A Whole Lot Of People Don't Want Dark Souls PC To Use Games For Windows Live

Close to 19,000 people have signed an internet petition demanding that publisher Namco Bandai release the upcoming PC version of Dark Souls without Games for Windows Live.

The petition, which roughly a bazillion people have e-mailed to Kotaku since Dark Souls: Prepare to Die was revealed last week, asks Namco to replace the much-maligned Games for Windows Live platform with a more convenient service, like Steam.

GFWL is unpopular, difficult to use, inconvenient, has terrible online support (a key feature in Dark Souls), and is downright unpleasant. After anxiously awaiting a PC release for this fantastic game it feels like a real slap in the face hearing Dark Souls will use Games for Windows Live. We recommend Valve's Steamworks in place, as this DRM is much easier to use, less intrusive, more reliable, and more accepted among PC gamers. Please reconsider the use of GFWL, or offer the game on both services. Thank you for taking the effort to port this game, but for a lot of customers it's Steam or no sale.

While filing a petition on the internet is usually as futile as writing comments on the internet, an internet petition could very well be why Dark Souls is coming to the PC in the first place. So maybe this one will work too.

Namco-Bandai and From Software: Release Dark Souls PC Edition without Games for Windows Live [Change.org]


    I will never buy another GFWL game regardless of what it is.

    Dark Souls coming to PC is a good thing, I will not ruin that over some minor inconvenience with GFWL.

      ^ This

      Guys seriously, GFWL may be abysmally bad but enough to be a deal breaker for Dark Souls?! Absolutely not IMHO. I will get Dark Souls cuz I appreciate the effort Namco Bondai put in to bring this great game to PC. The main reason that they're using GFWL is because it's the most cost effective way to port it from 360 anyway, please don't condemn these guys for that. Many PC gamers asked for this and these delivered, rather than simply ignore, as I'm sure many other companies would. Asking for this then saying I won't buy it or worse - pirate it, you're just shooting yourselves and PC gaming in the foot.

        Its a deal breaker for me. I have track record of ganes not working due to GFWL, and I'm not going to hand over my money on the off-chance the game will work. Obviously 1 in 4 people who signed the original lets get Souls ported petition feel the same way.

          I'm not invalidating your point of view here, and it is a significant number in comparison to the original petition, but as it's not an exclusive group of first petitioners signing the second petition, there's no meaningful link.

            I agree its not an exclusive list, but lets face it - there is probably a lot of overlap. I would assume the developer will take the conservative position and assume it is the same people Obviously I can't prove that, but I my line of reasoning is that anyone who would care enough to sign a petition saying "hey I want to buy this, but not on GFWL" is likely to be part of the subset who would sign a peitition of "hey, I want to buy this".

          Then don't buy it at full price then. As it always has been with PC games, it'll live for many years. All I'm saying is support them for thinking of us where many others wouldn't give a darn

            I could do that yes, but I probably won't. I agree, one of the main appeals of PC gaming is the longevity - I can still play the game in five years. However, I'll need to be able to maintain access to the game, and I just don't care enough about GFWL to maintain a library there the way I do with Steam.

            Also - I'm not here to support them. I'm here to support games I want to play. I signed a petition saying I would buy the game on release (at full price), and they did a cost-benefit analysis. They are not my friends, and they are not doing me a favour. If anything, I'm doing them a favour by admitting I probably won't buy/play it if its GFWL, so they can budget accordingly (or work with me).

            No doubt someone is going to call me entitled. Well I am - I am stating what I think the price of purchase should entitle me to before I hand over my cash.

        Deal breaker for me. I own it on PS3 but was waiting for the PC version so I could buy it again, I'm far more likely to actually finish it on PC. But not with GFWL attached.

      Agree with the captain. A business can operate how they want and GFWL isn't that bad in my books ( although I prefer steam)

    I'm part of the 'GFWL works for me camp' but the news still stang a bit as it may work for me but it does take a bit of work to get it working in the first place most of the time.

    I'd rather pirate to disable GFWL.. And I don't pirate games

    just wait for the xliveless dll hack like was done with gta4

    GFWL isn't terrible at all, what a dumb post.

      Just because you haven't had any bad experience with GFWL doesn't make it a "dumb post".
      I've personally bought ONE GFWL game, which was Bioshock 2 and greatly regretted it.
      Large slow update files with no ETA, random achievements like "YOU BEAT FIRST LEVEL!". These things are obnoxious but manageable.

      The MAJOR problem is when your save files get corrupted like mine did, and from researching, so did many other people.

      Some of my friends pirated Bioshock 2 and started playing it before I did without any of the aforementioned problems and I PAID FOR THE DAMN THING. Since then I swore never to make the same mistake again.

        Yeah Bioshock 2 was my main introduction to GFWL (as a customer) too.
        Sign up, need update, update fail near the end (crashed), have to start process over.
        This happened many many times. In the end I had to manually download the patch, sign into a GFWL account in another application, then run the game, and finally I got it to work (but the moment my connection dropped out, BAM, main menu again).

        All this to play a single player game to try out my new PC.

        As a developer I totally get it, you're talking a little bit of work vs supporting a whole new platform (which costs a whole lot of money to pay people to learn, write, get publisher agreements, learn the back end of the platform etc.), but as a customer GFWL is a massive pain.

        I'm hoping the next PC game I work on we can make the switch to Steam, the hard part is proving to the publisher that they'll make enough money extra to offset the initial cost of setting up Steam.

    I've never had a problem with GFWL, but even if I had, I really think this is past the point of needing to stop.

    Petition for a game, sure. Yay, it got ported.
    Petitioning because the flavour of DRM/online management isn't to your liking? Yeah, no.

    I understand some people have reported issues with GFWL - and a lot of others haven't. That doesn't invalidate it as a publisher's choice.

    Given the whole tone in both petitions, I don't know why From aren't just binning the whole thing. The first one wasn't just "We'd like a PC port please", it was "We wanta PC port because PCs are better and lawl I'd like to play it at 60fps lawl and you should only release it on Steam because steam is TEH AWESOEMS and also it's a port soooooooooo release it pretty cheaply or else NO SALE lawl".

    This one? "Your DRM is wrong everyone prefers STEAM like we told you before, DURR, so port it to Steam and STEAM ALONE or else....NO SALES LAWL."

    I really hope From listen. And release this on Origin with no GFWL.

      It kind of does invalidate the choice if the market won't support it. GFWL has a huge number of problems. I have my issues with Origin, but at least it hasn't had the same save file issues for five years, which MS have failed to fix because they offer zero support.

      Let me put it this way: what if they said they were only going to sell the game in EB. But the nearest EB is 90 minutes away. You may well think it wasn't worth the hassle. You might take your time buying it. Its the same deal here: for many GFWL is synonymous with game-breaking bugs or, even if your lucky, a lot of time trying to get it to work.

      There was a reason why the original petition asked for the release on Steam: it is by far an away the best service available.

      Yeah I disagree with your sentiment here.
      Publishers aren't stupid, they know their customers would prefer steam, it's just that GFWL is so much cheaper to set up if you already have the 360 code in place.

      Petitions like this give the publishers a financial incentive to pay the money to get the developers to Steam set up, and once they do they'll likely not turn back (since they've already paid the initial cost).

      If GFWL is giving 10% of users a problem, that is a significant impact, and we should be working to fix that.

    I've never had a problem with GFWL, but that doesn't mean I don't hate it and avoid buying GFWL whenever possible.

    The interface is clumsy, and a chore to use. Finding what you want when you want it is nigh impossible. The marketplace is extremely limited. I've read quite a bit about people experiencing corrupted save files. Especially when they try to back up or move their save files from the original locations.

    These problems probably wouldn't exist is MS weren't half-arsing their attempts to appeal to the PC market. But they are, so they do. I've had no interest in Dark Souls previously, so unless the game turns out to be absolutely stellar on PC, I doubt I'll be buying it with GFWL.

      I imagine Microsoft will push hard at fixing the platform once Win8 is out (since it has a lot of features even labelled as xbox features), for now I think they're just sitting there, getting their foot in the door, bothering some but not enough for them to worry about.

    I'd say they are using GFWL for cost reasons, I believe it uses similar code to Xbox Live so simple porting the Xbox version code for the social part of the game is easier than rewriting it for steamworks.

    GFWL is useless - My account got password locked and I have tried 3 times to get the password reset only to have the screen "servers are not responding"
    There is no contact number to discuss it with a human - the numbers for xbox live I have called all have no contact numbers or ability to fix the problem.
    So right now I have a GFWL account with several games attached to it with save games, achievements and all other locked in issues that means while I can still "play" them I have no access to the progress I have already completed - worse part is ALL THE GAMES ARE IN STEAM so I already have a system for monitoring the progress and achievements and save games but because I can't get into my GFWL these games are now useless. If I am right in my assumption I can't just create a new GFWL account and use that because all the games CD Key is saved to my password locked account.

      I'd say thay'd be locked yeah.

      Have you tried logging into the site at xboxlive.com?
      The Xbox LIVE and GFWL accounts are the same I believe so if you can sort it out there it should fix it on PC too.

        Yeah I don't have an Xbox Live account I don't own an Xbox - I only have the GFWL account which I didn't want and now have no access to - nor does it seem I have any means of getting access to it - going to try again this afternoon but not holding my breath.

    YEAH i agree with Cymelion!!!, i have nothing but trouble with GFWL so now if i load a game and it says i need GFWL i just cancel and uninstall i dont care how good that game could be.... too me it is DEAD!!!

    I like the idea of GFWL, but honestly the execution is so ham fisted and badly designed that it's kind of asking for this response to any good game being released through it

    Oh yeah, it's DMR sucks too. Just make us happy and release it through Steam.

    I've had a few games on games for windows live over many years and formats/Operating systems, different accounts and hours searching forums for help.

    I have never got GFWL to work the colest i got was making an offline profile for batman. this is a deal breaker for me and alot of other people.

    I downloaded AoE online before not knowing it was GFWL(it was free so i didnt bother researching it too much) and when i saw GFWL I felt ripped off i spent 4gig of my cap on the game. Just to reiterate i felt a Free game was too expensive to have to put up with GFWL. I though well it's been about a year since i last tried it might work now 3 hours later i delete the game in frustration as i couldn't even log in as it kept asking for a cd key(for a free to play game).

    Now if we can just stop Rockstar from stopping us from playing GTA 5 via GFWL, that'd be awesome.

    When I bought Fallout 3, it forced Games for Windows Live on me. And it sucked! I paid for expansions and the thing refused to install them! I went on the forums, I tried every single solution they listed, and nothing freaking worked. I had to PIRATE dlc that I legitimately paid for in order to make the packs work.

    I'm not a scrub, I'm technically proficient, can program and design software, and have been part of a team that made a critical information system for the European Union. My PC rig hit the recommended specs, I had fully patched windows, etc.

    The forums were full of butt-kissing enablers that kept defending and making excuses for a terrible product that seems to have been programmed by devs that haven't finished college yet. When one suggestion after another wouldn't work and my frustration was growing, I started getting more and more "Well, I haven't had a problem. Your computer sucks/you suck."

    From then on, I refused to have anything to do with any GFWL game. I will never purchase one. Screw you GFWL, I have friends that can program something that does everything GFWL does in a month in their spare time.

    Games are like any leisure activity--you always have the choice of doing something else, and while I would have loved playing Dark Souls, GFWL pisses me off so much, I'd rather go with any number of other ways to spend my money to enjoy myself.

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