Destiny: The Dark Below? More Like The Dark Bro-low

Alright, that 'pun' was terrible, but here's my point: today a new trailer for Destiny: The Dark Below was released and it's a little bit obnoxious for my tastes.


Someone mentioned to me that it looks as though they were trying to hit a 'Guardians of the Galaxy' vibe. I think they kinda missed the mark.

Maybe I'm just being the party pooper here, but I think it does say a lot about how Activision and Bungie are marketing the game, and the audience they're hoping to retain. It reminds me a lot of Call of Duty trailers over the last three or four years.

I think it's becoming pretty clear that Activision and Bungie are looking for a proper mainstream buy-in on this DLC, that they're hoping the folks who typically play one or two games a year are going to invest in this DLC and make that Destiny 10 year plan a reality.

Also: I'm not sure I'm a big fan of how this Destiny thing is coming together. Tying gear to levels at this point is starting to look a little bit cynical when you have to buy certain DLC to get access to certain weapons/armour. When you consider that said weapons/armour is actually tied in to your ability to level up and take on certain tasks... I'm not exactly sure what I'm getting at here, but it seems a little too similar to a 'pay to win' business model for me.


    All very valid concerns Mark and I totally agree with you. Never got into CoD, but for some reason I really do enjoy this game. I think it's all the people I've played with that have made it. I haven't encountered any shit-talking 13 year olds, and have had some great raiding experiences that just keep me coming back. I feel dirty for wanting to pre-order the DLC, but I do want more!

      Agreed! My experiences with the Destiny community so far have been fantastic, and although the game is lacking in certain areas the core mechanics are top notch. Rarely has a FPS sucked me in the way Destiny has. As for the DLC? Of course i'll buy it, along with millions of others, and no amount of negative articles or whiny posters will change that.

    Lol holy [email protected] it really is just one large pay to win game.

      ? No. You don't pay to win. You pay to have the chance to get the gear.

        Are you trolling? Did you really just say its not pay to win but pay for a chance to win? How is that in any way better.

          How at all is that a chance to win? If you ever run the raid then you'll most likely never get all the upgrades within the first run, this is what's happened with VoG. Most people will be raiding for months before they get their full set of upgrades.

          I'm more-so inclined to ask whether you're trolling.

          And a down-vote for the truth? Go ahead then.

          Bottom line is, yeah if you want more content you have to buy the expansion. You want the weapons and armour that is associated to the expansion then you have to commit the time to GETTING the gear.

          I think alot of people are mixing up the fact that you need the time to get the 'upgrades' as opposed to buying the 'upgrades'.

          Last edited 26/11/14 10:42 am

            Cater is clearly not. This also raises questions about iron banner, after the second dlc drops if you decided not to pick up both then you will be at a major disadvantage.

              I would assume that they would add additional gear to the Iron Banner to keep the balance in that theory.

      I don't think you understand what pay to win means, is Boarderlands pay to win? Is World of Warcraft (or any MMO) pay to win? No, don't talk shit.

        This x9000. Ignorance is bliss. For some though it's easier to talk shit than do the proper research.

        Last edited 26/11/14 10:53 am

        Yeah except they had content at release..

          Icing on the cake - easier for you to talk shit isn't it :)

          Hahahahaha WoW had content at release? It had gigantic expanses filled with two dozen enemy models resized and recoloured, and 200 quests of the same half a dozen variations, it didn't have a raid for months and months, then when it did it was broken for months and months. It's nice to look at it with rose tinted nostalgia but it definitely had bugger all when it launched.

          That is hardly the issue though, amount of content has absolutely nothing to with being "pay to win", and you're clearly showing you're just band wagoning to hate on the game.

            No I am just sick of giving company's like activation a free pass to remove content as day 1 DLC or have huge patches because the game wasn't complete at launch. If you like the game fine but I am done with getting incomplete games.

              And that is completely your right as a consumer, but that doesn't mean the game is something it isn't.

            Are you kidding? WoW's content was only sparse if you didn't bother to read the quest text. There were unique story-lines there, IF you read them.

            And you can reduce it down to 'go here, kill that,' if you like, but if you reduce it down to that level, then ALL games are pure repetition. As far as games go and by the standards everyone reasonable measures by, it was unique. WoW had literally months of unique content to level through before you could hit cap, and that's even just on one character. Rolling the opposite faction introduced entirely different storylines to explore, not to mention the half-dozen different starting zones for all the various races.

            You can argue if WoW's content in vanilla is like an ocean or a lake, but Destiny's by comparison is a bathtub.

              Except Destiny isn't trying to be WoW, yet your defense of WoW is read the quest text to expand the content, yet I'm sure you are a big fan of Destiny's grimorie system, which is the same thing, expand the content by reading. More to the point content was never the point in the first place.

                Then why did you compare it to WoW? Or any MMO? No-one else brought it up.
                You can argue that 'content was never the point', and that's true - the original point of Destiny as pay-to-win is indeed bullshit, the guy is wrong.
                But when you bring up content and try to claim WoW didn't have any, that's also wrong. Dead wrong. Especially when Destiny compares so very poorly. It weakens the point you were making instead of strengthening it.

                And yes, read the quest text because that's how it was delivered. In-game. A slightly more engaging alternative to a bored actor reading it to you.

                What story content Destiny delivered in-game was paltry, and honestly, after reading a couple thousand grimoire points worth of external out-of-game lore background, there wasn't any narrative content there, either. There were tiny vignettes of little to no consequence, which - again - were completely eclipsed by the out-of-game background filler on offer for WoW. There is a HUGE difference between a game delivering its narrative and the external availability of background lore.

                Destiny is what it is. Not what was promised, not what was expected, not what it could have been, and arguably not what it should have been. And it's OK to claim that there's an evolution still yet to take place, similar to other games (MMOs notably) which evolve over time as well, but the comparison isn't great when content-wise, Destiny has delivered the first chapter of a book and aims to finish the book in ten years time, but most MMOs deliver the first book, then aim to finish the series of books in ten years.

                  I brought up WoW purely as a comparison point of expansion packs raising the level cap, which is what Destiny is doing, and then the content of WoW (and the otehr examples I made) and Destiny was compared.

                  I'm sorry you are using the same thing to tick WoW up and strike Destiny down, no matter how it was delivered. WoW had terrible content at launch by comparison that most games launch with since, it was pretty good at the time because the whole genre was still very new, but saying in hindsight WoW was fine for content is just nostalgia bullshit.

                The 200 quest figure (100 each faction) is actually a myth.
                That was a pre-alpha design goal which was expanded upon by beta to the point that quests ended up about 600-750 per faction, with numerous new storylines per each questing hub, with 1-2 hubs per zone, of which there were over 40 distinct zones (most of which with unique biomes), compared to Destiny's 3-4.

                Content was NOT vanilla WoW's problem. It's problems were massive launch issues of servers being down or with queues for days at a time. You can look at any wiki if you'd like evidence of the hundreds of unique quests with actual separate storylines, but in summary it's not nostalgic bullshit that there was a fucktonne of content, it's provable fact.

                Your easiest indicator is probably the loremaster achievements for each of the Azeroth continents, at around 700 quests per continent of pre-expansion content required to complete the achievement.

                At any rate...
                If you value narrative in a video game (which it would seem a staggering number of reviewers and consumers do, if scores are anything to go by) then yes... you would up-tick WoW and strike Destiny down for it.
                Comparing shooter apples to MMO oranges, WoW vanilla does do in-game story better than Destiny, but even compared to MMOs of the day, WoW was a leader in story. WoW is pretty much credited with the revolution of story/quest-driven levelling compared to the 'move to area and grind next best-yield mobs' method of the MMOs that preceded it, and one of the reasons it exploded the popularity of the entire genre. There's nothing incongruous about that at all.

                Meanwhile, Destiny not only can't compare to MMOs, but can barely compare to any modern shooter's story delivery. Even CoD, while shorter, has set-pieces, characters who react to your actions, and provide some kind of context for your actions, similar to the acclaimed shooters coming out alongside it. It's a shorter narrative of higher quality.

                Narrative and content are not Destiny's strengths.
                Destiny's strengths are amazing shooting, mobility, and gorgeous environments.

                As long as people know what to expect, this shouldn't be a problem. No-one bitches about TF2's story. But TF2 didn't spend a couple years and millions of dollars convincing everyone it would have an epic one. That's where a lot of these grudges are coming from, spouting the 'pay to win' bullshit that you were refuting above.

                I'm just saying these things can be argued without resorting to false comparisons or accusations about other games, or trying to pretend Destiny's good at something it's not.

                Last edited 26/11/14 1:35 pm

    Ugh I couldn't get past the 51 second mark of that trailer... :/

    I actually really enjoy the game, but there's still that sense of that they ripped the guts out of it to split the game over 5 releases + multiple DLC's.

    The more I think about this trailer the angrier I'm getting. Am I too old? No... It's the children who are wrong.

    Trailers where the character addresses the audience and talk about the game as a game are almost always cringe worthy. I think Sunset Overdrive has been the only one that managed to get it right, and a large part of that was because it fit the tone of the setting.

      Sunset Overdrive drove me batshit in that regard, so I think it is a personal preference thing. This trailer though... is just horrible.

      I really wish Bungie had just made a new IP that had a great single player campaign and a great multiplayer segment. I'm not in for Destiny, all it does is make me want a new game that would shake up the world like Halo did.

        Man I hated that Sunset Overdrive trailer.

        The whole “we’re cooler than the competition because we made fun of them and used a swear” strategy always makes me cringe.
        It always reminds me of the super-rad early 90’s “Sega does what Ninten-don’t” commercials.

        Also this Destiny trailer is so god awful it’s hard to comprehend. Whoever is in charge of the overarching vision for Destiny should get another job.
        It’s a “10 year plan” with a “lord of the rings scale story” that’s thematically retarded and has no story whatsoever.
        It’s taken them all of 2 months to go from the grandiose rubbish I just (poorly) quoted to “get loot, bro!”.

        I thought some of the sunset overdrive trailers were obnoxious, expected to be annoyed by it in game but I actually found I enjoyed it's humour in game. I actually laughed and smiled at certain points and thought it was fun to play something that didn't take itself seriously for once. Was a big surprise for me because I was expecting to hate the dialogue based on the ads.

    See I guess it's not really following the "pay to win" model because the new content will boost the light-level cap to 32 (I think) as opposed to the current 30 and that brings higher levelled items that enables you to beat the higher level more challenging content. It's not like you're buying the DLC just to beat the current content or anything like that.

    Pay to win would be if you could exchange money for extra strange coins so you could afford more exotic items and buy boosts to level them up faster, or ascendent materials to max out the items faster.

    Some people are complaining about "sitting on a pile of ascendent items" already (while i'm scraping together enough across all three of my characters to max out just ONE of them) so I don't imagine that will happen anytime soon.

    I guess ascendent materials are easy to get when you can actually run the raid multiple times per week and score multiples of thetop-tier items. I know Bungie want to make their raids a challenging endgame feature and crow about how it needs a co-ordinated team but it seems to me that you can pretty much muddle through it, or at least you could until they slapped patches all over it to make it needlessly difficult.

      Well, I'm thinking it could screw up Iron Banner a little for those that eschew the DLC, but I'd still not consider it pay-to-win considering the effort you still need to go through to get the gear for those extra levels. I don't see it as being any different from a WoW expansion (ignoring content quantity) - you pay for access to higher level content and the levels to tackle them.

      On your point about muddling through the raid: it seems to me that the VoG in normal mode teaches you the mechanics of the raid; it requires teamwork to get through when you're all 25-27, but above that, it's fairly forgiving if everyone knows how things work. Hard mode is where teamwork really comes into play - even with 3x29 and 3x30s last week, all of whom know the raid more-or-less inside out, losing one person would mean a probable wipe. Last night we had 5x30s and a 29, and we could usually hold our own for a little while if two people went down, but we'd still get overwhelmed before long. You need to coordinate to keep each other alive in there, cos if someone goes down (and they're not a sunsinger), they're down until either the next checkpoint, or the team wipes.

    I liked their original idea that hung around until some time near the beta.
    You kept playing after 20, you earned motes of light (like you do now).
    Those motes were then used upgrade armour and your light level.
    I think they are looking at a similar system in this DLC with some method of upgrading current gear to higher levels.
    It would have stopped the current 30 elites. Hell, there is even now a split between those who got 30 through the raid and those who got the Iron Banner armour for 30.

    29 for life.

    I was an early adopter of the game and I felt genuinely excited about its 'potential' and the fact that it was in the 'capable hands' of Bungie...

    The months have ticked over and my compulsion to play a game I initially felt really passionate about has gone from hero to zero unfortunately. My biggest complaint is this: the fact that there has been nothing else but grinding for weeks and weeks. And that's the thing, I enjoy grinding....if it gets you something...but in the case of Destiny it's like drawing blood from a stone. This would be bearable and mindless fun if there were other pieces of interesting content to mix things up during a play session. But there isn't....

    I realize I'm not saying anything new here, but I just needed a moment to mildly vent my frustrations. Gosh I wanted to love this game and keep loving this game...but.....

    And NOW this!? I feel kind of dumber for watching the trailer.

    I....I might have just been turned off playing Destiny from here on.

    But in the spirit of full disclosure, I'll admit that I kinda almost half smiled at the "I didn't get this from no stinkin loot-cave....well, I got some other stuff from there...but not this".

      The loot cave gag was money. I admit.

        As much as I dislike farming, I do hate RNG for drops to upgrade my armour (level) so much more. I've been on level 29 for at least a month now running hard mode raids each week with no luck.

    Yeah think I'm done now. Did the raid twice last night with two different character for ascendant materials and chatterwhite. Can't believe how long I've played this game to still be stuck at level 29.

    What's the issue with their DLC? I haven't played destiny but is it different from WoWs expansions where you get new content, new level cap and new items?

      Part of the criticism it has drawn is that the DLC zones seem to already exist on the disc and been finished, but were locked off so they could sell us the additional content later. Plus the game heavily recycles old areas in each mission/strike already, so there's going to be very little that's "new" apart from story developments/cutscenes.

      Not that I mind, I think that the criticism is a bit unwarranted, but for people who've been critical of the game since day one I guess it feels kinda damning.

        World of Warcraft had a Mount Hyjal zone (that you could exploit into) for YEARS before that raid ever appeared.

    Oh god it gets worse. How is this a Bungie game. It has gone from train wreck to a game for idiots. Groan!

    Maybe I’m just being the party pooper here, but I think it does say a lot about how Activision and Bungie are marketing the game, and the audience they’re hoping to retain. It reminds me a lot of Call of Duty trailers over the last three or four years.

    I actually feel that this trailer (which is like the 2nd or 3rd trailer for this expansion) isn't aimed at the existing audience at all. I played every day from release up until I had to travel interstate for PAX. I already have the expansion pass that was included in the "deluxe" edition, and I'm still playing regularly, so I don't really need to be sold on the idea of the expansion - I'm already looking forward to new items, a new raid, and new levels. I think that the "CoD vibe" is completely intentional, after all, this is Activision and they sold people this game and then sold them a new CoD about a month later, and now they want to make sure they get as many of them back as they can. And then I'm sure that there'll be a CoD expansion not longer after that, and so on.

    The previous trailer had a lot of developer "commentary". It still felt a lot like a sales pitch, but it was a different perspective on the new content - especially regarding design philosophy for the new PvP maps.

    I'm actually going to put this down to age, or age groups. I'm going to assume that the 93 in "DrCrispy93" refers to his year of birth. That makes him a full 10 years younger than me. It's pure stereotyping, but I think that speaks clearly to the way people from different generations approach the same game, or even gaming in general. You're a few years older than me @markserrels (right?) but I'd hazard a guess that it's not so much that we have wildly different approaches to the discovery of games. I can clearly recall that the primary method for deciding if I wanted a game or not was by how cool the box looked. Our websites and YouTube channels were magazines and word-of-mouth.

    For me, the first trailer is the equivalent of reading the box in store. There was some nice flashy in-game stuff which was the cool front cover that made me pick it up, then there was some devs talking about what they put in it, which was the back of the box blurb and quotes. This second trailer is not for me, it's for people that grew up on the internet, whose "back of the box" is Let Play's and YouTube personalities.

    Yeah, I'll get the DLC. I have run the raid twice, but never beaten it. Have all legendaries and exotics but no immediate compulsion to farm items and upgrade past 27. Perhaps some new content is what the doctor ordered...

    Or, I could just play Dragon Age: Inquisition, seemingly forever.

      O.o You have all legendaries but only bet the raid twice, at level 27? Maaaaaaaaaaate. RNGesus smiles upon you.
      Hnng DA:I. This is distracting me from Destiny currently.

      Last edited 26/11/14 11:28 am

        RNGesus indeed! I was sitting on level 24 for ages, then - boom. Got an exotic from Xur, a couple of dead orbit items and some ok legendary primaries in the space of a couple of hours.

        Since then, it kinda fizzled...

      I know this isn't the point of your post, but it wouldn't be possible to have all exotics as you can only receive such items as the Vex Mythoclast from finishing the raid on hard by beating Atheon. So I guess to mildly inspire perhaps, there is more weapons out there to get if you felt so inclined :p

      The reason I continued to farm and level up was really to be more helpful in the hard raid. Which is then to get better weapons. And therefore also to perform better in Crucible/Iron Banner. But I have stopped playing as compulsively as before, to complete daily missions etc. Routine now is, Weekly strike, Nightfall, Raid and some bounties.

      But yes, DLC will definitely freshen things up a bit. Looking forward to it.

        Oh, hey. Sorry. Poorly worded post. I don't have ALL the exotics, just ENOUGH. One gauntlet and a sweet sniper rifle.

    I kinda gave up on Destiny. Hearing that the 'Dark Below' was the 'Expansion' being released, and the fact that unless you got the pr-order versions, you're then paying for that content, makes me sad.

    The dark below is not a lot of content. It should be added to the game as a free of charge content patch. If WoW made you pay for every raid it has ever released, I can guarentee that it would've died a painful death a long time ago.

    An expansion, in an MMO sense should comprise of (In my view), a few new zones/levels, some new things to do (IE new factions, or storyline content) and some new raids and dungeons. To me this "WOAH DUDEBRO IT'S A NEW RaAAaAAaaAaaAAAAID! PAY ME $20 FOR ROUGHLY 1 HOUR OF FUN! RADICAL!" is shameful both for the game and for the genre as a whole. It's not CoD, it's an MMO, something usually based around having lots of things to do and achieve.

    My two cents. I'm unlikely to play anymore, after reaching 26 a week or two after release. If people are happy to pay $20 each time Bungie adds content that should be free, and be happy about it, then I guess all the more power to them.

      That is exactly where Blizzard set the bar. Each expac has exactly what you detailed, new zones, raised level cap and factions. I'm hoping that Bungie is working towards that and that they're just currently still recovering from their Rocky start. I'm most likely going to keep getting the expacs for a year and see how it goes in the hopes of them recovering. So far they've listened to the majority of people both on Reddit and their own forums, so the community interaction is there.

        @markserrels , Not sure if you're aware of all the cuts that were made a year before release, but reading the thread that I linked previously might give some insight as to why Destiny may seem 'holey' here and there.

      Dark Below includes:

      3 new PvP maps
      1 new strike (2 if you're on a PlayStation)
      1 new raid
      new level cap
      new items (Rare, Legendary, Exotic)
      new story missions + new bounties (apparently the introduction of "quest" bounties)

      I'm fairly certain that there's going to be more than 1 hour of content there.

        I wouldn't really look at 'new PvP maps' as a huge inclusion. Maps, with rehashed objects from the game do not take long to make (Especially with no NPC's to write pathing for).

        Strike missions again, not a very large amount of content (You finish those pretty quickly...)

        The raid is probably the most amount of content in it. Again, it's not particularly large and the fact that the base game doesn't include this raid, and has only 1 raid itself is disappointing.

        Level cap...that's not content, sorry.

        New items, how many? I'm going with roughly 10 - 15, not a lot.

        I was unaware there were story missions, if so does it actually explain anything in the story or just go with "YOU'RE A SPACE WIZARD HARRY". Also; how much story content are we talking? A few extra Dinkbot lines?

        I'm happy to agree, more than an hour (Even though the hour thing was used to drive a point and was not ever implied to be factual) of additional content, though in saying so, does it justify the title of "Expansion", and is it worth $20? Personally, I'm going with no. The base game should probably have most of the content mentioned above, especially the raids. WoW, among other MMO's, has atleast 3 main raids per segment or expansion. 3 at a minimum. NOTE: I could use another MMO, but WoW is just more commonly known.

      A point to note: WoW charges a sub fee on top of the initial purchase, Destiny does not. So even WoW's patched (ie, non-expansion) content doesn't come "free" per se, as you pay for it with the sub. Expecting Destiny to release a bunch of extra content for no charge whatsoever is hard for me to rationalise - the only thing I can come up with is the underwhelming amount of content in the original game... but I've got over 180 hours out of that content thus far, most of which I'd consider time well spent. I think that's pretty good value for an FPS.

        While a strong arguement, I don't think you can really relate the subscription fees to the content of the game.

        Consider this; If you were to be a new player to World of Warcraft, you currently pay $73 roughly (This is in a retail store, and does not include online pricing) for the game as it stands and all prior expansions. You then have access to all of the content released in those xpacs. You do not need to pay the ten years worth of subs since the game came out to access the content. Additionally the raid content, model files, etc generally shipped with the game or expansion, you could essentially purchase the expansions towards the end of the lifecycle of each and have access to all of the content held within it, and only paying for the month of play it would require to run through that content.

        Personally, to me, when I pay subs for WoW I'm paying for usage of the many many servers it utilises as well as the patches implemented to maintain the game. Not the content itself (That's what I pay for in the expansions).

          I would have to assume that Bungie would, in a years time, include all of the previous (or a couple) of expacs as standard whenever selling Destiny to a new buyer. It's currently what Blizzard does with WoW - or last I knew. When Cata came out, they were selling Vanilla and BC together as a pack. Then with Mists, it was WotLK added to that pack. I would like to think that Bungie will do the same thing.

          I believe that with the extra $15 a month that you're giving them, you're giving them the ability to keep coding and making these raids and instances that you see in the game. Seems that Bungie is just tackling the issue from a different angle - and somewhat odd angle to a majority of people.

            My argument was never regarding whether Bungie would do this or not, or even about why Blizzard does this. :\

            My point plainly was that the content is paid for in the expansions, not in the sub fee.

          Fair point, however you can't deny that there is a perceived value there. People consider WoW's sub to (at least in part) go toward continued development of the game; Destiny notably doesn't have a sub fee, so I don't feel it beyond the bounds of imagination to see they need to pay for ongoing development by other means. Which is why I feel it is fair to include WoW's sub fee when comparing the value of the two. WoW funds ongoing development through expansions and sub fees, Destiny is doing it purely through expansions.

          As far as WoW's initial investment cost for a newcomer, you're paying for access to all that content - for a short time. You don't need to pay the ten years of subs to access it for two reasons - a) the development on that content is already paid for and complete (for the most part, at least), and b) you're not expected to be able to see it all before you need to resub, anyway.

          I remember starting and subbing for 8 months back when BC launched, and struggled to hit 40 in that time (admittedly, in part due to WoW at the time being a brilliant soporific :P). I hear levelling is a bit faster now, but I find it hard to believe that a month is sufficient to see everything in the past ... what, 5 expansions? Realistically, you'll be re-subbing or leaving with an incomplete experience - there's no middle ground. So, from the consumer's perspective, your sub is paying for continued access to the content. From Blizzard's perspective, it's paying for server upkeep and continued development on everything in the game, regardless of what you paid to access and what you didn't (eg. if you buy the base game and eschew WoD). I appreciate that you rationalise your sub and expac purchases separately (you're far from alone in that regard), but I really doubt that Blizzard likewise delineates its income streams.

          All I was trying to say with that was that the sub is an inescapable part of WoW - without a sub, WoW is nothing but a fancy login screen. Your $36 WoD license is useless without the $14 sub to access its content, which is why it gets bundled together in a $50 box. Thus, the sub has to be accounted for when considering the overall value of the game. You can't separate the two.

            Wait, 8 months to hit forty? Uhm. Even back in BC, 40 should have been achievable from moderate play in little over a month or two. That would have been some next level 'taking it slow and easy'! I can attest to slow levelling and seeking out the world, I just don't think that can be based as argument towards not seeing the content in the game. To be fair, you could probably see most of the content within a month, it would depend on your playstyle, how engrossed into the lore you want to get and whether or not you want to play the content how it was intended to originally be played (Goodluck getting 40 level 60's in fire resist gear to do MC...Fire resist gear don't even exist no more...)

            But I digress, to avoid having a repeated back and forth till the end of time I will just leave it at this. I personally felt Destiny was lackluster in terms of content it released with. I knocked most of it over in a couple of weeks of moderate play (I haven't done Vault of Glass admittedly). The fact that the game has been out for only 3 odd months now and is releasing an expansion, just sends off alarm bells to me, especially if the game is supposed to have a longevity of ten years. Considering the expansion is more of a DLC than an expansion pack. To each their own, buddeh.

              Fair enough. I didn't play WoW religiously - maybe 6 hours a week - but every time I logged in felt like a struggle. I'll not chronicle my myriad of problems with it, but safe to say that ultimately I didn't see another 6 months (and the $80-odd sub fee that entailed) as being worth my time or money.

              I also agree that Destiny's content at launch was a bit on the light side, but having done the raid upwards of 20 times, and had a blast in recent weeks figuring out how to tackle hard mode, I can kinda see what their goal was - they wanted people who only have a bit of spare time each week to not feel like they're missing out by having less time to devote (hence the short run to endgame). As a result, everyone that exhausted all the content in the first week felt slighted, and it's likely why the first raid came out so soon after release, and the cacophony of patching that's happened to it since. As for the "expansion"... I still don't see it as such. It's DLC - it's only an expansion if you compare it to the content in the base game - new story missions, 2 strikes and a raid is pretty much an extra 40% of the base game... more, if you consider how much time I've spent raiding vs everything else. :P I now drop in once or twice a week to raid, maybe the odd daily or weekly mission to level my gear, and that's about it.

              Aside: I feel we're talking from polar opposite experiences - I've never played endgame WoW content, and you've not done the VoG, so perhaps we're both speaking from positions of ignorance here, and I don't feel either of us will convince the other without that missing perspective.

              I'll close by saying thus on why I spoke up: there's no niggling voice in the back of my mind saying "you're tossing money away if you're not playing" when I feel I need a break from Destiny. Ignoring an MMO's sub fee misses that small pleasure, the freedom to enjoy other games without thinking "I could be making progress in [MMO]."

              But, yes, to each their own, and let's leave it at that. :)

    Pretty sure Destiny was targeted to a 'different' (to me) audience than originally intended right about the mark that their lead writer left and the narrative was simplified to a bullet-point list of 'The Darkness' leaders to assassinate to zero fanfare.

    Rumoured 'Halo + Mass Effect' storytelling reduced to something a half-increment above the storytelling we used to see in Doom-clone Heretic. Only instead of exposition via load-screen/story-card, it just gets read out to you like a bedtime story by a similarly-sleepy Dinklebot, whose emotion-chip must've been fried so that he sounds either alarmed and panicked or bored in completely the opposite situation where it would be appropriate.

    Why? Because who cares, let's shoot stuff, bring your friends, bro. (Don't try and make any in-game, it's borderline impossible.)

      (Don't try and make any in-game, it's borderline impossible.) Really? I've found the community is great. I've found some pretty decent people that I run content with every week. My clan helped run a deaf guy through VoG a month ago and still help him which is pretty neat.

        Lucky you for taking a chance on a random invite. I friended a guy who was tossing out random invites to people doing patrol in Venus, as well. He was the only one I ever saw doing this.

        The 'community' in-game that I've seen is that one random PSN invite, and a bunch of people gesticulating at each other wordlessly in the Tower, expressing their inability to casually communicate by dancing it out instead.

        The forums are fine, but they're not in-game. I'm talking about when you bump into people in the 'shared world' or the 'social space' of the Tower, not on Reddit/ OTHER games don't force you to leave the game to make casual acquaintances, or make it difficult to team up temporarily with easily-expressed intent.

        It's a far cry from what you'll see in MMOs. I really wish Bungie had pulled some strings with Activision to let them borrow some Blizz devs. So many design mistakes could've been avoided with a little help from the experts.

        (Edit: Funnily enough, the closest I saw to impromptu in-game communication and cooperation was the loot cave. Which Bungie acknowledged and praised, while patching it out and replacing it with... nothing to inspire similar cooperation.)

        Last edited 26/11/14 12:06 pm

          Point taken - the lack of in-game communication is indeed great. I can't agree enough with you with borrowing Blizz devs. You woulda thought that they would have asked. I recall reading somewhere on Reddit that a Blizz dev commented saying that a few of the things that Bungie was doing with Destiny is bad for the players (or something to those lines).

          If you're wanting someone else to run the content with and if you're on PS4 gimme a yell - my PSN is Terrakah. Willing to run Nightfall, weeklies and raids if you need people to go through them, can probably get a group going for ya for the VoG as well mate :)

            Thanks for the offer, but I'm already done. My friends and I had VoG on farm by our second week, and we've run it every week ever since (it's the only thing I've done since the first few weeks of launch) to the point that I am now entirely burned out.

      Well to be fair, I've gotten more random friend requests when I've been online with destiny than I've ever gotten with any other game in my entire gaming history so people are clearly trying. Very, very trying in fact...

        Indeed. I wouldn't disagree that the way to obtain party members/friends was not done very well in the game itself. But the third party websites created and forum searching tools turned out great. I have added at least 30 new buddies since playing which we get together with every now and then for different events and they reach as far as London, New York, Germany, and all around Australia.

        Quite amazing for me.

    Well I really hope I can return my pre-order for the expansions...

    Haven't played it in over a month. Have lost interested.

    Waiting for GTA on PC in January. Most friends are on PC's these days.

    It's quite clear a lot of content has been held back to make more out of DLC. Also, with work & family my gaming time is limited. I don't want to spend hrs & hrs replaying the same strikes just to have the privilege of replaying the raid again and again just to level up.

    I don't mind the trailer. I can definitely see them angling for a Guardians of the Galaxy type vibe, and while it falls flat, as long as it doesn't become the dominating tone of their communications, I'm happy to write it off as a novel, cutesy way of getting a point across.

    It probably could've been a bit shorter and snappier, but it got the feature list across and looked kinda pretty.

    This said without much investment, of course.
    I'm heavily burned out on Destiny, having finished the story content in two days, grinded out gear and levels while desperately hoping for more for a few weeks, and settling into a once-a-week routine of raiding with friends, which has eventually started to feel more like an obligation and chore than fun social event, so I've stopped that, too.

    I anticipate devouring the story content within a few hours, running the new strikes at least once each, and possibly raiding if the guys either don't have a replacement for me or I can easily find a new team. But I won't lose any sleep over not being able to get in there. Raiding's some of the best part of the game, but it's not really why I usually play games. I signed on for an epic story, which never manifested, so Destiny's an 'also ran' for me and my priorities, an object lesson in waiting for reviews.

    I guess I have not hit the annoyance wall yet..

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