Socialist Twitch Streamer Says He's Changing Minds

Leftist Twitch streamer Hasan Piker guested on the popular leftist podcast Chapo Trap House, and told the Chapo hosts that he’s breaking through to the insular, potentially reactionary teens on Twitch.

Hasan Piker, who works for the left-wing news YouTube news show The Young Turks, is a pretty popular Twitch streamer with over 90,000 followers. He’s also an outspoken socialist, and his audience crosses over with the incredibly popular Chapo Trap House podcast. Last night’s episode had Piker explaining the streaming platform to co-hosts Will Menaker, Amber Frost, and Matt Christman.

Chapo co-host Felix Biederman, who wasn’t present for this episode, is an avid gamer and streams on Twitch himself. But Piker said that Biederman doesn’t really participate in the culture of Twitch, jokingly calling Biederman and his friends the “Boomers of Twitch.”

For Piker, participating in that culture and talking to young people is part of the reason why he came to the platform. He had been on Facebook duty at The Young Turks, and found that experience to be miserable.

“Everyone that watches Facebook news now is like 68 years old. So it’s awful. I mean, they vote, but whatever, they don’t care for my leftist takes regardless,” Piker told the hosts of Chapo. “So I got on Twitch because I knew that this is a young audience, mostly male, probably prone to reactionary politics, but their political idols are a bunch of idiots. I mean, they don’t know anything. All the takes that they’ve heard about like leftist politics have been just strawmen from the likes of Steven Crowder and Ben Shapiro.”

Piker said that once people see him, they have to reconsider their preconceived notion of leftists, which he characterises as mostly gleaned from “SJW cringe compilations.” Although Piker said that his audience responds to his argument when they’re presented through memes, he did also say that simply by not living up to a leftist stereotype, he’s swaying people away from the right.

“The thing is that they don’t have a lot of access to proper leftist representation. When someone comes in and is like, ‘Oh no, both parties are pretty bad and here’s what we should be doing, like the rest of the world, and this is why it’s wrong,’” Piker said. “They’re like, ‘oh, this is a little different from what I expected the left to be like.”

Piker also talked to the Chapo hosts about his audience of young queer people, and they round out the episode by clowning on a frequent subject of the podcast’s ire, former Trump cabinet member Sebastian Gorka. The whole episode is worth a listen, but it’s particularly amusing to hear Menaker, Frost, and Christman struggle to understand Twitch.

At the very least, Menaker said that Biederman finally got him invested in Metal Gear Solid, just by virtue of talking about it constantly.


Comments

    Come on, you know you can't say the S word without things depending in to Cold War rhetoric!

    On a more serious note, it's good to see folks talking about such matters in a less extreme manner.
    There's far too much missinformation and money floating around those ends at the moment.
    Politics still sucks the big one though.

    Chapo trap house reddit has been associated with several doxxing cases and got people bashed. Cool, good work gita!

    We wouldnt happen to be talking about the same Hassan who went and decided to target Liana K are we?

      Target? more like called out for one of the shittiest takes I've heard. Nice try though.

    Calling TYT news is a stretch, there as bad as Alex Jones opposite sides of the same coin, both are hypocritical they overreact and exaggerate things to epic proportions.

    Instead of actually trying to talk and engage with people of different ideas or opinions they both (TYT and Jones) live in there echo chambers, shouting down anyone they don't like.

      while young turks can be annoy but when have they ever claimed things like Robert Mueller 'likes' children and is a devil, or give airtime to something like pizzagate, that lead to shots being fired in a child friendly pizza place or when has Young Turks ever claimed a REAL shooting like Sandy Hook was a false flag, causing even more anguish to grieving parents... hmm, hmmm?

      there is a universe of difference between the two, while the Turks can get tiresome sometimes, they are not even in the same realm of vileness as Alex Jones.

        The young turks have previously endorsed/ Supported Anti-Vacc views.

        That puts them in the same book as Alex Jones.

        Although these days no one actually takes Alex Jones seriously. He is more of a meme nowadays.

        To back up my point. Here are two videos well worth watching about the young turks.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PDisLoTKYY
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljtn9mHQW14

          It is hard to sit through a video titled "The Young Turks are Morons of the Highest Calibre", if you cant make your point without resorting to a dire click bait, do you really have a point to make?! Or is it just about the creater thinking of his own interests?!

          Its a shame, I get where he is coming from, and he makes some good points but he himself is being just as over sensitive to some of the things the Turks are saying. How he was interpreting what they were saying, wasnt what they were saying.

          See thats the about youtube it is full of people tearing others apart word for word in a seeming never ending cycle of 'I am much more of a critical thinker than X'. Because being able to choose a video ON ANY SUBJECT and tear it about is not difficult and it can be done for anything, at anytime. You can choose the most harmless piece on youtube still give it the same sort of treatment.

          Nothing in the two links is anywhere near on the same scale at Sandy Hook and pizzagate (both the real shooting, for the whole destroying a real persons livelihood to sell an idea that Hillary is part of a child ring) , hell it is not even Gay Frogs, Weather Weapons, the great charity work of Bill Gates is all but a front for Eugenics, of course then his Anti-Vax stance (I cant find any proof of a strong anti-vax stance on the Turks??))

          I am no real fan of the Turks. But come on nothing they do is in the shame realm of Info Wars. You know who took Jones seriously was the person who shot up a family restaurant. To say no one takes him seriously is like saying no one takes Trump seriously.

          Sadly. We all know that is simply not true.

            You know who took Jones seriously was the person who shot up a family restaurant

            pretty sure the guy who shot up New Zealand was subbed to TYT i don't think it's fair to blame Alex for the actions of a lunatic if you don't hold the same standard for TYT.

            While your point about the youtube landscape and clickbait is completely sound the problem is you pretty much have to go clickbaity with the tittle unless you have finished growing your audience. Sad but true fact that on youtube you need the tittle to attract that click and "a fair and detailed look at TYT" probably aint getting clicks from anyone who isn't already a sub.

            TYT and Alex Jones are worlds apart but that's only with volume and the fact that TYT rarely get any blame for the shit they help to incite like Antifa violence for example. Seems like about 80% of the media won't even acknowledge that left wing violence is happening and they definitely won't admit they are helping to proliferate it.

              pretty sure the guy who shot up New Zealand was subbed to TYT

              Source? Because that is thoroughly laughable. They name dropped Pew, but that doesnt mean he was involved. Jones sells the idea that Hillary is involve with a child ring out of a Pizza Shop. That in itself is repulsive. Sure Jones didnt tell the shooter to do it. But he created this fantasy out of thin air, gave it a voice... there is a reason why most reasonable human beings dont make up such things at this, especially when kids are involved, so while he may not of told the person to do it, there were ALWAYS go to be some form of repercussions to that business owner (remember the shooting wasnt the only thing he had to deal with)

              Antifa is the boogy man of the right. Sure violence is never the answer but their name is just thrown around so much it is actually laughable. When did we get to such a stage in the world where we defend the vileness of loser White Whatevers groups, just be on the other side there are some who do bad? Hilariously without those White Whatevers, would Antifa even exist? (that doesnt mean I justify them). Where as the Whatever are actually trying to do bad to minorities, are Antifa merely a reaction to that? But on their own Antifa tend not to bang on about genocide and ethic cleansing, they bang on about standing up to those who hate. One side side hates who someone is born AS, the other side stands up to those who BELIEFS they dont agree with.

              A person CANT change their DNA (so do they deservedto be hated for it) but on the other side people CAN change their ignorance.

                Ask victims of antifa if it's just a boogeyman.

                  Oh those poor little disenfranchised white man sprouting flawed 80 year racist rubbish.

                  Sure along the way they would have harmed some innocent people, but that is the nature of thugs, it doesn’t matter what side thugs are on there will always be some who aren’t their for the beliefs but just there as a rent-a-thug, where as white whatever sole purpose is to hurt those they see as less human or pure as them.

                  @blakeavon
                  I'm talking about even moderate people being caught up by extremist views. Not some evil caricature you're making up.
                  Pretty gross you'd victim blame anyone for being bashed regardless of their views. I don't care if they are alt right white man with old views or a super left young person. Really sucky view you have there. Antifa exists and they are horrible.

                  Oh thank god, finally! See I've been trying to keep a tally of fatal victims of white supremacists against victims of antifa/BLM/etc, but I have not been able to get any data on the latter (there's plenty, easily available for the former) and whenever I see somebody talking about "victims of antifa", somehow, they never reply when I ask them to give me a list.

                  But you sound straight out authoritative, so I trust you already have compiled a neat list backed with fully evidenced research. I won't ask you to share the whole paper, I only need the number. So can you tell me how many /casualties/ can be attributed to antifa in the last 5 years?

                  @pylgrim even 1 is too many, from any hate group. But hey, you want to play that game. Give me a number for how many Muslims have been killed in Islamophobic attacks vs number of Christians killed in anti-Christian attacks. From around the world, not America. you might be surprised ;-)

                  Doesn't matter how many victims there are.

                  @nuffman

                  I agree that even 1 is bad. (not that I have managed to find even 1, mind you!) So what about dozens? Because that's the white supremacists tally in the last few years. So since you seem genuinely concerned, you tell me: in the fight against organised ideological hatred, do you really believe that we must divide our attention between an ideological activist group that has yet to claim a single casualty (as far as I've been able to find) and one that has basically claimed a life every few weeks?

                  If "even 1 is bad", why not push with all our weight against the group demonstrated to be more likely to claim a life /as we speak/? Once that threat is removed, we can take another look and address the second (then first) more pressing group.

                  @blakeavon @pylgrim @nuffman @bondles i think that's everyone involved.

                  Antifa is only a response to the racist right wing on paper, the SPLC estimates that there are approximately 10-12k white whatevers in the US total. Yet the media have both Antifa and you (blake and pylgrim) thinking that they are everywhere , Antifa has beaten people form all over the political spectrum i haven't yet found them beating up each other but just give it some time.

                  Political violence is never okay no matter who is doing it so stop defending it when your side does it. Pylgrim tries to shift the goal posts to only include deaths this is wrong stop it. The women who was murdered in charlottesville might still be alive had Antifa not started the damn riot by attacking the stupid racists. I am only in my 30's but until just recently the appropriate response to racists having a rally was to laugh at them and shame them for the abhorrent views they hold not start a battle.

                  Antifa is the military wing of the leftist media the reason they call everyone nazi or fascist with no evidence or even my favorite one alt-right adjacent is to paint a target on their back, like some kind of laser guided missile the far leftists and Antifa descend on these people and given enough opportunity they attack. Pylgrim you may well think right now that the death toll is a real zinger (yeh this will shut him up hehehe) it will not age well, unless Antifa is stopped that argument is going to spin on it's head within the next few years and your going to feel sick that you spent time defending these people when you know that violence has no place in political discourse no matter what side it is on.

                  Antifa being on the left and also a disgusting pack of political terrorists reflects on nobody but them, they are not your tribe the same as me being on the right does not align me with racists, i will never agree with them. I will always advocate that both these groups be allowed to speak and when the racist right wingers speak i will join with you on the left to oppose them, how about you reciprocate and join with those on the right denouncing Antifa's violence at the very least. (it would be nice if we could also get some support combating the regressive views they hold too but that is probably a step to far)

                Lol. You really just victim blamed... Oh my.

                The only difference between ANTIFA and the white "whatever's" is that you agree with one and not the other.

                  Yeah no. One side is calling for the eradication of entire races and think they only are at the top of the food chain of the human race. One is just a group of thugs who remember we fought a huge war to purge THE BELIEFS of those people, who were responsible for the deaths what 17 odd millions of INNOCENTS LIVES.

                  See the flaw in your argument is that you presume I like ANTIFA, I dont, they are thugs but compare to ignorant racist, bigots, and morons of all the White Whatevers (especially the ones with strong NAZI ties), they are still better.

                  There is no positives racists bring to the world.

                  @blakeavon

                  No, they are no better. And if you think ANTIFA actually front up to white whatever's, you are sorely mistaken. They try to intimidate and bully, mostly bystanders. Why do you think they cover they're faces? So they can't be identified and brought up on assaulting randoms for beers and skittles.

                  They're thugs, no better than other thugs. The only difference is you agree with them.

                  There is no such thing as the "lesser evil". It's just evil. That's like saying that General Mao is an ok bloke compared to Hitler, because he wasn't a racist or whatever ????.

                  I mean ... yes? I agree with the people who are fighting against white nationalism, and not with the people who are fighting for white nationalism? I miss the days when this was an uncontroversial position.

                  @bondles it's not controversial at all. Thugs are thugs. The fact that you support a group that is known to bully, harass and assault people that don't even associate or belong to white supremacist groups is quite troubling.

                  Yours, and the other drongo's reasoning and justification for supporting such thugs is no different from people who support violent white supremacist groups. It's laughable.

                  Lol "white whatever". A little old trick of trying to minimize the bad reputation of a group by disaffecting ignorance or lack of caring. It's white /supremacists/. You know, people who literally assault and murder people based on fallacious ethno-nationalistic ideologies.

                  @pylgrim if you actually read anything, you'll see that I was quoting your buddy up there. Hence the quotation marks in my original reply to him. But you know, wouldn't expect anything less from your sort. Distorting facts to suit your narrative ;-)

                  You tried though, so kudos

                well some moderator nuked my reply so it will be a while before i get back to you

          you know when you make a claim about an organization saying they promote anti vax stuff, and then proceed to, as evidence, use videos by a biased third party trying to clutch at straws for any even remotely good reason.

            use videos by a biased third party trying to clutch at straws for any even remotely good reason.

            did you even watch the videos i linked? The ones clutching at straws are TYT. As demonstrated in the videos.

            The videos provided documented evidence to back up the claims. TYT picks and chooses whatever suits their loony views.

            Whats next? You gonna claim Myles Power is a paid by monsato to indoctrinate people?

        Alex Jones is a nutcase, conspiracy theories aside which have zero merit what so ever they are the same, by Alex Jones I also mean info wars as a whole just couldn't remember the name of his "news" website, people associated with him like Kaitlin Bennet who's an absolute cow when someone disagrees with her and is quite possibly the worst interviewer I've ever seen.

        TYT Have supported or at least praised ANTIFA and have also condoned the whole "punch a Nazi" crap and while it is mostly directed toward white supremacist types quite a few from the far left consider anyone who disagrees with them or wants to start a conversation on a controversial topic a "Nazi".

        I think it's disgusting using Nazi the way people do now days, it diminishes the atrocities that happened and trivialises it just to score points or get some sort of reaction, TYT are guilty of doing this themselves calling people Nazi's, just pick another word for crying out loud.

        I also remember a time that Cenk was denying the Armenian Genocide,
        ( which being honest I knew nothing about until Cenk brought it up in a video) which he now says he doesn't have all the information instead of straight up denying it happened, I used to be a fan of TYT but the straw that broke the camels back was the interview with Sam Harris, it was painful to watch

          Wait... A Turk denying the Armenian Genocide? *Pretends to be surprised*

          well they didn't just push the punch a nazi shit, they also did the exact thing your saying the far left does, there are many people out there that TYT have called nazi/fascist who are not and they are well aware that the far leftists will attack people they think are nazi or fascist so they are guilty of inciting violence just as much as Alex Jones.

          To be fair, many of the people being called "Nazi" nowadays do the whole salute, dogwhistles and share many of the ethno-supremacist ideologies...

            It's not "many" though, if someone says there a conservative or republican they left call them fascist or Nazi becuase the have a different ideology.

            It's not like the other side is any better though, calling others "snowflakes" or "soyboys" but that pales in comparison to Nazi it's disgraceful.

              You are doing exactly the same, though, don't you notice it? While I know there are people such as the ones you describe, they are not even a majority among the group usually derisively called "the left"; they're simply loud. Most people will only use the word "Nazi" for an actual Nazi, or at least for the edgy wannabe cosplayers that many of them actually are.

            your a big fan of lists as seen above... you got a list of these people who "do the whole salute, dogwhistles and share many of the ethno-supremacist ideologies"

            because i know of many people who have been called nazi or fascist by the leftists in the media, and they hate all identity politics whether it's feminists, BLM or the KKK and they regularly clash with the handful of actual white supremacists online.

            i think your either lying or you think these people hold ethno-supremacist ideologies because the media told you they do and just like my mother you never bothered to look any further.

            here is my list: Dave Rubin, Ben Shapiro, Carl Benjamin (sargon fo akkad), Chris Ray Gun, Milo Yiannopoulos, Steven Crowder, Mark Meechan (count dankula), Jeramy (2 dads) Hambly, Patrick (bearing), Trump, Tim Pool, Tommy Robinson, Avi Yemini, Paul Joseph Watson, MYSELF on this very website. etc etc etc.

            and before you use this list to try and brand me as some lunatic far right idiot in a bubble remember before you make a fool of yourself that most of the left leaning people i listen to won't be on this list.

              Good job presuming what I'd call Nazi. Interestingly, your presumption seems to imply that there are NO people such as the one I describe (i.e. Nazi saluters, etc) as apparently, such stuff is an invention of the leftist media that you, again, presume I have no discernment to challenge. But I am not going to be like you, so instead of presuming, I'll ask you outright: is that true? Do you really believe, as you seem to imply, that the Nazi-flavoured far-Right is an invention of the far-Left--which, on the other hand, is a thing that definitely exists?

              As for your little list (and thanks, btw, for again, presuming I'd make a fool of myself and warning me against it), I only recognise a couple of names (maybe you again presumed that I'd be obsessed with right-wing "influencers" or whatever they are?) and although I would call them many choice names, I'd probably not call them "Nazi". Sorry for betraying yet another assumption.

                Good job presuming what I'd call Nazi.

                literally never did this, I actually asked you for a list which you failed to provide after you deliberately misinterpreted what i said so you could get butthurt. I wasn't aware that i had to explain in minute detail everything i'm saying and even if i did it would be impossible for me to anticipate how your going to fail to grasp what i'm saying.

                you accuse me of a presumption that no white identitarians exist let me quote myself as proof that you are insane they regularly clash with the handful of actual white supremacists online i think you owe me an apology.

                there is also the other comment of mine up above where i @ you that has information regarding how many white identitarians exist in the US so again no i do not think they don't exist in fact i have told you multiple times that i know they do, it would be nice if you could at least remember the conversation we are having thanks.

                Do you really believe etc etc

                ill use caps NO I DO NOT BELIEVE that no racists/white identitarians exist, what i do believe and have told you before is that the leftist media is lying about how many there are and using the smears i mentioned above to make it seem like there are thousands and thousands of them and also that the number is growing not shrinking. The reason behind the smears is to not only direct violence and censorship at people who have different opinions but also it's a money making scam (hate clicks).

                I never said you would call any of the people on my list nazi in fact if you calm yourself and read my comment you will notice it explicitly says the media is responsible for the smears. And i use the list as an example of many people who have been accused of being the things you talked about and are in fact NOT. This is meant to be nothing but an example of people who are not "do the whole salute, dogwhistles and share many of the ethno-supremacist ideologies" types that have been accused of it.

                Stop trying to read my mind and read the damn text, not everything is a 4D chess insult sometimes people just want to show you an alternative viewpoint.

                So now to be perfectly clear!!! I have presented a list of falsely labeled people that are everything from moderate left to full on right wing, none of them are far right or hold racist views. I would love it if you could now backup your original claim with a list so i can check it out or admit that you made the statement simply to try and win the argument and it has no basis in fact. AT A BARE MINIMUM you used the word many which makes your statement flat out lies to begin with because there is no way that the amount of people being falsely called nazi is anywhere near the number of actual nazi's.

                  you accuse me of a presumption... i think you owe me an apology.
                  No apologies for you until you start applying some reading comprehension before calling people "insane" and "butthurt". I literally, explicitly said that although your language implied that, I would NOT presume and rather ask you whether that's what you believed. I saw what you said before but I wanted to make sure--because of your insistence that "Nazi" is a term that the "leftists" always apply with equivocation, which introduced the possibility that you think that there are, in fact, no Nazis at all. Thus my question in lieu of an assumption, which you have now answered.

                  I think at this point we can reach common ground, though: You admit that there are indeed people who could rightfully be called "Nazi" and I can admit that there are some people who misuse the word, especially when it comes to referring to certain other breeds of right-winger (though I won't accept the widely encompassing generalisations that you use). If that's the case, then it would be a good thing for you to assume, while initiating a discussion, that the other person may be actually using the word (or terminology) correctly, rather than assuming disingenuity. If you can't do that, you could at least ask what the other person actually thinks before assuming the worst.

                  As for the list you ask of me, I'm sorry to disappoint. The "many" I refer to are not a curated list of minor celebrities or anything of the sort, but rather, the countless nobodies who gather in supremacist communities in certain platforms such as Reddit, 4chan and Discord. Leaked chat and thread records surface frequently, where you get to see these people planning violence, reveling on the prospect of causing harm and death to fellow civilians and teaching one another to deceive, misrepresent and disguise their rhetoric to gather new recruits. I don't really know if the "leftist media" is truly inflating the number of supremacist personalities in any significant way, but I can tell you that the threat of hundreds, if not thousands of individuals coming together online to plan real-life events and aggressively recruit the youth is very real.

                i can't take it anymore you are completely disingenuous on this topic and you refuse to accept reality.

                You cannot just decide that Antifa are okay because they oppose (in theory) white nationalists etc and haven't killed anyone, Antifa are responsible for sending shitloads of people to hospital and so far i haven't found a single time they actually hit the target you argue they are aiming for. Instead they are sending mostly moderate bystanders into hospital with broken skulls, they beat the shit out of a women who did nothing other than walk past a Milo event, the bike lock incident then there is the German politician who had his skull cracked open and was lucky to survive his attack the list goes on.

                You are moronically arguing the equivalent that it's okay for you to commit armed robbery because your neighbor murdered someone, get a clue. Just because Antifa victims so far have all survived doesn't make them any better they are just as tyrannical as the people they allegedly oppose.

                As for the "Reddit, 4chan and Discord" argument how much of that is just edgy memes and jokes? you have no idea nobody does because let's face it looking any closer might diminish the ammunition. These forums are notorious for taking shit too far and the people on 4chan manufactures hoax's like it's a full time job, yet you just believe in the calls to violence etc.

                Is there any evidence anything on reddit or 4chan has actually led to violence in the real world? or is it just memes and jokes? Also no i don't care whether you consider racist jokes to be violence or whatever i'm not interested in your interpretation of comedy, just asking in case you are aware of what the people committing these atrocities said because i'm betting it's almost all going to be people making jokes.

                The amount of people i know that have died as a direct result of white hate groups is 1 and that riot was started by Antifa, i know about injuries and the like from them what grinds my gears is you and the media trying to excuse Antifa for this shit. Every time these jerks show up and start violence the same damn shit is written "peaceful counter protesters" (bullshit) "violence breaks out" it doesn't fall out the fkn sky Antifa starts attacking people, yet every single time in every single article i can find these stupid phrases show up.

                I seems to me like the simple thing to do would be to admit you are wrong and Antifa is just as deserving of criticism as the white hate groups, but you just won't do it.

                for the record my list of minor celebrities as you put it (has me wondering if your one of those drooling sycophants that gets your politics from hollywood) none of them are even remotely far right and even some of the ones i listed are actually very left they just don't buy into this social justice religious crap so they get dehumanised by the media and Antifa.

                Antifa are just people who have violent tendencies and they use the terms fascist and nazi so they can attack people and get away with it, they use it as an excuse for guilt free violence and i can't even get a "yes that is bad i do not condone" from you. That is literally all i want to see if i can get just 1 person on the left to disavow Antifa this entire thread would be worth it, i do not want to argue any more in circles with you about this shit Antifa is evil admit it or just leave me alone.

                oh and the 4chan shit that is just meant to be something for you to consider you can ignore it entirely i don't care.

                  shitloads of people

                  Do you have a number? Or can you only debate in vague hyperboles? Here, my next challenge to you since you're complaining that my previous one was unfair: you number of /wounded/ by antifa, versus my number of people /murdered/ by supremacists/ethno-nationalists, etc. You are basically arguing that murder is equivalent with any form of violence which is a ridiculous idea that would get you laughed out of any court of law, but since I've been trying to be conciliatory in spite of your unnecessary hostility, I'll let it stand, so give me your numbers, hopefully backed by reliable evidence.

                  You are moronically arguing the equivalent that it's okay for you to commit armed robbery because your neighbor murdered someone

                  No, I haven't "moronically" argued that. That's an argument that you put in my mouth, in order to be able to dismiss me as a moron. I haven't /anywhere/ argued that I support or endorse antifa's deeds. All I've argued is that the supremacists, bigots et al, have a higher body count, i.e. they are worse (even if you disagree with this, again, law--and shouldn't need to be said, but apparently it is, common sense--disagrees with you). So to clarify, (in the hopes that you cannot misrepresent my position to try to strengthen yours again), my argument in this respect is the following: if antifa is bad, the supremacists are worse, so let's address issues in order the importance. Let's get rid of the murderers with plainly stated genocidal ideals and, then, if removing them did not remove the "thugs" that allegedly oppose them, definitely let's get rid of those as well.

                  Is there any evidence anything on reddit or 4chan has actually led to violence in the real world? or is it just memes and jokes?

                  Oooh right, jokes and memes!! Hahaha! When they literally talk about genocide, "cleansing" and bringing weapons with pet names to their rallies they are all just joking! So funny! What a humourless fool I was for missing the joke. Oh, wait, no; there's actually the evidence that you presume doesn't exist and people have actually already been indicted and convicted and their little chat transcripts that proved premeditation and planning have been brought to light.

                  The amount of people i know that have died as a direct result of white hate groups is 1 and that riot was started by Antifa

                  Stop the presses! d1ckvegan only knows of 1 casualty by supremacists! This means that there has only been the one and all other claims are fake news! It definitely doesn't mean that he has purposefully chosen not to look particularly hard in the direction running against his bias or anything of the sort, lest he would have easily found the dozens of actual cases existing! Also yes, definitely antifa started that riot against peace-loving citizens who merely wanted to march around brandishing weapons and chanting their message of love: "Jews won't replace us", while throwing signs of respect for a noble German general from 80 years ago. It is unfathomable to think that those antifa thugs would oppose such fine individuals.

                  for the record my list of minor celebrities as you put it (has me wondering if your one of those drooling sycophants that gets your politics from hollywood) none of them are even remotely far right and even some of the ones i listed are actually very left they just don't buy into this social justice religious crap so they get dehumanised by the media and Antifa.

                  Yep, more fine individuals who only want to dehumanise irrelevant non-people such as women, Muslims, Hispanics, Blacks, Jews, gays and liberals! These poor angelic souls do NOT deserve to be dehumanised in response by those antifa monsters! Freedom of speech means that your heroes can say whatever they want against whomever they dislike, yet somehow, nobody is allowed to say anything against them!

                i do not know what bigots et al means. I am done with your crap you finally admit that Antifa are thugs yet your still excusing their behavior and even suggest we ignore them and go after the white supremacists, not once in this entire argument have i said Antifa are worse i have repeatedly tried to explain how they are just as bad the fact that they haven't killed anybody yet does amaze me, but like usual the far leftist (that is you) wants to focus on the right wingers.

                Antifa is guilty of on the whole much more damage and all i want is some uniform agreement that they should be punished to the full extent of the law the same as the white supremacists, if you cannot agree to that which seems likely because you literally said go after the white supremacists and leave Antifa alone and see if they stops them. Couple problems here firstly that approach is going to lead to a surge in recruitment for these white supremacist guys, you think when they cry about unequal treatment handing them a giant neon sign pointing to unequal treatment isn't going to help them recruit??? think that one though for me. Secondly Antifa have proven time and time again that they don't even attack white supremacists most of the time so i can't see why in your utopia where none of these hateful people exist that Antifa would stop since the Antifa definition of white supremacist includes anyone of any ethnicity that doesn't agree with them.

                I do not care that objectively the far right white nationalist have a higher body count it is absolutely irrelevant to whether or not Antifa is a terrorist organisation or not and they meet the exact definition of terrorist, unless your one of those nutters that thinks only brown people can be terrorists which i am sure you aren't. Stop defending terrorists please the police are perfectly capable of taking action against both of these groups in fact THAT'S THEIR FUCKING JOB. If it wasn't for people on the left continuously whining "the nazi guys are worse" maybe the police wouldn't be screwing around so much afraid of the media backlash. The headlines write themselves "police lock up Anti fascist protesters at fascist rally".

                definitely antifa started that riot against peace-loving citizens who merely wanted to march around brandishing weapons and chanting their message of love: "Jews won't replace us"

                dick move my dude not only did i never make this assessment but anyone who actually knows what happened at charlotsville knows that there were moderate peaceful protesters on both the left and the right that day, not only will you throw shit at me about not exploring anything counter to my bias but you will in the exact same reply make this abhorrent mischaracterisation of what really happened. The only reason that i believe Antifa started that riot is because a moderate group of anti fascist protesters (most of them pretty far left btw) that were in attendance up until the whole shitstorm kicked off (at which point they got the hell out of there) told us they started it yet not a single news item or article i saw at the time had this information not even fox news. Trump got a pasting by people like you for saying that there were good people on both sides even after going out of his way to condemn all forms of white ethnocentric doctrines lest he be misunderstood, turns out he was actually right about something for a change.

                Yep, more fine individuals who only want to dehumanise irrelevant non-people such as women, Muslims, Hispanics, Blacks, Jews, gays and liberals

                I knew you would do it eventually lol you are so insane firstly a good number of those people (let me look at the list again) 4 of them are on the left and 2 of them are actual liberals Tim is probably the most left of them and he would have been far left 10 years ago before the left went way off the fkn deep end, i myself am only just right of centre but you cant help yourself anyone who might disagree with me about anything even that violent thugs should be arrested is dehumanising people because i said so. You are a disgrace you want me to provide you with evidence?? i'm the only one that even references real life events, the only time you have referenced anything real is in response to me bringing it up. You cannot stop yourself, the list of real life human beings i give you none of which advocate for this horseshit you just accused them of are all people you would do well to follow and listen to but well that's not going to happen. You think your fighting some monolithic racist uprising in the west your deluded i am genuinely sorry you were not born in a time that would facilitate your crusade, but making one up and fighting against it isn't noble it's just sad. Not that your even doing anything your just wining on the internet and acting like Antifa's water-boy. I am completely done with this argument you cannot be trusted to make a coherant argument or even stand for a principle as simple as political violence is wrong no matter who's doing it, besides you smeared not only me but also 14 other people for shit none of us ever did and with as usual no evidence. I am not surprised you smeared these people since most of the stuff written about them in the media is also horseshit and far be it from a leftist to listen to the actual person much better idea to just look up some Vox articles and take it as gospel. But what would i know about these people i have only been watching their content for years and know what they have said with the added benefit of the context it was said in, much less nuance with my method of listening to people than with some buzzfeed hit piece. Soldier on i'm sure the utopia with no racists in it (which incidentally would make you furious to live in) is just around the corner as long as we ignore Antifa bashing the shit out of people and go after just the racists.

                  your still excusing their behavior

                  Man, can you have ONE response to me in which you do not assign to me words or intentions that are actually not contained within my own posts? It'd be really appreciated; this three-way debate between you, me and the version of me in your mind whose arguments you imagine is starting to get wearisome. Where have I "excused their behaviour"? Just because I will never agree with you that intent murderers are just the same as people of some vague violence that you cannot even give me numbers about, doesn't mean I'm excusing anybody.

                  Answer me, since you seem to be either incapable or unwilling of answering my requests for numbers and evidence-backed data: How do you justify focusing on people who haven't caused any casualties /not even accidentally/ while you apparently seem happy to let organised, premeditated murderers, walk free? You imply that I can't agree with this equivalence because I'm biased but as I mentioned before you could try to see who does /law/ agree with. Tell me, honestly, if a police station gets a call reporting that armed people yelling racist chants have killed somebody, and another call saying that some dude punched some other dude in the face... which call mobilises more agents and is addressed with more promptness? And if both perpetrators get busted and trialed, tell me, which one is going to get a longer sentence? Your equivalence holds no water under any possible light.

                  Couple problems here firstly that approach is going to lead to a surge in recruitment for these white supremacist guys, you think when they cry about unequal treatment handing them a giant neon sign pointing to unequal treatment isn't going to help them recruit???

                  Lol, so according to you, the opposite would be better? Not opposing them at all, leaving them alone as they preach their anti-semitic, xenophobic, racist drivel to impressionable, edgy youth and somehow that will be more effective at reducing their numbers? Get real.

                  they don't even attack white supremacists most of the time
                  Antifa is guilty of on the whole much more damage

                  Again, vague, unsubstantiated claims. Where are your numbers?? You talk of this very authoritatively but don't seem to have any data backing your argument, which is frankly ridiculous: If you hate these antifa people so much and honestly, genuinely think they are a bigger threat to society than the fascists that they claim to oppose, you would have done your research and you'd have tons of solid data to shut up opposing claims. But all you have is vague generalisations such as "most", "many", "much more than". Give me numbers or don't even bother, as I won't believe any of those clearly emotional or anecdotal claims.

                  I do not care that objectively the far right white nationalist have a higher body count it is absolutely irrelevant

                  Whelp, pal, you'll find out that you are quite alone in this regard. Most decent people do care about murder and find it more "relevant" than, basically any other crime this side of raping children.

                  Stop defending terrorists please the police are perfectly capable of taking action against both of these groups in fact THAT'S THEIR FUCKING JOB. If it wasn't for people on the left continuously whining "the nazi guys are worse" maybe the police wouldn't be screwing around so much afraid of the media backlash.

                  This is a patently absurd comment. Police are not swayed by people in social media. They have busted people on both sides. If you think that they have busted comparatively too many supremacists is because, again, they have committed worse and more numerous crimes including, murder, conspiracy and bomb-making. Speaking of police, btw, it is well-documented (as in, there's evidence for it, as opposed to most of your claims) that they are constantly courted by white supremacists' rhetoric, so if you think "leftist media" may influence them, rest assured that supremacists are making sure of evening that field.

                  Regarding Charlottesville, you are missing the point. Even if it's true that a counterprotester threw the first punch, (there's no consensus) the fact remains that the "peaceful" ralliers you mention were openly carrying, chanting anti-semitic sentences and literally making Nazi gestures. You have failed to explain why such a display needs to be tolerated, why such vile mentality must not be strongly shown that their views are not welcomed in a modern, just society. In fact, for all your indignant condemnation of what you call "terrorists", you haven't spared much commentary for people who actually have planted bombs and premeditately murdered people, and who boast of an ideology that encourages discrimination, bigotry and even genocide. So once again, instead of presuming, I'm going to ask you: do you sympathise with their ideology? If not, I'll humbly ask you to demonstrate so by employing just as many words of enraged, self-righteous contempt and condemnation for them as you have used against antifa.

                  I knew you would do it eventually lol you are so insane firstly a good number of those people (let me look at the list again) 4 of them are on the left and 2 of them are actual liberals Tim is probably the most left of them and he would have been far left 10 years ago before the left went way off the fkn deep end

                  First off, I'm not sure why you keep mentioning that some of these people are "left". Should that be some sort of shield against criticism? Or validation for their views? People like you who subscribe to party lines for either side are prone to easy generalisations that add nothing to the discourse. Who cares what their party or political affiliation is if they are horrible people? Second, I've taken a look at some of the people you mention as you seem to think I should be familiar with them all. Many of them are people who simply preface everything they say with "look, I'm liberal, but" and then proceed to attack all liberals and /never/ conservatives, or really, anybody who is not a liberal. Or the ones who say "I mean, I dislike Trump" yet basically approve and defend every little thing he says and does, while "coincidentally" bashing his detractors.

                  You are a disgrace you want me to provide you with evidence??... You cannot stop yourself, the list of real life human beings i give you none of which advocate for this horseshit you just accused them

                  Lol, you should have known better by now that I don't say things without evidence. I didn't mention any of it before because 1) I'm sure that you, as a fervent follower have heard these quotes and are only disingenuously pretending they don't exist and 2) Really, it's both tedious and kind of odious to have to reread this vile crap in order to copy paste it for you, but sure, let's do this, starting with the few from your list that I know:

                  Yiannopolous justifying child molestation: "It was perfectly consensual. When I was the 14, I was the predator... there are certainly people who are capable of giving consent at a younger age, I certainly consider myself to be one of them". He demonising and mocking feminists: "But none of these groups hate with the PMS-fueled pettiness of feminism." Here, glorifying deception, manipulation and lies over facts and principles: "In politics, victory goes to those with cunning, mettle and deviousness, not those who have facts and principles on their side." On intently discriminating against Muslims: "I, a free speech fundamentalist, still support banning the burka and restricting Islamic immigration."

                  Ben Shapiro, I give to him, is much more careful with his language. Mostly, he uses lots (and LOTS) of reasonable sounding-rhetoric to subtly introduce massive strawmen that then he passes as the whole "Left" in a massively hypocritical move, as one of his more overused criticism is the way "the Left" makes sweeping generalisations. Nevertheless, here, I found a nice homophobic remark that somehow made it through his otherwise more careful discourse: "If you pay tuition, you're sponsoring the militant homosexual agenda. If you pay taxes, you're sponsoring the militant homosexual agenda. If your child majors in English, you're sponsoring the militant homosexual agenda." Also, let us not forget when he tried to imply that colleges instigate pedophilia or when he clearly sympathised with birtherists.

                  Trump? Haha, not touching this low-quality bait with a ten-mile pole. You know the stuff he has said, you know that I know it, and you know that I know that you know. I'll spare you from having to type lines and lines of "lol, it was just a joke" or "simply locker talk!" and all the other ways in which we both know you'll try to defend the worst of his bigotry.

                  I had never heard anything about Joseph Watson but some googling found me some hilarious conspiracy theories and the fact that he's peddling "brain pills" in Alex Jones's platform, so forgive me if I just choose to ignore him as an irrelevant nutbag with a strange and rather creepy fixation with Hillary Clinton.

                  Tommy Robinson? never heard of him either but the first google result gave me literal pages and pages of massively hateful anti-Muslim quotes, that I simply hope you won't make me copy-paste here.

                  Avi Yemini? Man, who even is this nobody? How deep do you have to scrape the bottom of the barrel to choose your heroes? Basically, anybody who've ever said something slightly anti-SJW, anti-feminist, -Muslim or -liberal can immediately get your rapt attention to sell you brain pills or edgy t-shirts or whatever other little thing in which they seek to profit from the hatred they teach you. Anyway, try as I might, I couldn't find any quotes from him and I was not about starting listening to his drivel. What I found was that he is chummy with nationalistic and supremacists groups and that he once shared an image when he expressed love and admiration for the Charlottesville murderer, which, really, is all we need to know.

                  Jeremy Hambly? Lol, after googling him I realised that I actually had heard of him but promptly forgot. A poor conspiratorial clown, so ridiculous that the first link I found about him had even other far-righters laugh at him for being a tryhard. As expected, lots of sexism, whining about "PC culture" and lite incel crap.

                  You'll have to forgive me if at this point I stop digging into the cesspool of your little collection of poor, "dehumanised-by-the-left" B-list influencers since I have, by now, empirically proved my thesis, i.e. that they themselves dehumanise other human beings themselves.

                  i'm the only one that even references real life events

                  No, you haven't. In fact, several times I have requested you to show me "real" evidence of your claims and you have outright ignored me. The only "real" event which you have deigned to acknowledge is Charlottesville, if only to allege that antifa were the ones in the wrong. So please, do reference and back up with evidence from "real life" your claims.

                  you cannot be trusted to make a coherant argument

                  coherent*

                  or even stand for a principle as simple as political violence is wrong no matter who's doing it

                  I haven't disagreed with that claim, what are you talking about? All I have said is that murder is worse, which, I remind you, is an argument backed by the law of the land.

                  besides you smeared not only me

                  Please quote where I've done that. Seems as though that's another thing that the imaginary Pylgrim with whom you battle in your mind did to you because I have not.

                  to just look up some Vox articles and take it as gospel

                  Eh, to be honest, Vox is a hit or miss for me; just mentioning this as it's the umpteenth time where you freely make assumptions about me and then judge me accordingly.

                  But what would i know about these people i have only been watching their content for years

                  This, on the other hand, I believe. You have been indoctrinated through and through.

                  As the last word, let me assure you that I'm Right-wing, thus you must accept my criticism. That's how it works, right, illexi? ;)

                i skimmed though your novel there and only saw a few things i wanted to respond to.

                besides you smeared not only me

                Please quote where I've done that. Seems as though that's another thing that the imaginary Pylgrim with whom you battle in your mind did to you because I have not.

                no problem here it is smartass Yep, more fine individuals who only want to dehumanise irrelevant non-people such as women, Muslims, Hispanics, Blacks, Jews, gays and liberals if you had a brain you would remember that i named myself in that list so here we go total horseshit smears on me and the others, probably should have thought about the spastic shit you sling around before issuing challenges.

                i pointed out i'm the only one of us to ever reference real life events and the best your peabrain could come up with was a charlotsville rant, you forget the other things i have referenced and i note a complete lack of even attempting to prove you ever refenced a single real life event, who's point were you trying to prove.

                a whole load of shit about your research into the people i listed, which i will now collectively take a dump upon. You did absolutely no research what you did was look for information online printed about people and big surprise you run into a giant load of complete bullshit, out of context quotes and hit pieces written by people who hate the subjects your researching well done you take the gold medal in lazy, instead of actually listening to the people themselves and putting in some effort you got bamboozled by their critics and swallowed it all. The people on my list have a long list of haters many of them digest the leftist media so writing hit pieces on them is lucrative, the very last person i would go to as a source is someone financially incentivised to lie about the subject or someone who hates the subject, but you dived right into that cesspool and almost everything you "found" is bullshit and i know that because i have actually listened to these people i know the context surrounding those cherry picked quotes etc.

                You say you don't disagree that political violence is wrong no matter who is doing it just that murder is worse which is also an attempt to straw man me as believing the opposite yet you did say that we should leave Antifa alone and get rid of the white supremacists them maybe Antifa would disappear, well i'm terribly sorry but that makes you a disgrace Antifa should not be allowed to get away with crimes just because you think other people are worse or that other crimes are worse that is not how the law works you cretin.

                You accuse me of being indoctrinated which is actually cute since firstly the list of people i gave i deliberately went out of my way to tell you that some of the lefties i follow aren't there and secondly the list i gave you has people from all over the political spectrum which you might know had you bothered to do some actual research instead of being indoctrinated yourself with leftist bullshit. I cannot think of a single political issue that i could get even 4 of them to agree on but i'm the narrow minded indoctrinated one? lol

                Your not the most extreme SJW i have seen but the simple fact that your go to move is Yep, more fine individuals who only want to dehumanise irrelevant non-people such as women, Muslims, Hispanics, Blacks, Jews, gays and liberals tells everyone exactly what you are.

                It was perhaps my duty to go through your "research" point by point and then inform you of what actually happened but i can't deal with another one of you fools just now, you had some good shit on Ben Shapiro and a couple of other good shots throughout the rest of it, unfortunately the simple fact that i can watch someones content and disagree with them won't make a dent with you, I know your type you're like industrial grade ideologue juice you will try and find the absolute stupidest thing any given person on that list has said and then because i follow their work i then believe said thing also. My claim was never that these people aren't wrong or that they don't have views i disagree with just that none of them are nazi/fascist/white supremacist whatever the smear is and that the leftist media and the SJW's on social media aswell will use these labels to direct Antifa this is a fact and you cannot dispute it no matter how much you try none of them fit this description.

                I will never agree with you that right wing nutcases killing people is grounds for ignoring Antifa, setting aside the rest of the argument and really drilling to the core now that is what you believe and that is what you have argued YOU ARE WRONG. It is okay to be wrong as long as you acknowledge you screwed up and rectify your mistake, say it with me now Antifa are terrorists and they need to be prosecuted when they commit acts of violence

                If i see anything but that statement at the beginning of your next post i will not be reading any further i have not the time not the inclination to debunk all the bullshit you just learned about the people on my list nor do i really care, this argument started about Antifa and i let you sidetrack me into some bloody Narnia type shit and i'm over it now either see sense and agree or just continue to excuse left wing political violence for whatever reason i don't really care why you do it simply knowing you do is enough.

                  As requested, I'll start agreeing that all acts of violence need to be prosecuted. I have never said otherwise--much as you wish I did in order to be able of yelling at me and calling me names. What I did say is that crimes should be addressed with the relative force and urgency that each particular case deserves. It's lamentable that you believe that somebody who punches a dude should receive as much attention by the police as murderers or bombers, mostly because you'll find out that very few people agree with that, eliciting your disappointment.

                  But, I haven't smeared you. I literally have not said a single thing against you even if you think that by inserting yourself in a list you get to "cleverly" claim so. On the other hand, you yourself have proved how "fine" and outstanding an individual you are: A person who discussing with someone who has unfailingly shown respect to him even while disagreeing, has nevertheless called that other person "moron", "cretin" "peabrain", "spastic", etc. Truly a person of whom cannot be told that "dehumanises" others, right?

                  You also, quite humorously at this point, keep repeating "I'm the one mentioning real events" even though you haven't mentioned any other event than the one agreed, either "real" or imagined, even as I keep politely requesting evidence-backed data, which, by now is pretty obvious you do not possess and try to cover for its absence with anger-fueled rants. For somebody who loathes Antifa as much as you claim, it's rather silly how you cannot even bring up a single instance of significance of their "terrorism" that you so decry.

                  well i'm terribly sorry but that makes you a disgrace Antifa should not be allowed to get away with crimes just because you think other people are worse

                  Ah, here we are. This post's expected misrepresentation of my argument. Nowhere did I say that people should be able to "get away" with stuff. See the first paragraph for more.

                  I cannot think of a single political issue that i could get even 4 of them to agree on

                  Really? I'm pretty sure that all of them agree on being anti-"SJWs"/liberals/PC culture, which is likely what first gained them your attention, regardless of how much or little you agree with their other stuff. As I said, claiming to be "left" means nothing in this respect.

                  My claim was never that these people aren't wrong or that they don't have views i disagree with just that none of them are Nazi/fascist/white supremacist

                  I don't see the problem here. I explicitly agreed with you that I wouldn't call them "Nazi" nor "supremacist" or similar. I'd call one of them "homophobe", a few of them "chauvinist", some "xenophobes", some others "pathetic, whiny losers" and the lot of them, something like "hateful cads" or maybe "profiteers of white boys' anger".

                  out of context quotes

                  Ah right! I should listen to these drivel-spouters tell me angrily for hours how white/straight/American guys have it so bad because of those evil SJWs/feminists/brown people/etc and that if we see it from a defensive point of view it makes sense to attack them in retaliation and then those quotes all of a sudden do not sound so bad!

                  I will never agree with you that right wing nutcases killing people is grounds for ignoring Antifa

                  Well, good thing that, since I haven't said that. I have always talked about prioritising the most grave and urgent matters. Once again, I'll remind you that the law is on my side when I tell you that murder is a more pressing matter than anything that Antifa has done. If you have any further complaints in this regard, I'll direct you to take them to a police station for a more focused approach to the relevant enforcers, rather than poor ol' me, a rando on the internets. Do go and yell at them and call them "cretins" for prosecuting murderers instead of using all the force of the law to stop people punching white dudes.

                  Also, since you may have skipped the following paragraph from my previous post, I'll paste it here to hopefully get an answer. I really don't want to think that you're purposefully avoiding answering it:

                  In fact, for all your indignant condemnation of what you call "terrorists", you haven't spared much commentary for people who actually have planted bombs and premeditately murdered people, and who boast of an ideology that encourages discrimination, bigotry and even genocide. So once again, instead of presuming, I'm going to ask you: do you sympathise with their ideology? If not, I'll humbly ask you to demonstrate so by employing just as many words of enraged, self-righteous contempt and condemnation for them as you have used against antifa.

                i would love to answer your question and address the other things in this argument it seems i have misunderstood your point, but i have typed out several very long responses that have not posted then i realised my account had again been yeeted with absolutely no communication from the mods as usual. So i made this account which will undoubtedly be destroyed soon even though i don't ever plan on using it again, i will probably continue to read Kotaku as soon as i figure out how to do so without giving them any traffic or add money.

                anyway like i said i would really like to continue this conversation so i have made a throwaway discord server and i hope you will join it --https://discord.gg/3JZgnKY

                even if they kill this account like the others i will still be able to log in and therefore i will get notification if you reply here. i hope you will join me on discord where selectively executed guidelines won't be getting in our way.

                  Regrettably, I am going to decline your offer. While it is usually fun enough to debate with you at the very beginning of a discussion, I have found out, on several separate occasions, that you invariably end up growing increasingly more agitated which leads to stuff I definitely not enjoy and I have mentioned a few times... and that's with having the built-in filters of asynchronous communication and public moderation. I really don't want to think where would we end in an unmoderated private server in which we'd speak in the heat of the moment allowed by the immediacy of a chat.

                  Another reason is that I have become really, really busy these days, so while I can chip away at a long message here and there until I'm able to post it, I really don't have that much time to sit down for any prolonged amount of time to chat.

                  I don't know if I'll hear from you again, so I'll let you know that I bear you no ill emotion. The reason why I kept answering your messages is that I want you to move on from the tribalism of which you accuse me. Yes, I am a liberal, yes, I hate Donald Trump, yes, depending on whom you ask, I guess I am an "SJW"? But that doesn't mean I won't listen or consider other opinions. However, I will always side with facts and compassion, and in times where we sometimes cannot be sure about the factuality of "facts" due to strong tribalist narratives and misinterpretations of events, it means that I'm relying on "compassion" quite a bit more.

                  The last thing I want to leave you with regarding our conversation here is this very recent development: https://www.theroot.com/the-fbi-admits-black-lives-matter-was-never-a-threat-i-1835417043 . When you read this (and I hope you do read it) I want you to be on the lookout for your own subconscious reaction: is it the first thing that pops into your mind: "well, the FBI must be either mistaken, stupid, or even complicit"? And if so, why? Why would you trust your own gut and information that you have gotten from semi-obscure, angry/edgy influencers on the internet who seek to profit from your attention over the testimony of qualified, veteran professionals whose very job definition is to look into the activities of terrorists? You don't have to answer this to me, I mostly want you to honestly question for yourself things that you take for granted when the experts say that you are wrong.

    When they redistribute the wealth, I hope the Party Leaders favour me with that nice apartment.

    This is the second Gita Jackson socialism article in recent times.
    She should stick to Sims, that's a lot more palatable.

    If even half the claims in these comments are true then I don't think this is something that should be promoted on as large a platform as Kotaku.

      Its clickbait article... we all looked and commented because TYT was mentioned... heck i wouldnt have bothered if it wasnt for the fact the person being brought forth as a "social changer for good" in the article wasnt also responsible for siccing a mob on Liana K for her opinion piece....

    If you know what the word "proletariat" means, do you know what that makes you? Well read and erudite...for a Communist!

    But seriously. It's nice to see at least a vague bit of socialist representation out there, given the standard.

    Last edited 22/05/19 1:17 am

      The replies and comments just in this thread show why more of it is needed.

        yes, Because of course anyone who disagrees with you drumbax must be a far right trump voting nazi

        (Life long labor voter here btw)

    Kotaku should be disgusted publishing this trash, keep your politics in the bin where they belong, TYT are as extreme and stupid as right wing nuts, and these morons have no idea what socialism actually entails.
    People would be offended if you posted Alex a Jones taking to Twitch to spout his nonsense and this is no different. Double standards shit show.

    Hasan is an idiot that thinks success is theft and that somehow you can "seize the means of production" without bloodshed, i could go on but honestly don't know why i bothered writing this much, anybody who buys into any of this crap is beyond help.

    ITT we have people unable to comprehend the difference between socialism, communism and the bullshit about both that they have been forced by boomers and money chasing reactionaries for their whole lives.

      Lol we also have people unable to comprehend the difference between a white supremacist and someone with a different ideology.

      Pot
      Black

      the bullshit is the contents of the pool that is communism and socialism is the slide that goes into it.

      too far?

    @alexwalker

    i'm sorry to bother you but one of my comments got deleted and i have no idea how it breached the guidelines.

    i mean i suspect i haven't actually breached them i'm just being censored for nothing but on the off chance i am wrong i would like to know what the hell i did wrong so i can avoid it in the future.

    Last edited 26/05/19 4:05 am

      Alex is currently in Taipei for Computex, but I'll answer you.

      Its more that we have an automated moderator system in the back end that requires us to manually go through an approve any comments that have been flagged. The auto moderator loves to flag just about anything and everything so sometimes normal comments get taken down without either of us noticing.

      I try and get to each one but I am stretched thin across all three sites.

        no problem Olivia, i was sure that you are allowed to use profanity as long as it's not directed at somebody which is the only thing i could think of.

        it's been so long that the conversation has moved on so i don't think it matters anymore that my comment was yeeted.

        thanks for your response, somehow knowing i was censored by a robot doesn't make me feel any better but the only other solution would be no moderation, and that's just crazy =D.

    @pylgrim starting a new thread down here that other area had become confusing.

    I was actually hoping to continue over voice chat on discord or at least have me on voice chat, your apprehension in regard to my language is something i should have honestly seen coming and while i have no proof to offer that might convince you otherwise it is unlikely that i would abuse you in a private setting, everyone is different and i think the public nature of these forums brings out the worst in me. Anyway the main reason i wanted to use discord was so i don't have to keep making new accounts, if you wanted to use discords chat system i don't see how being busy makes any difference there or here, I hope you will reconsider joining me on discord.

    depending on whom you ask, I guess I am an "SJW"? But that doesn't mean I won't listen or consider other opinions part 2 actually excludes you from my idea of an SJW so while you might occasional say things that seem really SJW the fact that you engage in any kind of dialogue instead of just responding with buzzword salad makes you different. Being a "liberal" is not bad and while it might not seem like it i hold many leftwing positions, i am far from tribal. I Belong nowhere politically speaking i usual vote labor/green sometimes independent because of where i live i don't get much of a selection, the only reason i compass test on the right is free speech it used to be the evangelical religious types gunning for freedom of expression now it is coming from the left almost exclusively. I think the far left and SJW types take advantage of your compassion to manipulate your position it's a Marxist tactic i can't remember the name of it at the moment, but the gist of it is they play off the tribal right, each side muddies the argument (factuality erodes) then once everyone has destroyed the debate with disingenuous framing etc the far left makes an appeal to emotion not an argument of "fact" so given the BLM matter i'm about to address and what you have asked me to do, i say be vigilant and if one side is arguing to emotion and the other is not be wary. I'm not going to say they are wrong all the time but if your arguing based on emotion it is usually because that is all you have left, the other sides arguments might be just stupid i find often the correct answer lies somewhere in between.

    I think you are assuming some things about me and what i think of BLM here, i have not yet read the article i do not have the time right now, i have a great deal of bias against theroot because if the race baiters that work there, that being said the headline makes sense i never thought BLM was a black supremacist group. They could have done more to distance themselves from the black supremacist groups that latched onto the movement and disavow the cop killer they had in their midst. While i have numerous problems with the BLM movement most of them are small and few are actually to do with the movement as a whole but instead are about individuals or groups within the movement. It would take ages to write it all out which is why i'm such a big fan of voice chat, so i will just say BLM does not fit what i would consider to be black supremacist and definitely not a terrorist group, i have solid reasons that i won't bother going into unless you ask, i actually have had this argument with some right wing twit before in the comment section on youtube i think it was on one of Steven Crowder's videos.

    is it the first thing that pops into your mind: "well, the FBI must be either mistaken, stupid, or even complicit"?
    I promise i will read the article but i think this set of circumstances i can guarantee won't occur and btw that has never been my reaction to the FBI.

    You don't have to answer this to me, I mostly want you to honestly question for yourself things that you take for granted when the experts say that you are wrong.
    i guess i can ignore this section but i do want to ask how is this different to when i called you a peabrain?

    While i maintain my apology which i am now thinking was probably in one of the posts that didn't send, anyway i apologise for the things i said however you need to see the double standard just because your not using "coarse language" doesn't mean your not being insulting.

    I hope you reconsider joining me on discord, according to my brother the absence of an audience or perceived audience makes for a very different and more congenial conversation in my case. Btw my last post was a bit hyperbolic i didn't expect i would be able to respond to you because i expected this account to be immediately deleted, and i am just now thinking i should have tested this account could post before writing all this shit out, finger crossed i guess...

    Last edited 15/06/19 3:10 pm

Join the discussion!

Trending Stories Right Now