering everything I've gone through in the last five and a half years.

    One or two of you have been here with me, along for the ride over a long, long period of time and it's been a blast. My time with Kotaku's forums etc have been fun, they're not coming to an end, but may end up scaling back a lot. I've got two weeks to go and then I'm thrust back out into the working world as a full teacher.

    While some may comment 'there's no work for teachers', that's simply not true in Queensland, dependent on the field you want to go into or the area in which you're willing to go. I myself just received the offer of an interview for a position, DRT teaching, today. You're established at a school, work replacement for a full time 3 year contract and by the end of this period, gain permanency. I'm eager to do the interview, and I know I have the fact I'm a 39 year old male with life experience behind me working in my favour, which is something I intend to embrace fully.

    It's been five and a half years of hell at times, University has meant I had to sacrifice a *lot* for my son and I, such as living back at home to ensure we could get this done in a short time, there was a year of Tafe to redo grade 12, four and a half years (the half year came due to family issues extending it out), and all I can say is after all of this, it's been 100% worth it. I've never felt as at home in a job as I have in this. I hated IT, I hated retail and loathed labouring, none of them were 'me', but this is 100%.

    So, to all of you who kept me sane during this time, thank you so much :)

    To those of you I've argued with: Thank you so much too :)

    To those of you who sat back and said: "Fuck me he talks a lot" Thanks too because it kept me from going off the deep end.

    To my son, it's put a lot of strain on our relationship, strained our dynamic as father and son at times, but we've finally come through it and in two weeks time, everything changes for the better :)

    And to Serrels and everyone else thanks for providing me with a daily read, often helping me keep my shit together through some *really* really stressful times when I just needed to keep my mind off other things, and some of those things were pretty full on.

    I'm pretty excited about all of this, as you can probably tell, I haven't posted in here like this in a long, long time, but it's almost here and what can I say, it's the biggest thing I've had happen to me since my son was born :)

    Thanks everyone, you've all helped wether you had a clue or not.

    Shoutout to @wisehacker and his incessant Trek references to stir me lol

    Last edited 02/06/17 9:17 am

      So great to hear you're doing well, and more importantly, happy with where you are :) Super tops news!
      I gather from your post that you're teaching in QLD? Where abouts are you (also what keen to know what school you're teaching in too!)

        Teaching out near Inala/Forest Lake/Springfield Area, I can't really say where due to privacy laws. If anyone did track me down on here (kids are nefariously clever) I could get in a lot of trouble :)

        Thanks for the well wishes :)

          ahh all good :) That's close enough for me ;) Was more to see if you were at a school I'd worked at before, but doesn't sound like it. At least you'[re on the good side of town though! We should meet up sometime :)

      While some may comment 'there's no work for teachers', that's simply not true

      Speaking as one who has been an academic and has had the chance lecture for one semester during my time as a Uni post-doc, I can safely say that above comment would only come from someone who has never been a teacher.

      There's plenty of work for teachers, the problem is resources are below what is needed.

      That aside though, best of luck with you future endeavours.

      Or, as Spock would put it, live long and prosper, Weresmurf.

        Thanks man :) And yeah resources are definitely low as I've seen. I'm resigned to the idea I'm going to be bulk ordering A4 paper off of ebay for myself and printer cartridges... the Governments gonna love me claiming business expenses lol

          Yeah, we would spend about $2500 each per annum on school supplies etc. for our classes, there is a big shortfall in the public schools, even for basic things like glue-sticks and pencils.

        Speaking as one who has been an academic and has had the chance lecture for one semester during my time as a Uni post-doc, I can safely say that above comment would only come from someone who has never been a teacher.

        Well, teacher in NSW for 5 years, and married to a teacher who just left teaching this year, there is very little work, and a massive oversupply at least in the towns we were in. A recent meeting on how to meet new accreditation standards had nearly 80 casual teachers turn up, and there is typically work for about 8-12 casuals on any given day here. The oversupply here is insane.
        Full time positions are incredibly scarce, and the schools would rather lump two classes in together than hire a casual for the day. Class sizes are up over 30 students in nearly every class.
        Schools *need* more teachers, but aren't hiring them, at least in NSW, in the many places we have worked, and it is getting worse.
        I'm glad you got work, and it leads to a full time position after three years, that is excellent news for you, and yeah, being a mature age male helps you jump the queue quite a bit. The two schools we were just at have an average 11 and 15 year (respectively) gap from part time or casual until you get a full time position. Other schools in regional NSW have similar times, so it is nice to see someone scoring a full time position within a reasonable amount of time.

          Yeah it's amazing the situation variance. NSW has a gross oversupply of teachers while Qld has a gross oversupply of jobs. Yet when you talk to people about moving, most just don't want to (well aware not all can of course). It's their choice of course, but I went into this myself knowing there's definitely sacrifices I'm going to have to make in terms of locations to live etc.

          One option I heard, was to simply stop the BEDU program for three years or so, which would impact drastically of course on peoples lifestyles, or to at least push babyboomers out of their positions they're inhabiting well past their time (thanks Government!)

          A recent meeting on how to meet new accreditation standards had nearly 80 casual teachers turn up, and there is typically work for about 8-12 casuals on any given day here. The oversupply here is insane.

          I stand corrected then. Given how my co-workers and myself were treated I though many avoided the job as word got to potential teachers early on and they moved on to better paying (and better treated) jobs.

          High load, poor resources, illogically low pay but worst of all (at least for me) the internal politics.

          I myself never got beyond the casual placement. I eventually saw my old work place was too ingrained with its own politics so in the end I let my latest yearly contract finish and just didn't put my hand up for another year.

          I was an undergrad there and even got my PhD there yet the internal positions kept going to others and even to those who were new and had never even worked there let alone studied there.

          I could have made a scene on the way out (and I had every right to do so!), but instead I simply left quietly. No fan-fair, no problem. I just came back one weekend the following year, cleared out and even cleaned my old office, and returned my keys.

          Ironically, I still left a mark though. Turns out, I was one of the best at a specific task (understandably, can't say what it was) so there were some headaches trying to retrain someone.

    Oh. That X299 ITX board from ASRock that was shown off at Computex is awesome. It's full of features, 3x M.2 slots & quad channel SODIMM memory, AC wireless, dual gigabit Ethernet, 6x Sata 6 GBPS, 6x USB 3.0, 2x USB 3.1 type & type c, bluetooth 4.2

    Kinda want it with a 6 core i7 7800X and stick a GTX 1080Ti in there along with some overkill amount of ram (64GB) & 3 Samsung 960 EVO M.2 SSD's cause why not. But that would cost way too much. Given the CPU & motherboard along would be close to a grand here.

      You'll definitely need a higher end cpu like that to run the quad channel. Not all the new lines coming out support it. You can check it easily enough on the intel site though. The 7800x will though. Only having 28 pcie lanes might be an issue though if you want to run all 3 m.2 slots. In my current system, you can only use the second m.2 slot if you have a 40 lane cpu (which lucky for me I do thanks to careful planning ;) )
      Something to be aware of, and look out for when they release more details about the full specs of the board. Running m.2 drives at full speed required 4 pci-e lanes EACH. So 3 drives = 12 lanes. Then you've got lanes reserved for sata, graphics, network etc. Won't leave a lot of breathing room (which is why you can only do it with 40 lane cpu's at present)
      Whether that changes with these new boards, can't say yet, but I very much doubt it'll be any different, so you should definitely look in to that.
      As for your 64gb of SO-DIMM memory.. damn! are you made of money?! ;) You'll be looking at close to $600 for the ram alone at current prices!!

        Yeah, hadn't completely thought that one through :P But you're right, the Core i9 7900X is much more suited for that board, 44 PCI-E lanes.

        I mean if I had the money and was going to, yeah i'd drop 64GB's in it "for the lulz".

        Speaking of PCI-E lanes, man X399 from AMD, 64 PCI-E lanes and 4090 pins on the socket is insane.

          At least they moved the pins off the damn cpu at long last ;)

            Agreed. But I think sadly it's only for this Threadripper, I was hoping Ryzen was gonna be an LGA socket CPU.

              I didn't think they'd ever change! They seem so stuck in their ways! Just have to wait and see what the future brings. Perhaps it's the turning point for them, or perhaps it's just a one off for this line? Should be interesting to see.

                Probably because the thing is so fucking huge. They probably had no other choice but to go LGA lol. Like the CPU from pics i've seen is about the size of the palm of your hand. Stupidly big.

                  amd cpu's have always been pretty big compared to intel. that does sound a bit absurd though!

                Well it's got about 2x the pins that X299 has, which is 2066. So yeah, insanely big die size & IHS.

                  yeah, but as is usually the case with AMD, I'd totally not be surprised if it was outperformed by the smaller intel ones ;) Bigger doesn't always mean better. In a purely logical sense, you'd think that more points of contact would potentially mean more room for information flow, but I think I'd be more surprised if the threadripper outperformed an equivalent i9 than if it didn't ;) By a big margin anyway. Not talking minimal differences like they've been showing with the Ryzen/i7 comparisons.

                Biggest thing about Threadripper will be is the smallest one is gonna probably be Sub $1000 USD from what i've seen ($850) apparently. But, that's the slower clock speed 16 core one, the faster one won't be as cheap sadly.

                To be honest though, even though the i9-7980XE will be $2000, it's gonna be 18 core & 36 threads, which is gonna be amazing, I hope.

                LinusTechTips just put out a video this morning talking about Skylake/KabyLake X actually, and it's rather interesting.

      Also, be aware that running the 1080ti at full potential will require 16 pcie lanes, so do the math. 16 + 12 (for your m.2 drives) = 28 = No room for ANYTHING. So I highly doubt you'll be able to run the 7800x in the configuration you've specified. You'll have to go up to a 40 lane monster if you want to do that.

    I bought a pressure cooker/slow cooker today. Currently got a beef stew cooking away, which smells awesome. I also cooked Chilli's dinner in it (brown jasmine rice & veggies, which she gets roo mince mixed into) it did an awesome job on those, the rice didn't stick or burn, like what happened with the last rice cooker I had which wasn't cheap nor expensive, but an over all piece of shit.

      Turned out amazing, tender to the point of everything was falling apart, so satisfying. Doing apricot chicken tonight.

        Curries are awesome in the slow cooker too. So tender!

          Yeah gonna have to do a curry this week I think :P

    I made an apple and blueberry pie but the frozen pastry (because I'm not good enough to make my own) kinda broke so I came up with a plan B and sprinkled a crumb on top. Crumb: smashed up gingernut biscuits, cocoa powder and some butter.

    Other than obviously learning how to make pastry, what are other good twists on that as a base? Rhubarb comes to mind, and for some reason pear.

      Try crushed scotch finger biscuits and cinnamon for the crumble top. It's delicious and goes great with apple filling.

        Oh my god. I fucking *nearly* got scotch finger biscuits yesterday too.

        The chocolate coated ones would go down real well, probably. Christ they're good.

      My mum used to make one with biscuits as well. Can't recall the type she used to use, but any old crumbly one would do (Something like milk arrowroot perhaps). She mixed it with butter by just using her fingers to rub it together, and then just pressed it in to the base of the tin. (can't recall if she used egg as well or not though) It's not a dough, so can't roll it out or anything obviously, but just pressing it in to the tin in an even later all around made for a good base for many things. I know she used to use gingersnap cookies for one of the things she made too.

        That's basically the trick for all those no-bake cheesecakes, right? Blitz Something Biscuit with melted butter into fuck all, press it into a cake tin and then stick it in the fridge for 30-45-however long so you get the base. It's such a good kitchen hack.

    Just watched Pixels. Surprisingly not crap.

      Yeah I watched it last night too, and wasn't as bad as I recall most people making it out to be.

    OK, I know I'm gonna be laughed out of here for even thinking of asking this but here goes.

    While mainly for @welbot (thanks for the tips in the past), other feel free to pitch in.

    One thing my current Windows 10 box does not have is a soundcard. Basically, I'm just using the HDMI out on either my graphics card or my motherboard to a Yamaha amp.

    I've been pondering getting a PCIe Xonar or a STRIX SOAR (don't go near Creative anymore given how that handled their drivers from Windows XP to Vista - tale for another day).

    I don't often game but even if it's just for a CD I just like good clear sound.

    Which finally brings me to my question: are dedicated cards even worth their price anymore?

    If I can ensure everything is bit streamed, then I think the answer would be 'no' because the amp is doing the work and not the card.

    Also, if I go the card route I know it will mean needing to use an optical cable. Don't know why but HDMI sound cards have become very rare now.

    Anyhow, thanks in advance for any advice.

    And thanks again for your help in the past, WelBot. I can't remember if I said so but my previous PC woes were due to the CPU having gone bad. It has since been replaced and all is good now.

    My lesson? Never use an ASUS motherboard again.

      No onboard sound at all?! I don't think I've seen a board like that in a looooooooong time. Curious to know what model it is, cos I didn't even know they made boards without onboard sound any more. You sure it doesn't have one? Or is it more a case of it doesn't output sound via HDMI, and that's what you need/prefer for your amp?
      As for dedicated sound cards being worth their money, the short answer is no. In terms of your average computer user, onboard sound handles everything equally as well as a dedicated card, and the load on the cpu is so minimal that it doesn't impact performance.
      Some motherboards do come with X-Fi chips on board these days, and like their pci-e cousins, they do have some fancy features that are not found on the likes of Realtek chips, but they're not really going to improve performance or anything.
      The main reason people buy them, is if they need output ports that aren't present on the motherboard (usually optical, but a lot of motherboards come with that now too - depends how much you spend). Also if you're a true audiophile. The dedicated sound cards do tend to have a better sound to noise ratio (typically 124db) where as most on board chips are around 80db. Other than that, they tend to just have fancy stuff like voice changers and surround sound enhancement stuff, but it seems mostly aimed at headphone users.
      There is a sound card from Asus that does have HDMI ports, but I don't know where you'd be able to buy one. None of my local suppliers stock it, but if you can find one, that might be an option. It's called the Xonar HDAV.
      The other option, is something like the Xonar Essence STX. Apparently it has the capability to send spdif to the graphics card via hdmi, but I'll be damned if I can find ANY info or proof of anyone having done it from google searches and the likes. But I believe you may be able to get around it by way of an internal spdif header on the card (other models may have it too) which should in theory allow outputting of the sound from the sound card, via the hdmi port on the gpu. You'd have to check your graphics card though. If it has an internal spdif input header, connecting it should send the signal from the sound card to the gpu, then out the HDMI port.

      Glad to hear your previous issue is all good now too :)

        No onboard sound at all?! I don't think I've seen a board like that in a looooooooong time.

        Nah, sorry. It does have integrated. I didn't it needed to be said given they are common as air now.

        For your own reference though, the board in the machine is a Gigabyte GA-Z170X-Gaming 7.

        The board even has an optical port but I use my second graphics card to output the audio. I have a 1070 for graphics and a 960 for PhysX (unless I play The Witcher 3 in which case I swap them around, :-P).

          Just a thought, but have you tried using the onboard HDMI port to output sound? (Not sure if it's capable or not, but perhaps worth a try if you haven't,) Given that it's got a creative chip in it already, it's possible it might send the audio from that, out via the onboard HDMI port if they are both enabled. You should be able to enable the onboard graphics even though you have 2 GPU's installed. It didn't work on older boards, but should on new ones. Just make sure you then check that your PCI-E GPU is set as the primary display output in the BIOS.

            Might give the onboard a try via optical or HDMI. I think I already tried but found that no audio went over the onboard HDMI.

            Won't be for a while though; I'm a bit crook at the moment to where even typing these posts is a pain (keep pressing the wrong keys).

              it's possible the intel one won't output sound, but I've never tried before. If you do have optical, it's generally a better option from my experience. I used to have a Pioneer sound system, and I used to have my pc plugged in via hdmi, but it always had trouble with certain aspects of dolbyDTS for some reason. When I used the optical for audio, and HDMI for video, it was absolutely flawless. Single cable solutions are nice, but it sounds like you're using a dual cable setup already, so if anything, it'll free up your 960 to concentrate on physx if you're gaming. I know that the creative drivers can be a bit shit at times, but it should provide better sound quality than your gpu could ever hope to achieve.

              I just did a quick google on it actually, and it does appear as though the intel onboard hdmi's are capable of outputting sound. Should show up as a (possibly hidden to start) High definition digital audio device in the Playback devices once enabled in the BIOS.
              Having said that, if you do have the option of using optical, I'd probably go with that, as the latency will be lower.

                Thanks, WelBot. I did some research of my own and I found a few things as well. In terms of output, the SPDIF (TOSLINK) port on the board can at most output 2 channel 96kHz, 24-bit sound.

                My HDMI link though, can go 5.1 (6 channels effectively) up to 192 kHz, 24-bit.

                From what I can tell, my TOSLINK optical maybe able to go high, but that is only if the application uses DD/DTS encoding and leaves the work to my amp. Everything else seems to be PCM and thus is limited to the two channels of PCM the port can handle.

                So I might play around later, but I'm starting to think given how infrequent I use my Windows PC is, I should use the "if it ain't broke" rule.

                I also looked further at the cards I was considering and soon found some surprises. The main one is the front header doesn't seem to be offered on the more expensive models which is odd. I may use my machine infrequently but when I do and I need to use a headset, I prefer to be able to use the jacks on the front and not have to drag the machine forward to reach the back.

                The other oddity that has completely put me of is some of the stronger cards that can do 7.1 and support the HD codecs require an additional power source.

                Seriously, a sound card that needs a power source. It's clear I'm really out of the game here as I never saw this happen.

                So it looks like both you and @zombiejesus are right; it's not worth the effort any more. But down the track I might try the optical connection anyway to see if there is a difference or not. Like you (WelBot), I like to avoid clutter but the fact I can't turn video passthru off on the Yamaha amp gives me the annoyance of there being another "monitor" I cannot see.

                  Yes you are correct in that the spdif only sends 2 channels, but if the media doesn't have DD/DTS info encoded, sending it via HDMI won't change anything. PCM offloads the content to the Yamaha for processing, and it set in the right mode (depending what content you're playing back) it should process it, and decode it to 5.1.
                  If the content doesn't have a dolby encoded stream, it should still be able to apply the surround "fields" to spread it around the 5.1 array, but it will be "faked" as it were... If I set my pc to output via optical, and play some music, my speakers automatically apply the dolby PLII Music mode, which makes it 5.1, and even though it's technically faked, it sounds WAAAAAY better than standard playback.
                  If you're using it primarily for games, HDMI may be your best option, as it will take the 5.1 signal from your PC and playback as is, but for most other things, I'd send it through the spdif for better results.
                  I'm lucky with my pc, in that I have the logitech z-5500's which have both analoge 5.1 connections from pc, and also coax/optical inputs as well, so I just switch inputs depending on what I'm doing, and I get appropriate sound.


                  I have the logitech z-5500's

                  LogiTech? You unwashed peasant! Real men and real women use Yamaha's temporarily and then as a right of passage move on to Onkyo!


                  Jokes aside, my PC basically got the Yamaha as I bought an Onkyo later on at a JB HiFi sale. The Yamaha was still a good amp and I have both a Windows and Mac machine in my office so I use that as my sound switcher.

                  It certainly made me turn the volume down when I tried to play Bendy and the Ink Machine. Even though it is in a 3.1 configuration, the critter somehow had me thinking Bendy was right behind me in the real world and I kept looking!

                  hahaha The z5500's are actually the best surround speakers you can get for pc's I think. Most "real" surround systems don't have 6 analogue 3.5ml input jacks. That's the only way you can get REAL surround from games without a dolby encoded stream.
                  My pioneer todoroki system I had in my lounge room for the tv/media pc was the ants pants as far as sound systems go (at the time anyway.) I didn't use that pc for gaming though. I did have an xbox 360 and ps3 hooked up to it, but that's a whole different kettle of fish.
                  When it comes to PC sound for games, analogue is the way to go for true surround. I only have a monitor with 2 speakers plugged in to my hdmi ports atm. With the hdmi output that runs to your Yamaha, if you look at the properties of it in Playback devices, In the "Jack information" section, what does it say? Curious to know what it reports. Also, if you hit configure, I'm guessing you get options for 5.1 speakers in the next screen?

                  @welbot: The configuration options do let me pick 5.1, but the jack information only shows L/R.

                  I just connected an optical cable for kicks and to answer your questions.

                  In the Supported Formats tab, I can test and hear DTS and Dolby (though, who wants the latter? DTS FTW!) and my amp automatically decodes them (even indicates their encoding type on the display on the amp itself.

                  It also seems to work with 192 kHz output which is odd.

                  Anyhow, I might revisit this down the track. But to close, this is one of the cards I'm thinking of playing with down the track (the others I just ditched as they demanded the power and price of a graphics card without actually being one).


                  But thanks to you and @zombiejesus for the advice. Just shows how dated my PC hardware knowledge is. My last two sound cards were an Asus Xonar DG and an Audigy 2 Value.

                  My Audigy was (and still is) a good card; I just couldn't use it because Creative kept dicking around with their drivers making them less capable in Vista/7 then in XP and even threatened litigation against a driver modder who restored the functionality to beyond what could be recovered via Creative's ALchemy drivers.

                  Yeah the old creative drivers for audigy cards were a bit crap. I haven't had any experience with the newer cards, but I haven't heard anywhere near the amount of complaints about them either.
                  As for the 192KHz thing, it's a bit of a weird situation. Your Yamaha system can only apply sound field programs to input sources with a sampling rate of 96KHz or less. In fact, most home theatre systems are the same. Anything above that sample rate, will be played by the sound system in whatever format it arrives. So if you send a stereo signal at 96, it can fake the 5.1, but if you send it at 196, it will only play stereo. If you send a 5.1 DTS at 196 though, it should work just fine though, as it's not "adding" anything, it's simply decoding what's already there. I assume yours works the same as my z5500's, in that I can send it a 196KHz sample, and even if it's just a stereo music sample, it will end up playing on the speakers as Dolby PL II Music, because the sound card itself supports it, and automatically sends that data along with it, so you'll probably find that with the Yamaha set to Straight mode, or Sur-Decode mode, it will work perfectly well with whatever sample rate, but if you set it to use the Yamaha Music or Movie mode, you won't hear anything unless it's receiving a 96KHz sample.
                  As for your thinking about the XONAR DSX, I honestly can't see the point unless you experience problems with the onboard card. The creative soundcore 3d is the chip that drives the top end soundblaster ZXR and Recon3d cards, and them and the XONAR DSX essentially have the same specs, except that the one on your motherboard also supports THX Studio Pro, so you'll likely get a much better experience out of it in certain situations, than if you were using the XONAR. If the source material doesn't contain any THX stuff, then the two cards would likely sound exactly the same. Plus I believe you can even swap the OAMP on your motherboard if you want, and the XONAR doesn't allow you to do that either.

                  My bad.. just checked, and the Xonar does have swappable oamps as well, but still... best to save your money, cos it's pretty much exactly the same thing as what you have already (minus the THX though)

          Really curious as to why you would swap them around for The Witcher 3? Or was that a joke?

            Sorry, I was being cheeky. The Witcher 3 came under fire at one point because of its HairWorks implementation killing the framerates when enabled so I was poking fun at that.

            At the same time though, it would not surprise me if this gag actually helped.

              Ahah! I thought that might be something like that. Totally agree, i had a GTX 980 when Witcher 3 came out, i had to turn off HairWorks just to get a stable 60fps. I play at 2560x1440 resolution though.

      The best quality audio involves keeping the signal digital until the last reasonable moment. PCs are electronic noise factories and any internal solution is going to introduce at least some noise or signal degradation. External is usually best.

      Is your amp a DAC as well? If so, you should just plug it directly in to your PC, either USB or optical. If not, grab a cheap but decent DAC to sit between your PC and amp. Whether there's a notable difference for you is down to how good your hearing is and how sensitive you are to noise, but this method will generally get you the best sound (unless the DAC is garbage).

      These days I wouldn't recommend anyone use a discrete soundcard. There's been basically no innovation in the area in years and most of the features they offer aren't really worth the price. With an external DAC, you can at least reuse it with other digital audio sources like your TV or Blu Ray player rather than being locked up in your PC.

        I think my Amp should have a DAC. The amp is a Yamaha HTR-2064 so it's a real discrete amp and not an integrated solution where the speakers are basically wired to the system.

          I agree with zombie. Having looked at the manual for your system, using the optical to feed audio direct to the Yamaha will be the best option. The Yamaha will take the signal from the Creative chip, process any dolby/DTS/whatever info, and convert/playback. Using the optical cable to send it to the Audio 1 input on the Yamaha, then setting the Creative spdif as the output from your pc, will send the signal to be processed, and I think set the Yamaha to Sur-Decode mode? Might need to play with it and see. If you set the Yamaha to Straight mode, I think it'll take the signal from the pc, and play back as is, so in that case, your pc would be doing the work, and you'd have to make sure DTS and 5.1 are enabled in the Supported Formats and Advanced tabs of the Playback devices. (I'd advise to make sure all the modes you want to be able to use are at least checked on the Supported formats tab anyway (they probably are by default) but I'd leave the Advanced tab alone unless you have problems)

    hey guys, I made a video of drawing stuff.

      Very cool, don't suppose you captured the whole process? There's something oddly calming about procedural videos like this. I watch quite a few PC-building videos and car building videos for the same reason.

        That's all i did that day. This art is rather intensive and as I'd been sick, I can only do a little bit at a time

          Fair enough, no stress, I'll watch more if more goes up :D

            The video editing software only allows for 5 minutes as well, so there's that.
            It actually is a pain to set up and then edit and most people don't care, but if you're going to watch, then it's worth it

    So tired, i need some sleep.
    Had a bad night Friday, just over active brain. Then up a bit later than normal saturday. Then last night Tiglet was in a panic so spent a bit of time in my bed so didn't get good sleep until after 3am

    @welbot and @zombiejesus.

    Sorry about starting a new thread, guys, but the column width was getting annoying.

    Anyhow, I think I finally unravels the problems I was having. I'll try and start from scratch (given how I kept missing details the last time).

    At it's simplest, I have Windows 10 (Creator's Update) machine connected to a Yamaha HTR-2064 amp. As I have been playing around, it is connected both via SPDIF and HDMI.

    The SPDIF is to the Creative Core3D chip (which doesn't have THX Studio as Welbot though) and the HDMI is connected to my GTX 960 (dedicated PhysX card).

    Now here was one of the craziest issues; then I tried to play games in surround via HDMI, I ether only got stereo (Doom 2016) or no sound at all outside the animations (BioShock Remastered).

    When I used the SPDIF (optical), I got sound in both cases but only in stereo.

    Further reading indicates I need to have either Dolby Digital: Live or DTS: Connect which will encode on the fly to the limitations of SPDIF and my amp (like it would a DVD) will detect and decode the audio as required.

    However, it looks as though that software was never packed in with my motherboard and (most likely due to licensing issues) is no longer offered by Creative as it appears to have been a paid extra at some point (I bet that worked out sooooooo well!).

    But as you two can see, I should have been fine with HDMI. On a whim I simply decided to disable the integrated Core3D chip in the BIOS and see what happens.

    Surprise, surprise, BioShock not only had audio but was finally in surround (indicated to me by the fact the centre speaker was finally getting used).

    After I re-enabled the Core3D chip in the BIOS, I went into the Windows Sound settings and simply disabled the Speakers playback device.

    BioShock showed no ill-effects.

    From what I can tell, for some reason that chip will only use its speakers or pipe a stereo down mix to its SPDIF port.

    I'm tempted to try this card ( anyhow so that I have one working sound device instead of two bickering devices but the problem I found via research remains. I may have just one consistent device but I will not have surround in games as (while the card supports it) I will not have the DD:L nor DTS:C software to make surround via SPDIF possible.

    I've said this before but I'll say it again. Thanks to both of your for the other tips. Not to get too far off topic but is it any wonder people like me become console gamers? Sound for a game shouldn't take more time to set up than a Roland device back in the bleeding day!

      Sorry, guys one last detail.

      I learned that the chip was just down mixing to 2 channels by actually holding the device to my ear and clicking the speakers in the Recon3Di panel (accessed from the system tray).

      When I clicked the centre speaker, I did not hear anything from the speaker; instead it came out both the Left and Right speakers.

      And the sub didn't play anything.

      Very funny configuration for a cheap; surround only from the individual connectors but not the SPDIF. Given that just about everything Creative does is now emulated in software you'd think they'd at least just cheap out and downmix to DPLII.

        First off, the THX thing... the studio software might not be included, but the chip you have is identical to the one used in those models, so it does actually support it, just appears it doesn't come with the software included. That's a shame, but still, there are other ways, but that's something for another day :)
        When you say about the PLII not working, do you have your Yamaha in Sur-Decode mode at the time?

          When you say about the PLII not working

          As in Dolby Pro Logic II? Sorry about my wording, I wasn't expecting a DPLII signal I was just wondering why Creative didn't just matrix encode their audio to DPL|| if they were just gonna funnel it over SPDIF.

          I did try the Sur. Decode button on BioShock. Basically it lets me pick between various DPLII settings.

          Admittedly, I only tries a couple of them (the main one being Game) but all it does was make the game mono with all sound coming out of the centre speaker and nothing from the others.

          So I think the Core3D chip is just down mixing to stereo but as there is no matrix encoding the is either no change or a worse audio experience when attempts are made to separate the tracks back out again.

        Mmmm ok.... just found a little more info through a rather deep search, and it appears that although your motherboard does in fact use the same chip as the previously mentioned sound cards (exact same architecture) it appears that gigabyte have gimped the DDL/DTS Connect features. My guess is to keep costs down, they agreed to cut those features out. Considering it's fully plugged as a "Gaming" board, it's pretty shit of them to cut out the one feature of the sound that would actually enhance your gaming audio experience.

        So... knowing that, you will be better off getting a XONAR that supports DDL/DTS Connect.

          I'm honestly thinking even if there is no DD:L nor DTS:C, at least I'll have a system that (in my view) is stable.

          It just doesn't sit well with me how having the Speakers playback device on the Core3D chip actually prevents some games from effectively using HDMI (if they get to at all) for their surround outputs.

          But if the software is there though, I'm gonna enjoy me some games with god ol' DTS.


          Just a side note, I do admit that I have a bias to DTS. I like how they think about backwards compatibility while Dolby is more ivory tower with their solutions these days.

            :) DTS is definitely the best you can use. Next to a direct analogue connection (like a separate connector for front, side, rear, center, sub) it's the only real true surround. All the other modes are faked in some way or another. Some of them do it very well mind you, but DTS is definitely the truest of the digital surround modes. I always opt for DTS where possible in my movies. Nothing else quite compares.

        I don't know if you've checked this already, but most SPDIF interfaces (which HDMI generally shows up as) have a 'supported formats' tab in the interface properties. For an examples, my little babby headphone DAC (which desperately needs an upgrade) lists DTS Audio, Dolby Digital and Microsoft WMA Pro Audio encoding formats, and a variety of sample rates, and asks which of those the receiver supports. Usually getting the two to work properly is a matter of plugging it in and testing formats (there should be a test button on that panel) until you find the best quality one that works.

          Sorry, I should have covered that. I did test them on the optical and it worked. The test command wasn't there for the HDMI but it did list that Dolby and DTS were supported.

          I also know the amp supports them anyhow because when it was originally connected to my PS4 I used bitstreaming. when I had a DD or DTS DVD, the amp indicated as such and was more than happy to work with them.

          But like I said in my earlier post, I found that the main interference for the HDMI was actually the Core3D chip. Disabling the Speakers playback device allowed games to make proper use of the connection (tested in Doom and all 3.1 speakers worked and the sound was a lot better).

            Yeah sorry, I lost track of where things were at.

            I found that the main interference for the HDMI was actually the Core3D chip

            This is one of the reasons I abandoned internal sound. I find it just gets in the way more than it helps these days. I used to love Creative but over the years I started to just get more and more problems, and eventually decided to just use external solutions. Now I regard discrete PC sound (the Xonar is about the only exception because it has a decent headphone DAC in it) about the same as I regard "gaming headsets", as gimmicks intended to appeal to an audience that doesn't know they can get better quality for cheaper without the "gaming" label.

            Anyway, rant aside, it sounds like you've got things working now?

              Yeah, I've tamed the bickering children for now. But I am going to get that Xonar just to prevent any further problems from happening.

              As for "gaming" headsets, yeah I never could understand how a headset could be 5.1.

              The only "gaming" headset I have is the Sennheiser Game One. High price tag because of the name but those two speakers put a lot of 5.1 systems to shame in terms of clarity.

              And oh god they are so comfortable!

              While meant for "gaming" if one has the cash and does a lot of conference calls, they are worth the price.

                I just use standalone headphones and a separate mic. I just had a set of Beyerdynamic T5p gen 2's delivered a few weeks ago, had the gen 1 before that but this one has detachable cables which I desperately need because it's the first component to go. Which is why it's funny that I have a cheap little $100 headphone DAC/amp, driving a $1100 set of headphones.

      @welbot and @zombiejesus.

      Hey, guy. Last I'm posting about this, I swear.

      Just got the Xonar from the good people at Scorptec and installed said card. The DTS:C works like a charm and so far no issues.

      It still has that misleading trick as the Core3D where I have output to the "Speakers" but I'm getting DTS bitstream now. Especially BioShock - Remastered. Rapture has never sounded better, :-D

      Thanks again for the advice from both of you.

        Yeah I don't know why it's done that way. Seems a bit odd and confusing. I have a feeling it's so they can take control of everything within their apps. I'm used to outputting my sound for DTS via spdif (so in windows sound I set it to digital out) but I noted with Asus and Creative, you have to set to speakers, and yet it will still send the signal via digital out (i think as dictated in the cards control panel software.) My realtek control panel seems to be linked to windows config, which makes sense to me. If I switch outputs in windows, it also switches in the realtek panel, and then disables/greys out the appropriate section.
        Glad it's working though :)
        I did a bit of a check to see if I had DTS live the other day, but I don't think I do. Or I need to update my driver. I have DTS Interactive/Neo, which is often mentioned alongside Live, but I don't really know what it does. Didn't bother looking yet. Surprising thing is, I can enable it in both analogue and digital outputs, but I get no indication on my control pod as to whether it's using DTS when on the analogue setting. Probably going to play with it more over the weekend.

          Oops. Turns out I meant Dolby Digital Live ;)
          Quick google of that vs DTS Interactive (which my card does) seems to indicate that they do the same thing, except that DTS is obviously DTS, not just Dolby, so I'm gonna have to give it a try with some games one day soon! Should be interesting! Never bothered playing with stuff like that with anything besides music before. Hopefully should yield some great results!

          I think DTS:C is more the umbrella term for all the technologies involved. Interactive and Neo I think are components for a given task.

          Regardless how though, I think the chip is capable of the task it has to be made accessible via its driver.

          Creative seem to have had a falling out of some sorts as DD:L and DTS:C are no longer offered and as my board was made after the April 2016 date of the redaction they took that capability out. I don't think it's Gigabyte's fault.

          But I agree with you, a simple thing such as sound should not take as much (if not, more) effort than a sound setup from back in the day.

          The drivers should open the full capabilities if the hardware. What Creative have done (both now and in the past) is the same as making a printer and requiring an extra driver to use the colour tanks which can be withdraw on Creative's whim thus rendering the device monochrome.

            Your creative chip is a bit different though. They actually killed the DD:L functionality on that motherboard, but it appears that in the pci-e card itself, it's working fine.
            DTS Neo and Interactive are different things though, but chips that can do one, can do the other. The Neo stuff is for music and simple stereo stuff, and uses cues in the audio to generate extra surround fields, where as Interactive can apparently take the 5.1 analogue channels from your PC, and convert them on the fly to full digital DTS for your sound system. Much like DD:L, except that from what I understand, DD:L does it in a fashion similar to Neo, in that it gets its info from a stereo stream rather than all 5.1 channels.

    Urgh, received a ticket at work for someone reporting spam emails. Checked logs and stuff, then realise they're in Grand Cayman and are 15 hours behind me, so trying to get this bloke on the phone is near impossible, and he seemingly has great difficult following instructions with pictures included...

    Went to Broadway for a nice fried rice for lunch, and the restaurant was showing Hero on a projector. Now I want to go and watch the full movie again... I'd forgotten how beautiful Zhang Yimou's movies can be....

      They truly are stunning. I have never seen one at a cinema which is something I would like to do, not that I can get to the cinema these days

    Bungie's added OAuth2 support to their Destiny API! No more full-DOM parsing to find the code I need to authenticate! *flails arms excitedly*

      Well, that made things easier than expected - no futzing around with cookies, no parsing HTML to find hidden form values, just straight HTTP headers. :*D

      I still need to translate my old PSN auth Javascript to Go so I can perform the initial authentication to get the first access/refresh tokens... which I can do manually if it's just for my use... but I want to have it all self-contained, so I should really get that out of the way before I start fleshing out the API usage... *sigh*

    Watched the new Red Dog movie "Red Dog: True Blue" last night, wasn't what I was expecting. Still it was a really good movie. No deaths in this one so that was fine, still a bit sad though cause of how it ended. Then again i've just got a soft spot for Kelpies.

    My main two gripes about it though, I wished there was less people and more dog though. It focussed more on the young kid who was his master, which I get because the story was told from his point of view, but it made it seem like Red dog or in this case his name was Blue, was just a secondary character and they made it a little more about the people, which took some of the appeal of the movie away for me.

    The second is, the prequel story appears to be entirely fiction. There's no record of Red Dog or his story before 1971 and the movie is set in 1969, so instead of it being based on a true story like the first movie, this one is purely made up so there could be another Red Dog movie it seems :/

    What I did like though, is how they portrayed the personality of the dog, he had a lot of classic Kelpie/working dogs traits, which just seemed very natural how they appeared on camera, like being stubborn sometimes when commanded to do something basic, and then running off and being rambunctious and doing something really naughty like tearing clothes off the clothes line and being a down right derp with them. To me that's a Kelpie through & through, they're such lovable & personable dogs.

    Overall i'd still give the movie a solid 4 out 5 and highly recommend it. Just I can't hold it to the same high standard as the original.

    Next week T2 Trainspotting is out on blu-ray, can't wait to see that since I never got enough time off work to go see it.

      I hadn't even realised it was out. Good to hear it is good but don't think a sequel could ever be as good as the original.

        Yeah it came out yesterday apparently, I had to pop in to JB to pick up some CD's a mate put aside for me and saw it was there so I had to grab it haha.

        But yeah, the first will always be an iconic Aussie movie imo.

    DiRT 4 is out on PC today, and I have to wait 5 hours before I can get home to play it...

      Boourns!! I'm not sure if I wanna get it or not. I have DiRT Rally, so seems a little pointless.

    Do Android tablets seriously need to use a third party app or a SD card to transfer files to them from a PC? That's insane.

      A USB cable is usually sufficient? Otherwise, I find Pushbullet's Portal to be amazing for wireless transfer... just a pity it's only PC to tablet, not two-way. I'm more baffled that Android still doesn't have a built-in file-management facility.

      This is why I like my windows phone. The PC and phone are synced up

      No. Some phones do have stupid apps they try to make you use, but most allow you to go to Settings > General > PC Connection, and change the connection type to MTP. This will allow the phone/tablet to show up as a USB drive in your pc.

      Thanks. I ended up having to use Bluetooth. It took forever though. Very frustrating because like Scree says my old Windows Phone was hassle free. I knew my Android phone sucked at it, but for some reason I expected a table to be better. Just pluck the files up over the WiFi network or something.

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