Every time I see a straight couple holding hands, or kissing, or hugging in public, it’s a little painful.
I’m Liam Esler and I’m gay. I’ve been with my partner for the past eight and a half years, and I don’t feel comfortable doing any of those things. Not necessarily because someone would say something, or do something, but because we become a spectacle for people to react to. I can’t hold hands with my partner walking down the road without being judged for it. And it’s all well and good to say, “Well, just ignore it,” but why should I have to? Shouldn’t it be okay for me and my partner to express even a small amount of affection in public and not be judged for it?
Earlier this year Joshua Meadows and I got together with GaymerX in the United States to organise the first ever queer gaming convention here in Australia. GX Australia is a space where diverse people, women, queer people, trans* people, people of colour and of different ethnicities and cultural backgrounds are actively welcome. Where we can talk about the issues that affect us and hang out with people who are like us. And we want you to be there, whoever you are, because we think you’re awesome, that that you deserve to be acknowledged, and we hope that you can support us.
When I was growing up, games were an escape and an outlet: a place I could be myself without fear of ridicule, anger, or disgust. Sometimes it was an adventure, saving the world with Jak & Daxter. Sometimes it was a puzzle, finding solutions in Myst and Riven. Sometimes it was just fun, a place where everyone was equal and we could all just hang out, like with Crash Team Racing.
Games were always a place where I didn’t have to worry about the real world. That was pretty important to me growing up a gay kid in a small country town near Adelaide, South Australia.
I know that I’m not alone in this. For many people gaming is an outlet where they can be themselves in a world they feel doesn’t accept them. Where it’s okay to be a man or a woman or non-binary, and explore what that means to you in a safe space. Where you can love whomever you want to, and not worry about the expectations of society. Where you can explore your identity, who you truly are, without worrying about what others will think of you.
My parents realised pretty early on that I was different, that I wouldn’t fit in at a normal school. They moved out of the city and to the small, close-knit community of Willunga, an hour south of Adelaide, where I went to a Steiner school. The Steiner curriculum is very arts-focused and fit me perfectly, but I was still the only queer kid. This was the right thing to do, but moving me to somewhere with fewer people meant it was harder to find find people like myself who I could relate too. My parents did a wonderful job making me feel accepted within our family and our community at large, but for a long time, I was one of the only queer people I knew.
I don’t remember a time when I didn’t know I was different. I was always the weird kid, even at a “weird school.” I never had more than a few friends until high school, when I learned to be funny.
Games and their online communities became my refuge. I met many amazing people: straight, queer, trans*, and everything in between- and slowly began to realise that it was okay to be myself, even though I was different. I learned that different didn’t mean I was bad or unworthy. Different was just that — different — and there were a whole lot of other people like me. I wasn’t alone any more and it felt amazing.
I had found my people and we were all over the world. I often wished I could meet my online friends in person, and some I did, but the tyranny of distance is mighty indeed. Even today I still stay in touch with many of the people I met online when I was a teenager. They watched me grow up and taught me many things I needed to know about acceptance and friendship and how to love people who are different from you. They’re as much a part of me as my genetic family.
This is why fifteen year old me could have really used an event like GX Australia. I know that these spaces are important because of my own experiences and also from having countless conversations with others about how important their communities were to them.
It’s true that we have several fantastic gaming conventions in Australia, particularly PAX Australia, which we mention in the GX Australia Kickstarter video. PAX Australia has done some absolutely brilliant things for diversity, and has worked incredibly hard to ensure their event is welcoming to and accepting of diverse people. I’m constantly in awe of the work they do in this field, in their panels, their support of the Diversity Lounge, the creation of the AFK Room, and many other initiatives.
With all this in mind, you might ask (understandably): Why do we need a queer convention? Why do we need to divide, or otherwise compartmentalise the gaming community?
There are lots of answers to this. For me, the core is this: most gaming events, including PAX, are primarily targeted at people who aren’t me. And that’s totally okay! I’m not in the majority, and I don’t expect all things to be targeted towards me. Gaming events are usually targeted at guys of the heterosexual bent, often considered to be the ‘core’ gaming audience. Events like PAX are doing awesome things to broaden their attendee base and make all people feel welcome, but that doesn’t change the fact that those events aren’t for me specifically. And while that’s totally fine, it would be awesome to have an event that is for me.
Over 50% of the population are women and we still have a long way to go to reduce discrimination against gender. Australia, as a whole, still has issues. Homophobia and transphobia are still very common, despite the fact that Australia is considered progressive in these areas. We want to create an event that recognises this, where we can talk about the issues that concern queer, trans* and other minorities that might not concern the broader gaming audience. Where we can hang out with people like us, who are different.
I want a place where, even if it’s only for a weekend, I don’t have to worry. Where I can hang out and enjoy the games I love, talk about them from my own perspective, and hear the perspectives of others who are different too. Because everything around me, down to the pop-culture I consume, tells me that who I am isn’t normal, that I don’t fit the mold of societal expectations. And for the most part, I’m okay with that. I know I’m not the norm. I know I’m different, and I’m okay with that. I think I’m pretty rad, actually, but it’s taken me a long time to get to that point. And many people never do.
I don’t want the world to change everything that it does just for me. All I want is a couple of games I can play, people I can talk to, and events I can go to that actively say, “Hey. You’re awesome, you’re welcome here, let’s hang out.”
Comments
373 responses to “Why Australia Needs A Queer Gaming Convention”
Don’t worry, whenever I see any couple holding up the pedestrian traffic by kissing or holding hands in public it’s painful for me too.
Just like the lollies at school rule, Bring enough for everyone or wait until you get home right………
You’re single too, are you? Damn those couples flaunting themselves in public!
No, we really don’t.
You already are. Stop segregating yourselves.
You would be surprised how little everyone cares about you. I see affectionate gay couples out and about all the time without being harassed.
Why? This comes across as very disingenuous. Is it so you can have a circle jerk i’mavictim pity party? If you wanted to discuss these things, you can already do this at things like PAX, with or without your friends. The benefit to boot is that your plight reaches a wider audience. The only thing stopping you is you.
You’re a gamer. You are the target audience.
Separating ourselves is merely reinforcing that something is weird/off or otherwise concerning about it.
I have to agree. Why segregate? Can’t we all be friends?
We’re talking about a hobby where it’s generally accepted (or at least tolerated) to insult people using derogatory remarks about sexual preference (among others, but they’re not what we’re talking about here).
Literally last night I got called a useless fag in Battlefront for botching my time as Han Solo in a Heroes vs Villains match.
Unfortunately we can’t all be friends yet, but hopefully events like this will have a positive influence on the gaming community and society as a whole.
I’m not sure I’d call people acting like immature pricks ‘generally accepted’, certainly not at places like PAX.
The problem is there will always be immature pricks in any society though, do you really think making LGBT gaming convention (or something similar) will stop that? Sorry, there are immature pricks in the LGBT community too.
I wasn’t really clear with what I meant by “generally accepted”. What I mean is that if a person uses that kind of insult in the majority of video games you won’t see anyone jump up and slam that person for it (or temp ban them). Do it in a comparable setting like a sporting event? You’d be thrashed.
Will Gaymer stop people being homophobic? Absolutely not. But I feel like it has the opportunity to enact a positive change in some peoples’ lives without a negative on others and I think if it has that potential then it should be encouraged.
Quick note: I am sorry if any of the following offends you. However, if you do get offended, then so be it. I am not trying to be anything but a realist in this post, so bare with me.
You are not gay. You are not straight. You are not Bi. YOU are a person. What you do sexually is NOT who you are. Who you are is how you act. And right now, you are acting like a stuck up snob who thinks that having an event for people like you is a good thing. Its not. If anything, you are making your self’s MORE of a target.
What if this was a Straight only event? Or a guys only event? There would be a public uproar over it. YOU would be out in force, on this site, saying how bad it is that there is a straight only event, and how it only serves to push a there view on to people. Maybe it wont be you. But I will guarantee that SOMEONE will say it.
‘Oh, but because this is a gay/trans/pan/whatever only one, then it makes it different’. No. It is not different. It is never different. Equality works both ways. Equality means you get treated the same as everyone else. NOT that you get special treatment for being gay or a girl, like some people seem to think. That is called sexism. NOT equality.
As for abuse online, this person on the internet would have no idea that your gay. NONE. He is treating you EXACTLY the way you want to be treated. He is treating you the same as he would treat anyone else, because he dose not know that your gay. Now, if you told him you where gay, that means you just made your self a target.
If you REALLY want to be accepted for who you are, don’t do the following:
1. Tell everyone you meet you are gay. Not because of sexism, but because not everyone needs to know that you are.
2. DO NOT let your personal biases run your career. Its stupid. If I wanted to read about gay rights, I would not be on a GAMING website. If you want to write about it, that’s fine. But do it somewhere more appropriate. Not everything you write HAS to relate to the fact your gay. In fact, that makes you more of a target, because you keep advertising that you are one.
3. When your online, and I know this is hard to do, as I have trouble doing it my self, but don’t take what people say to you on the net as a personal insult. There some shit head on the net. You should NOT care what they think. Ever.
In closing, I would like to just say this.
You are not gay. You are not straight. You are not Bi. You are a person, just like the rest of us.
It is not that these events are for LGBT+ people only, but that the event is targeted to that player base. Every single other convention, though mostly welcoming, is not concerned with LGBT+ representation. This one is.
I think it’s a good idea. As a gaymer, I’d love to meet people even more like minded than just regular gamers.
To be able to talk to another guy about how much I love Mass Effect and Justin Bieber’s body in the same breath.. Can’t pass that opportunity up!
So instead of that slur would you have preferred “useless c**t”…. same sledge, same idiots doing it, same meaning, different word.
Same meaning? One is a derogatory term for a gay person and the other is crass slang for vagina. The fact that they’re both used as insults doesn’t give them the same meaning.
Also, abusing someone with racist, sexist, bigoted insults isn’t sledging. It’s abuse.
I mean if there’s a little jerk on the other end of the internet saying things like that, their delivery of words are always going to be the worst thing they can pull out of their arsenal…. I wouldn’t take offence to whatever garbage they’re spitting out, it upsets and annoys most of the people who aren’t in the cross hairs as well.
My default online gaming setup is to “mute all” and have a separate instance running for friends voice chat, I learnt in 2004 (through counter strike) that this was the only way to stop idiots.
I used to have a keybind when the chat got particularly vitriolic that would only have the text up for a split second before it faded 😛
I don’t generally get offended by those sorts of comments, but my point is that we should never accept it as OK behaviour with statements like “yep, that’s part of gaming/the Internet”.
I guess my point is that I’d love to see a big push from the gaming community at large to start vilifying those sort of comments, but it never happens…which is a shame because if it shifted from insults to actual sledging you could see some amazingly funny stuff, a la cricket 😀
The reality is, it is part of gaming… and for the past 11 years I’ve circumvented it because noone has a good system of culling it out besides the mute button. I thought MS were bringing out a rating system like uber where you could downvote random people to stop them doing this… haven’t seen anything about it.
It is not “OK” behavior and if I see someone do it IRL I’ll say something about it… otherwise there’s not much more you can do about it when you’re on the receiving end. It’s all the same smack talk and if someone is really suggesting that one word over another is worse… it’s not…. it’s all the same.
I would advise anyone to not read or bait into it and to not take any personal offence to it, it’s usually someone else in taking out their frustrations out on the world… feel sorry for them if anything.
I am assuming you are a straight male?
Yes, don’t see how it plays into anything though?
the problem is Rize that a lot of these remarks, like fag, along with racial slurs and the like are being misused and therefore misinterpreted. im Greek myself, but i have a vast circle of friends who are of mixed ethnicity’s, and various sexual orientations. You’ve gamed with some of us as well.
we drop gay comments, with phrases like “take it up the arse”, or “bend over”, to racial slurs between each other (with the bendover parts a reference to my Greek ancestors experimentation days!), but absolutely NONE of it is ever literal, and we never mean it as a sign of disrespect. its kinda hard to explain but at the end of the day, its just friendly banter.
I totally agree, it may seem highly inappropriate but basically, we are all dicks, and this is how we insult each other. i can see see how it may look from the outside, but anyone gaming with us, regardless of race, sexual orientation, or whatever, is treated the same.
basically i will swear at everyone regardless of who they are, and without any expectation that im going to offend anyone. just like i wont be offended with anything thrown at me…
and at the end of the day, we say goodnight and look forward to our next gaming session!
but yes there are still REAL judgemental, homophobic and racial dicks out there
The fact is, homophobia IS still quite prevalent, and people DO judge. If everyone was like you, then what you said would be perfectly true. They’re not, and that’s a shame. We are slowly moving towards true acceptance, but the fact is we aren’t there yet. It’s excellent that you don’t judge, and I think your heart’s in the right place, but you aren’t right in assuming everyone is actually ok with homosexuals or trans genders.
People judge everything. People need to get over it. It will never change, there will always be a percentage of people who refuse to accept anything at all to do with something. You can only put your grown-up-pants on and move the hell on with your life.
You are not born with an entitlement to being liked, tolerated, or respected; these are things that are earned, and unfortunately there are those who believe that someone being homo or black or super mutant or whatever is a good enough reason on its own to completely withhold that due to their own selfish, peculiar predilections. It’s not going to change.
Yeah pretty much. I’m getting a little sick of everyone carrying a torch when in fact they should learn most people are dicks and will judge you regardless of who you are or what you do.
Yeah things will never change, let’s all just embrace the status quo FOREVER.
Don’t think that’s what he’s saying.
Social equality is never reached because those seeking equality never seem to see themselves as equal.
*Social equality is never reached because those who are already “equal” don’t seem see that others are not.
Fixed it for ya…
No fix required. So far everyone has said gays are fine, welcome, accepted at gaming conventions which even cater to them with the panels….
I think you’re missing the point, Mark, but okay.
That’s literally what you’re saying though:
“You are not born with an entitlement to being liked, tolerated, or respected; these are things that are earned, and unfortunately there are those who believe that someone being homo or black or super mutant or whatever is a good enough reason on its own to completely withhold that due to their own selfish, peculiar predilections. It’s not going to change.”
This is about the willing segregation of one group from another because of a difference. Segregation stymies process. Segregation creates greater issues. Segregation sees women having “differently wired brains” as a justification for single sex schools.
edited. no need to sound snarky. soz.
Okay, so we shouldn’t have gay clubs.
We shouldn’t have award ceremonies that celebrate black music.
We shouldn’t have women’s sporting events.
This isn’t segregation. It’s about empowerment and about people being provided with a space to be themselves. Segregation is a completely different thing. Completely. Segregation the way you’re talking about is about people in a position of power enforcing boundaries. Like, apartheid in South Africa.
This is about a minority group themselves creating a space. This is them saying, actually I’d quite like a place where I can hang out with like-minded people without fear. If queer people believe they need and would like that space, I don’t necessarily think it’s cool to be like NO THAT’S NOT RIGHT. THIS IS WRONG. You haven’t lived in their shoes. You haven’t walked that walk.
Can you seriously not see the difference here?
In addition, I’m almost 100% certain you would be welcome at GX Australia! You would be.
No probs — we’re prob not gonna agree on this. But appreciate the edit (thumbsup)
You understand this isn’t segregation at all though, right? You don’t have to be queer to attend, that’s just the focus of the con. Literally the only people who aren’t invited to this event are dicks. If you are not a dick, buy a ticket and enjoy a good gaming con. If you are a dick, well…that’s a different discussion.
Amazing how differently the same paragraph can be interpreted. I read it as “people are dicks, learning to deal with that will help you get ahead” as opposed to “stay the course and keep it conservative!”
Oh plain text, you’re such a bastard.
No, that’s interpretation. I feel like the level of certainty displayed over the words and intentions of others is a little strange, other people exist and may or may not be stupid. Generally, it’s more progressive, holistic and considerate to take the route of “may not” instead of being so definitive in our demonisation.
I can’t reply to the post I want to, but your next reply here really helped me to understand why they wanted to do it.
Thanks for putting it in a perspective I can understand Mark.
I don’t think so at all, that’s entirely the point. We have two options – drive/support change and acceptance, or accept the status quo forever. Consider when it was socially unacceptable for women to vote. The perception was that women weren’t equal, that they needn’t have that right as they were incapable of making decisions about laws or positions of power. That perception no longer exists, in fact it seems silly now. Yes there are anti-feminists, and in that regard you’re correct, some people will always feel a certain way about things. But the point is that the perception was eventually embraced by the majority, when the majority initially held the other view.
That isn’t the case in Australia yet in relation to same sex couples. It’s getting there, but unless we support this change, rather than accepting the prejudice even though we don’t agree, then of course it stays the same.
This attitude is the antithesis of change – you’re saying it’s always going to be like this, ignore the haters and move on. No. We don’t have to.
I don’t think people are against change, I definitely support it. I will not, however withhold considered criticism just because it may challenge my values. Sometimes stuff I believe in deserves criticism for a myriad of reasons. Sometimes it relates to climate change, sometimes it’s gender equality, sometimes it’s an LGBT issue, sometimes it’s religious etc. I simply don’t think it’s healthy for our cognitive minds to take a back seat to support. I think considered criticism leads to informed refinement and informed refinement leads to greater efficacy and a sense of accountability. It’s pretty much how we learn in groups. We’re all a diverse group, so we should try and progress in a way that enables and allows those of us whom haven’t yet, to actually learn.
Right now, we use a deficit model to fight ignorance, we’re combative, self-indulgent and emotional. It’s nice to simply say “fight the status quo” like an idiot but this leaves out basically, well… everything required to do such a thing. You need more than support to improve the standing of minorities in the eyes of the majority. I understand the role of “empowerment” in the fight, I do. I simply don’t think it ends there. I think that once people have been empowered, there needs to be a continued direction with a clear goal – right now, we have so many uneducated people taking up causes like they’re sports teams, creating this adversarial dynamic whilst not having the skill to engage in clear and informed debate. It all just amounts to noise, sure the prejudiced haven’t gotten a clear message through but neither have you, you’ve simply patted yourself the back and preached to the converted – feels good, adds a sense of self-importance but nothing was accomplished.
People like to empower themselves with notions like “not having to” put up with hate, you’re right, you don’t. I’m not sure how this leads to continually indulging in dramatic statements over an educated, planned, informed and considered approach. If the goal is for every individual to indulge in drama, then yes, this is all cool – if the goal is to put an end to prejudice then you’re not going to find any measured success.
Just going to repeat one of my above comments:
Reverse discrimination is not the answer.
“Reverse discrimination” is not actually a thing. Discrimination is discrimination.
But even if it was a thing, GX isn’t doing that. It’s not turning heterosexual people away at the door, it’s just celebrating a specific part of gaming culture. Events like PAX cover these themes and issues, but it’s not their main focus. And that’s fine, but it means there’s room for events like this that focus on specific things that, as Liam says, “might not concern the broader gaming audience”.
It’s not segregation: everyone is welcome to go!
Of course it’s not PAX’s main focus, because they take the everyone is welcome approach from the start like basically any other ‘normal’ convention. Everyone.
There’s no list at the door inadvertently highlighting one group, or groups, as being ‘more’ welcome than others. No matter which way you cut it that’s exactly what such a focus does, even though it’s obviously not the intent.
I get why such conventions or such exist primarily focused at one group or another. However in this day and age I feel it has a lot more to do with people feeling excluded when they’re actually not anymore; And I absolutely believe such focuses do more to create divides between groups of people than they do to bring them together.
Could you imagine if someone called for a gaming convention with a focus on straight people? Even if it was clearly stated that all were welcome the backlash would be nightmarish.
[edit] Didn’t see thefong’s post below earlier, which basically covers a lot of what I said. Along with making a few other good points that I didn’t.
They wouldn’t have needed their Diversity Space thing, if they were committed to “everyone is welcome” beyond PR.
Exactly, we need to do something about this, like needlessly making a hobby with nothing to do with sexuality all about sexuality. In fact, let’s make a gaming convention, but only target it towards a specific group, and leave others to feel ostracised needlessly. We’ll tell them they’re welcome, but make sure in the description to leave out certain groups, so they’d feel awkward attending something that literally has nothing to do with the reason they’ve been left to excluded.
Changing the status quo, one needlessly politically correct special flower convention at a time.
Alternatively, maybe people could stop pushing their own opinions and agendas into subjects, that, let’s face it, have nothing to do with the point they’re trying to make. Maybe if both sides stop pointing out their differences, and making each other feel out of place, it wouldn’t be so much of an issue to begin with.
Except for us straight, white men. We are almost universally respected for who we are, just because we were born with a white penis.
Couldn’t care less tbh
If people want their own specifically targeted convention, where they celebrate more than a singular aspect, let them eat cake.
It’s literally no skin off my back.
I agree. In the past I’d think it was silly to have a gaycon because gay or straight we are gamers. But if gay gamers want their own show so they can hang out with people who share similiar life choices, good on them and good luck. It’s not mine or anyone elses business to argue.
I think he explains this quite well in the article.
Not sure why you got so many downvotes. As a hetrosexual I agree 100%. No one cares if your gay and holding hands/kissing or talking shite. Seriously. I really can’t see the logic behind why people, who in the past have been so vocal about being treated equal, would actively seek segregation? Whole article comes across as someone suffering from special snowflake syndrome.
It’s not about segregation. It’s about having a space where you don’t feel like an outsider. It’s about creating somewhere to let your guard down.
Imagine living every day of your life where there are assholes that cause you grief simply because of who you are. Sure, everyone has to deal with assholes from time to time but that’s nothing compared to the constant barrage some people have to deal with. Now imagine that you could have be away from that. Not just away from that but in a place where you can trust everyone.
How is that not a good thing?
It’s not hard to imagine. It’s called high school.
Yeah now imagine that following you even after you left high school.
Yeah but do you see any of that at PAX or other gaming conventions? I really haven’t to be honest, if anything I thought PAX bent over backwards to make the convention as fun and safe as possible for anyone and everyone. And I got to play games (win win right?)
Hell, most of us older geeks are just stoked that there are these conventions at ALL compared to as recently as 5 years ago. Why on earth would we want to start splintering off already?
When people make comments like this:
Then yes, yes I am seeing it at PAX. You feel ostracized because minorities want to talk about their experiences? Have you ever considered that people can have a different perspective from yours and talking about it is exactly celebrating gaming as a whole.
I can’t think of a response that won’t make me sound like a bigoted idiot (you’ve probably already judged me as such). I have a problem with people putting walls up around them when the aim of the game is to have fun, which most likely stems from me thinking gaming is still meant to be a fun past-time we can all enjoy together.
By all means people should be able to discuss their situations/experiences in a supportive forum. I’m a bit offended you’re immediately assuming I don’t want people to celebrate gaming that way. This year’s program felt unbalanced to me, that’s all. I was trying to highlight that as someone who just wants to have fun etc, it felt very serious this year compared to the last 2 years I attended.
My poorly worded response which you’ve quoted was merely a “don’t push too far the other way, we should all be enjoying ourselves regardless of creed” but I fucked it up. Ostracized was too strong a word.
I think laughter, sharing experiences and generally enjoying each other’s company with a common bond over gaming will do more to help everyone be more accepting.
I think you needed to step back and think about exactly what you’ve said. Based on your more recent comments, you’ve done that.
I have. I didn’t want to sound as dickish as I did with my original comment. I mostly just sat there thinking “but we do accept you, we do want you to take part” without thinking that not everyone thinks along that same train of thought. We can’t all have it so easy sadly :/
Shouldn’t we be trying to create more environments where everyone feels confortable to let there guard down together though (i.e. at a general gaming convention like PAX) rather than only feeling safe in small groups that are like them?
Progress is easier in small steps.
Progress is best when action has been deeply considered.
That sounds a lot like an excuse not to do anything until it has been “deeply considered”.
*Sigh*
“Safe Spaces”
It seems like there’s an entire generation who is seriously so uneducated they’ve been rewriting concepts arbitrarily with no consideration, research or perspective informing them and a media facilitating ignorance by explicit definition. As someone who’s spent so much time in academia – it terrifies me how closed and transparently defensive people (and even Mark, today) are of alternate perspectives. We all know you don’t learn by silencing, by generalising or demonising – so why is it such a priority that we actively engage in the means that cultivated all of the problems we have now? It’s almost like the definition of the word “consider” has changed without people noticing. Now, it means “legitimize”, because insecurity has overtaken cognition as our main filter to view the world.
To clarify, considering, exploring or acknowledging an alternate viewpoint is not legitimizing it. There’s obviously a massive difference between hate speak and criticism of writing or presentation but we routinely see Kotaku and other publications treat it like it’s the same thing in an effort to show arbitrary support. (since it isn’t educated or considered – the actions required for it to be defined as such don’t exist in the construction of the piece – as a perspective)
Doesn’t this just change the status quo to something else instead of challenging the actual idea? I’m a staunch supporter of the LGBT community and consider myself empathetic and holistic in perspective but I’m also an advocate for critical thinking – It’s exquisitely painful that these qualities don’t seem to be compatible with eachother at this point in time.
To clarify, this is all to do with the narrative conventions used in the article, not the event in question. Totally support it. I’m just not an “ends justify the means” kinda person.
Its not like he walks around with a sign saying I AM GAY. So he wants/needs special recognition as a gay, that happens to be a gamer, im a gamer, and my sexual orientation is noones business
That’s because nobody cares when you’re normal.
I can walk down the street holding my girlfriend’s hand. Nobody bats an eye but we’re effectively displaying a neon sign that says “we’re heterosexual”. A gay couple does the same and suddenly they’re shoving their sexuality down everyone’s throats.
A convention like GX Australia gives LGBT people a space where they can feel normal. Don’t underestimate how valuable that can be.
I never said i was normal…
You’d be wise not to use the term normal, just as an fyi.
Normal is an assumption people make when they see you. You’re part of “us” until you do something abnormal and then you become “them”.
Normality differs from person to person and asshats have a very restrictive definition of normal.
If you’re creating a special space, and purposely filling it predominately with a set group of people, and claiming you need to do so to feel normal, the problem isn’t everyone else, it’s you. You’re literally going out of your way to point out you’re different, then saying you want to be treated the same.
It is a bit, though. Gating yourself off creates an us and them mentality, wherein them (or us or whatever) don’t ever have to even tolerate you, because, well, they’re going to be over there, anyway; it’s nothing to do with us.
It’s not gating off though, you don’t have to be part of that specific community to attend. In fact just about every event like this welcomes people of any preference.
It’s just a celebration of more than one thing is all.
How do you distinguish something like this from something like PAX? In both cases everyone is welcome regardless of their preferences, the main focus of the event is gaming, there’s a mix of attendees of all natures and preferences, there’s security and a focus on inclusion, and there’s always a chance some douchebags will make it in regardless. In both cases you don’t have to be part of a specific community to attend, the doors are open to everyone as long as they’re nice to each other.
I have no issue with gay gaming conventions, I’m just curious where the distinction is drawn in your mind between the two events. Or if perhaps you have insight into why the author feels like he isn’t in PAX’s target audience, which as far as I know is just ‘gamers’.
Easy, one is a celebration of gamers and pop culture and the other is a celebration of gamers, pop culture and homosexuality.
If both welcome everyone then there really is no issue what is being celebrated.
The fact Pax is trying to break down the division in the world of gaming is a great thing, but an alternative in no way detracts from that cause just as Pax itself doesn’t eliminate the need or want of different interest groups to gather and celebrate.
If the author feels something like this is more his thing, then that is his to own and far from me to question.
Does GX celebrate homosexuality, though? The Kickstarter and website seem to be carefully worded to say that it’s about creating a place where everyone is welcome regardless of sexuality, where queer people can feel comfortable but not specifically celebrating any particular sexuality.
I didn’t mention PAX to imply there could be only one convention; naturally alternatives are welcome. I mentioned it as a comparison between what seem to be two groups striving for the same goal, and whether that gels with the suggestion in the article that GX’s approach is necessary.
It’s not about “actively seeking segregation,” but it is about establishing a space where people who FEEL segregated from wider gaming communities on account of their sexuality can meet.
Sure,you may have no issue with gay couple holding hands- that’s great, and it’s a sign that you’re a good person!- but unfortunately not everyone is that way. Even in spaces where nothing bad has happened, the perception is important- the feeling of being in a dudebro, masculine heterosexual space (which is what gaming MARKETING often caters to) when that’s not you is uncomfortable.
In addition, and perhaps also more important, while the games audience may be like that, there’s a very, very legitimate discussion about representation of GLBTI in games and how they’re marketed. as the author pointed out very well. We may not be conciously excluding people, but the industry as a whole isn’t conciously including people (all that often) either.
Don’t take this the wrong way but isn’t that a personal issue? Something that you should try and get help with? It does come off as a bit of paranoia that EVERYONE is judging you and deeming you “insert what you feel”. A good portion of people just wouldn’t care.
It really doesn’t bother me if there is a GLBTI convention for games but where does it stop? Should there be religious ones as well? What about race or ethnicity? By all accounts they get hit with the same “Judgements”.
Would it be a problem if there was? Not trying to flame, I honestly want your opinion.
Me? No not at all. It’s just taking away from the main point of the convention tho – gaming. I just don’t really understand why race religion sexual orientation “INSERT X HERE” has to come into play? Can’t it just be about gaming?
It absolutely can be, and that’s what conventions like PAX are about. In a perfect world all conventions could be about the raw hobby/whatever and nothing else, but unfortunately (to use a hilariously tired phrase) this is not a perfect world.
As an aside, it’s really hard writing replies to people here without sounding condescending or snide…
I think you’re right. The level of acceptance of a particular subset of the world is what I enjoy most about PAX – in this case, gamers. People can get dressed up or sit around playing 3DS or watching people play LOL or spend all day in the board games or miniature painting area or whatever, feeling included and comfortable and completely unjudged. Nobody is going to call them names or snicker at them or threaten irrational violence. It’s amazing and this feeling is the main reason I keep returning.
Now extend that to a smaller subset of society: gamers whose sexual preferences place them in a minority. Don’t they also deserve to feel the same level of inclusion at a large-scale get-together? If you don’t want to go, that’s fine! Just don’t stand around calling them names, or snickering, or threatening irrational violence. Just be happy that both sets of people have somewhere they can be happy.
Sure, people might not feel that way, but that doesn’t mean that people can’t put on a convention deliberately catering for those who do. Hell, no one’s putting a gun to your head and making you or I attend. In an ideal world, everyone would have their needs met by PAX, or EB Expo, or any other convention, but there’s no issue with putting on a specialist convention.
A lot of the comments here (btw, I don’t want to be perceived as just taking a dig at you specifically, because I’m not) are saying “everything is already good,” but if someone doesn’t feel that way, and we want gaming to be a broad church, we should support a con that will let people build their confidence in being a represented gamer.
As for your second comment, it absolutely doesn’t have to stop there. Why can’t there be a convention focused on racial diversity in games?
There’s two sides to this.
Yes, we all like to think that we are inclusive people, and that we don’t care if two guys or two girls show affection in public towards each other, but I don’t think you’re very aware of the stigma associated with being gay.
People do look, people do stare, and people do judge. You don’t notice it unless you’re on the receiving end of it. It feels like you’re living under a microscope at times.
Even just a glance from someone walking by can feel like they’re staring at you for an eternity.
I’m not saying that everyone does this. In fact, most people probably aren’t, but there’s times you can’t shake that feeling, like you don’t belong, because unfortunately most gay people are taught from an early age that they are different. It can make you feel unwanted, unwelcome at times.
So yeah, having a safe space where you can go and be yourself would be comforting to those who aren’t as confident in themselves as other gay people. Slightly segregating, sure, but it’d be better if you were supportive of the event to help install confidence in those who do attend who maybe aren’t so confident in attending regular conventions.
Doesn’t matter what you do whether you’re gay straight or trans tall short skinny fat muscle bound – people will judge you. Society is built around it (hello facebook). At the end of the day people just need to be comfortable in their own skin – stop worrying what others think! If you have issues with it – get help.
Honey, that’s a very easy thing to say when you haven’t been taught from your whole early childhood, and sometimes even into your adult life, that you’re different, and not in a good way.
Getting bullied for being gay, being conditioned to think that you don’t fit in, being made to feel lesser for a large portion of your life over something that you have no choice over.
So what if they, we, occasionally want a place where we can go and avoid that feeling of judgement.
Don’t preach to me.
Not to turn this into a pissing contest, but I have schizophrenia and am mildly autistic. I am acutely aware of what it feels like to be continually ostracised, profiled and persecuted due to a situation outside of my control, and have been on the verge of homelessness as a result. No one is saying it is all roses. I have a support group. I don’t need a gaming convention for it.
With no hint of sarcasm, I think it’s brilliant that you don’t need this gaming convention…but maybe others feel like they do?
No intention to preach. What happened to you is absolutely without a doubt terrible. But it is still something you have to come to terms with. From my point of view segregation isn’t the answer. Your only fueling the notion that you are different – not to be accepted as normal. Having a place where you can go and avoid judgement is fine but do you really need a different gaming convention to do it?
To be clear i have no issues if there is one but i can’t understand the need for it and imo it’s only fueling the exact issues you are having (if people never see it – it will never be considered normal).
Again though, it’s easy to sit there and say that it isn’t needed when you aren’t on the receiving end of the judgement and persecutions.
I, myself, didn’t get bullied. You know why that is? Because I hid being gay. Another shitty thing about being gay that people overlook. Hiding who you are can be just as bad as getting persecuted for who you are. I couldn’t be myself for a good 7 years of my life in fear of persecution. Since I realised at 14, to when I came out at 21. That time sucked. It would have sucked if I came out in highschool too.
So, I’m over it, Sweetie I’m well and truly over it, but you’re damn right that I’m going to stand here and advocate that some people do need it. Hopefully not forever, but right now? People need it, and that’s not up to you to say that they don’t.
You’re confusing “need” and “want”. Nobody *needs* a gaming convention.
Also, how very judgmental of you to dismiss other commenters with that “you don’t know what it’s like” nonsense, without knowing a damn thing about them or the lives they’ve led.
Or a rad group of friends you can have a good time with. That also helps a lot 😀
Thanks. You saved me from typing this.
I have to agree. You want acceptation and validation? It’s sad that it is like this, but I’m afraid that you’ll have to earn it, in the same way that once, that black woman sat down on the seat for white people in the bus. Segregating yourselves, (as much as it will feel nice to be among kindred spirits) will only contribute to maintain this “us and them” status quo and things will never change.
It almost sounds like you’re saying we needed to engage in slavery so black people could earn the right to be human?
uh? How many hoops of logic are you going through? The actions of that woman were necessary because discrimination /already/ existed. Similarly, discrimination against same-sex couples already exists and they need to fight against it.
Only one; there shouldn’t have been a bus just for white people. Equality doesn’t need to be earned; it’s should be expected.
However this is not the case; and as such the communities who are discriminated against should have the freedom and right to congregate where they feel comfortable. They aren’t excluding anyone but they are being clear of the target demographic. Much like a gay bar; is that considered segregation as well?
Look, I’m not saying that discrimination should be the status quo or something to be expected. It’s messed up that it is, but shutting eyes and ears and chanting “this is not how thing should be” is not going to magically make us appear in that superior reality. Sadly, things are how they are and it falls on the shoulders of this generation and perhaps next, too, to change things with your own two hands rather than run and corral yourselves in a cozy, friendly bubble where you can pretend everything is alright. Such behaviour will literally do nothing to change public perception.
To answer your question, I believe a gay club is different in the sense that, like straight clubs, they are places to meet and pick up potential romantic/sexual partners. Having a place of that kind for your own means that you won’t be awkwardly having to guess whether the person you have your eyes on has your same orientation. What would be the benefit of a gay game convention, on the other hand? Don’t you go to those for the games? Wouldn’t such restricted demographic meant that it involves many less expositors and participants? As I said in my first post, the only thing that it would do is foment the “us vs them” mentality some people have.
I’m bi and I still agree with this.
Segregation is not the answer. Sorry Liam but I am a staunch supporter of equality, not reverse-discrimination.
Hey! No need to apologise, different opinions are what make awesome conversations. 😀 GX Australia is welcoming to everyone, including straight people! That’s part of the point. 🙂
Reverse discrimination does not exist. They are not discriminating against you.
exactly this.
Thank you.
I completely agree however i had a discussion about this where the point was made that as long as homosexuals FEEL that they are not accepted then a convention like this was justified. I believe that it would be better to make an effort at pre-existing gaming conventions to make homosexuals feel welcome without drawing attention to them as this would make everyone happy and be a lot cheaper. frankly i think the real reason conventions like this exist is that companies use it to create yet another ‘demographic’ to sell to and in theory make a lot more money.
How does a GX convention impact anyone arguing against it at all? How does it take anything from you in any sense whatsoever?
I take the most common argument here to be that it fragments the community along lines that aren’t particularly related to what the community is about, which is gaming. I’m sure a lot of people agree that the ideal situation would be for the world as a whole, the gaming community and its conventions to not care at all about your race, sexuality or zombification status (the struggle is real), and that we’re not at that point yet, it’s just a question of whether something like this is a necessary small step in the right direction, or if it puts barriers in the way of reaching that ultimate goal.
I’m not advocating any particular argument, for the record, this is just how I’m interpreting other comments here.
See, this is my kneejerk response to the proposal here and for the record, I’m not at all against a gaming con with a queer focus, or intended as a safe space for LBGTQ gamers and enthusiasts. But I just don’t “get” why anyone needs to be anything but a gamer at a gaming con.
Obviously the flip side of that coin is, no, I don’t “get” it. I’ve never had to feel any kind of persecution for my sexuality, and because heterosexuality is the social “default”, that feeling has never pervaded my character.
I don’t see the need for a queer gaming con, because I’m not queer. I like to believe that the gaming community is all-inclusive and that homosexual gamers and couples, and while I believe that a gay couple would have no issue or be considered remarkable or otherwise draw attention at a general gaming convention, I’m just not in a position to make that assessment on their behalf.
So, I agree with you. But I also can’t claim to fully understand what motivated the writer to feel this way, so I don’t want to be dismissive of his views.
I came on to post something just like this.
If you want a Gaymer show, then go ahead and organise it… but I seriously doubt it is NEEDED. Sure, toxic gamers will continue to trash talk about being gay/black/fat etc. They are toxic, not normal. They insult ALL of us and drag down the general image of what it is to be a gamer. Games are fun, so gamers ought to be generally fun loving. Weather that means you are gay/straight/bi or even not sexually preference at all should not matter… should not…but will to the toxic (hopefully) minority.
Also, wide acceptance of homosexuality is still quite new. Woman’s liberation has been around longer and is still fighting to achieve true equality. Give it time.
Either way, I hope you find happiness in what you are doing.
You don’t NEED any number of things that you still feel are necessary to your quality of life. Instead of thinking of ‘need’ as “I will die without it”, think of it as “My life will be significantly improved by its presence”.
Like, say… free healthcare. You can live without it. Many people never have any need for it to exist. But for many people, it means the difference between just getting by and having a decent quality of life. In that way, we all need things we don’t actually need in the strictest sense.
You are very clearly an outside observer looking in and only scraping the surface level of a very deep issue. To say such things is pure ignorance.
Missed the point, huh?
You nailed it! This is everything that I was thinking about reading this article. I was like mate, you’re a gamer, a gaming convention is for gamers. I feel bad that he doesn’t feel comfortable holding hands with his partner and I wish that we lived in a world where everyone was accepting but that’s not the case.
However, I still feel that a queer gaming convention is is bringing sexual orientation into a domain where it would be better if it was left out. When I play online I don’t care if you’re bi, gay, straight or somewhere in between as long as you’re respectful and there to have fun!
well said, 100% agree, this article is lame
Quick! Tell people how they should feel and what kind of social lives they can have! Tell private enterprise how they are allowed to cater to only the markets you deem worthy!
Do it for inclusivity! They are the real bad guys with their weird “wanting shit that I don’t care about” bullshit.
Agreed.
Feels segregated, so then decides that creating an exclusive event for a sub-group of eople is totally the right way to fix that segregation right? stupid.
That is my problem with society right now. EVERY SINGLE equality argument from the masses is essentially flawed, in that EVERY SINGLE argument revolves around the better treatment and less segregation of one group, by performing acts and/or creating changes that ONLY affect that group. Essentially CREATING inequality in one form, to satisfy the inequality of another form. Go ahead and try to prove me wrong on that.
True equality, is when people like that stop thinking that people give a shit about them being gay, and does whatever they want, wherever they want. That is the only way this person will ever achieve equality. By not asking for special treatment, and not giving any to others.
Why do you gamers even have gaming conventions? Why segregate yourselves, you should just have “hobby” conventions that suit all interests, instead of having it be all about you!
Best of luck with your event!
As someone who is completely unqualified to comment of such subjects, id never considered lbgti gamers, as being different from gamers, as its none of my concern who does what with whom.
I feel bad that some humans feel they must have a separate gaming event because of their gender or sexual orientation. maybe i naively hoped that the gaming community shared your sentiment of your last paragraph.
I don’t understand what this comment does to further the discussion in any way
Good luck with your gamer conference. Hope it gets off the ground and it is a success.
Anything that promotes video games, community and the ethos of tolerance and equality should be encouraged.
“Anything that promotes video games, community and the ethos of tolerance and equality should be encouraged.”
I agree, if that’s what this does…
Well, it’s not preaching “straight hate”?
This does not promote equality. To compare to something else, this is a group of boys creating a ‘boys club’ because they were sad they couldn’t join the ‘girls club’.
It’s still an exclusive group.
You’re judging others, saying you find it painful to watch them and then expecting others not to judge you?
For what it’s worth (as an individual straight guy), I couldn’t care less about gay, straight, whatever people holding hands, kissing, etc. Obviously crazy PDA’s make me a little uncomfortable, as they do anyone else but regular affection… No.
I personally don’t see a need for segregation of events, if people are judging others randomly, that seems like a problem they should fix, not a reason to exclude and segregate the community.
I always thought the whole idea of equality was to include and stop treating people like they’re different. Why do people keep trying to exclude instead? I honestly don’t understand how that helps the problem. It seems to me more like it shines a light on parts of the community saying “look, we’re different!” Isn’t that what we’re trying to stop – by saying there is no normal/standard?
Edit: (for clarity) I’ve read some of the other comments here and seen this bit mentioned..
This is really what I’m talking about so I thought I’d mention it here. Having been to all three PAX Aus’ I have to ask, How exactly do you see PAX as targeted at people who aren’t you? PAX is targeted at gamers in general… even looking at the panels, there were probably more equality/social justice-style panels this year than gaming related ones. There was the diversity lounge (as always) and even gender-nuetral toilets. I honestly can’t see how it’s aimed at one gender, sex, race, whatever – more than others…
It’s painful for them because they’re seeing people have what they can’t have.
I know many who have this, “can’t” is a massive stretch – it just comes with more obstacles.
Last I checked it’s still illegal for them to get married? Or have kids? Or have a religion brand their sexual preference as a sin? But hey if all that’s been sorted you’re right “can’t” is a massive stretch. Bad @trjn next time read up on the news before commenting!
Those pesky obstacles.
So we should exclude a group of people because of their sexual orientation? #GaymerGate
No one will be excluded from GX. The entire point of it is to just make it more inclusive to one group.
I’ve been waiting for this article! Now I have something to link people to rather than having to type it all out from scratch.
I am not gay. I have general social anxiety, depression and OCD. I also don’t feel comfortable walking down the street because I feel like everyone is staring at me, or notices the things I am self-conscious about; Even though (logically speaking) they definitely cannot know those things about me and probably do not care. The ONLY place I feel comfortable is when I am playing games or discussing games whilst attending a gaming event. I want to be around people who have the same love of games in their heart. I don’t care if they also love guys and/or girls too. I want to be included in your love of games Liam.
Hey <3 Come along! We’ll have a bunch of panels on mental health, and GX Australia is welcome to everyone. We’d love to see you and hang out 🙂
If you target anything at a certain group of people only, you’re doing the opposite of making it welcome to everyone.
GX Australia is open to everyone, and we’d love to see you! Just like PAX is primarily targeted at your ‘average gamer’, while still working extremely hard to make minorities feel welcome, GX Australia is for straight people too. 🙂
PAX is targeted at Gamers. All gamers, big, small, trans, cis, gay, straight, black, white. You’re the one trying to act like a special little flower saying that’s not good enough, and that you need your own convention. Seriously, what the hell does sexuality have to do with gaming? My brother is gay, he’s been open about it since he was a kid, and we’ve been gaming together since we were children, from the SNES, the N64, Xbox, Xbox 360 etc, and we’ve attended the last 3 PAX’s together. Not once has he stopped and say mid Halo campaign though, “gee, I could appreciate this a lot more if I was straight”. He’s never felt out of place at PAX. Hell, why would he? It’s not like people are running around with signs with their gender/sexual preferences on them, we’re there to play games FFS. I just showed him this article, and even he can’t figure out why there needs to be a seperate Queer Convention.
That’s like saying straight people are welcome in a gay bar.
Sure, it may be technically true, but very few straight people would ever dare to show their faces.
Couldn’t that be said of PAX? Do you think PAX is unwelcoming to non-gamers?
It’s a gaming convention, for gamers. Look at their posters they put up. “Welcome Home”, “A reunion for the family you choose”. If people can look at that, and feel it’s not enough, because it’s not catering to their sexual preferences, then there’s clearly something wrong with them. What the hell does it have to do with someone’s sexual preference to begin with? I spent half of Saturday at PAX this year learning to paint minis, being shown the proper techniques and methods by a really nice chick sitting next to me, her friends and mine ended up grabbing drinks and dinner that night, and we all exchanged steam contact details, and I’d been playing Dota with her for weeks until she mentioned she had to head off after the match, because she was going out with her girlfriend. Til that point, I had no idea about her sexuality, and to be honest, couldn’t care less. Why would I? I made some great new friends, we play games together, and had fun. Why does a hobby with nothing to do with sexuality suddenly need a convention that targets select people based on sexuality?
I’ve got to be honest, this seems hugely counter-intuitive to me. You’re asking for the same treatment as everyone else (which, by all means, you absolutely should have), but then you want to have an exclusive convention that only makes certain people feel welcome (based and what you said, you’re welcoming everyone who isn’t a straight, white male). You even said that gaming is an outlet for all people to be themselves, then complained that even PAX (which is hugely inclusive btw, and had multiple panels this year talking about fostering greater diversity for gamers) isn’t targeted at you specifically, as if you deserve special treatment. If it’s meant for everyone, why would it have to be targeted towards any audience based on sexual preference, or skin colour, or gender identity? Why should it be? It’s a gaming convention. It’s targeted at gamers. Not straight gamers, or male gamers, or any such nonsense as you seem to imply, just gamers. I may not be gay myself, but I hardly see why your sexuality has anything to do with gaming. I’ve played board games, card games, PC games, console games, pen and paper role play, and have been for nearly 20 years, and at no point has my sexuality had any affect on any of those. How does who I, or who anyone else is attracted to, have anything to do with playing games? All that creating an exclusive event, that only makes certain people feel comfortable in does, is further create a larger gap between who you consider normal and different. You’re literally making the larger issue at hand worse.
Well said. The article is doing my head in a little. I actually felt a little overwhelmed by the panel choices this year as they were all so focused, I felt ostracized from the convention because all I wanted to do was play games and celebrate gaming as a whole. Why do we end up getting so many political/social movements now being attached to gaming? It boggles my mind when people want to be included but they think they don’t feel welcome. Don’t stand on your soapbox, get in there and have a good time. We’re not all arseholes in this world. Some of us just want to play games 🙂
EDIT: @trjn pointed out my middle paragraph makes me sound like a bigoted c**t. I’d just like to point out I in no way thought any of the panels should NOT happen, just thought the balance was very much towards bloody serious topics this year compared to the previous two PAX’s.
Come on @trjn, talk to me about it. You have well thought out ideas, much more worthy than just a downvote 🙂
And you can go to PAX and just play games! It’s great!
But the truth is is that games can’t, can’t be isolated from the rest of society. As a still in many ways nascent form of culture, there’s a very important discussion about how gaming does fit in to political and social movements.
Do we want to stand as a gaming community that’s a monolith and unchangeable, where all games are white male protagonists who shoot aliens, or to celebrate and cultivate a diverse and fluid gaming community? One where we can explore social issues, or discuss representation, or games as art, while all the while STILL being able to shoot aliens and drive cars?
I put my dollar down on the second option
After reading the comments for the last 2 hours I’ve definitely changed my tune. It’s always a case of “but why the hell would you want to make yourself stand apart even further?” Now I can see why. I’m a social gamer, so anything that brings people together for a good time is right up my alley.
However to Trnj’s point, that’s just one way of looking at it. People get a lot more out of gaming than I do so more power to them 🙂
Gamers want games to be considered art but there are already art and entertainment expos, why do we need PAX or any other specific ‘gaming’ expo. They have some panels on interactive art, showed some games, there isn’t any reason for a specific ‘video game’ specific expo.
This is the same thing on a smaller scale. We prefer to go to a specific video gaming expo as that is our primary focus, rather than a wider arts and entertainment expo. We can mingle with people who we understand more closely, and can naturally associate with due to common ground.
Others may prefer a gaymer focused event where they can discuss games freely and with the scope of understanding.
Just things like saying that people using gay terms as slurs in chat upsets them. At PAX if you discussed that with random people you met you might get a bunch of ‘It’s harmless, grow up, just ignore it, etc….’. At a specific gaymer focused event you are much more likely to get a more understanding reaction and a more fulfilling and nuanced discussion.
That’s actually the most succinct argument for it I’ve read so far. Everyone gets fired up and launches into a retort instead of doing what you’ve just done.
Cheers for this point, much easier to understand when you think about it like this.
This is a really good analogy, Tigs. Nice one!
Not inconsistent at all to say that people should get the same treatment, but right now they don’t, and until that’s fixed at the broader level it’s helpful to carve out spaces where good behaviour is more explicitly required.
(Liam was also pretty clear that anyone, including straight white males, is welcome – the only thing that’s unwelcome is harassment. If you feel that an explicit rejection of anti-queer harassment is an attack on straight white males, you should probably think about why that is.)
Despite feeling like much of what was said in the article was manipulative and insincere as well as containing many instances of appropriation (as defined by the conventions of the English language) – I’ll support it gladly. Mostly because my friends who identify as homosexual aren’t this ridiculously self-indulgent.
Well that’s nice of you. The Kickstarter is linked to in the article!
I do often speak about queer issues in non-queer spaces, and have been on a multitude of panels @ PAX Australia over the last couple of years! PAX is wonderful, and as I mentioned they’ve done a huge amount of outreach and some amazing work to make everyone feel included.
That said, the majority audience for PAX isn’t queer and diverse gamers, it’s straight gamers, and primarily dudes. 🙂 Both Penny Arcade and PAX Australia have been hugely supportive of us, but that doesn’t mean we’re their core audience.
We’re creating GX Australia as an actively inclusive space, where the target audience is queer and diverse people.
I’m glad that you’ve seen queer couples being affectionate in public, that’s fantastic. I wish that were the case for all queer couples, but the reality is we have a whole lot of homophobia, transphobia and racism in this country, whether we’d like to admit it or not.
It’s important to have spaces where you can talk to people who are like you about the issues that you both face. Yes, we can do that at conventions like PAX – and we do! But it’s also important for minorities to come together and have a conversation without fear of being ridiculed – even if it is just a fear, and not a likely reality.
“a whole lot of homophobia” ?
Haven’t seen it, not for years. I think I must be very lucky in the company I keep.
Yeah I had to check myself on this recently when I sat there going “I don’t get why people say there’s an issue with misogyny in Australia…” And then I had my eyes opened to the utter douchery that people think is acceptable behaviour towards women. It… hurts my brain. I think I have been very lucky as well to have always had loads and loads of family and friends throughout my life who have been part of the LGBT community.
Consider yourself lucky that this is the case!!
I am lucky. In my working life I’m surrounded by straight, gay, black, white, christian, muslim, Iraqi, Indian, Afghan, Chinese, Japanese, Saudi and all things in between. Some have stories that would shiver yer timbers (particularly from the middle-east).
Everyone’s the same and most people are just trying to do their best.
I am HEINOUS jealous 😀 Unfortunately it’s something I see pretty regularly, even in Melbourne!
I thought we were pretty much over racism when I was in my twenties, until a point where I moved, changed my routines and job, and was suddenly exposed to it everywhere. Slurs I thought had died out twenty years ago, being used vehemently by teenagers on public transport.
Definitely lucky in the company you keep.
Yeah, see, this is wrong. The majority audience for PAX is gamers, that there happens to be more straight male gamers there is purely statistics, as there is more of them in general. Ever heard correlation does not imply causation? You’ve made the huge assumption, that because something happens, in this case more straight people attending something, they’re the target audience, and completely ignored the simple fact that there happens to be more of them, so there’s obviously going to a be a higher percentage of them in attendance. You’re still avoiding the reason you’re choosing to almost segregate yourself to talk about your perspective on games. What does gaming have to do with your sexuality at all? Have you somehow felt left out, or not included at anything at a gaming event based on who you want to bone? Because I couldn’t possibly see what that has to do with anything, unless you’re going out of your way to make it a problem.
What utter nonsense.
You like men or women good for you.
You don’t walk around with signs proclaiming your sexual preference, diseases, fetishes, likes, dislikes etc why even create this segregation and labeling?
We’re all human and just because others like the same sex I dont see why they just cant attend the same conventions etc.
Guarantee this is only possible in western cultures where political correctness and woe is me attitude rules the day.
Ok, yes if you are about to be jailed for being gay or thrown off a high building by ISIS, it is a bit difficult to organise a video gaming convention. But in western liberal democracies we have (and need to defend) the wonderful rights of tolerance, freedom of expression and equality. I don’t see what is wrong with a group of people from organising their own community event.
So you don’t see an issue with people creating exclusive events intended for members of that particular group of people, in the name of ‘equality’?
because I do. It’s not equality, it’s actually the opposite. It furthers segregation and is by nature, discrimination.
Don’t hold hands with your partner. Don’t kiss them or look at them affectionately. Don’t express an appreciation for the attractiveness of video game characters that are the same sex as you. Because if you get harassed it’s because you were walking around with a sign proclaiming your sexual preference.
video games don’t need politics and bullshit.
you go to these events for the video games not to dicuss gender issues etc
Go find a public forum or a gay group to talk.
“Finding a gay group to talk” seems to be exactly what Liam is doing. I’m glad you’ve come around to seeing it his way.
People keep wanting video games taken seriously and yet we keep seeing this.
I think the first two paragraphs are pretty much applicable to any public display of affection regardless of orientation. We’re still a relatively prudish culture and one that is pushed to be politically correct in everything so even simple displays of affection tend to make people titter and talk in hushed whispers to the person beside them. Not only that, if you’re single, or getting over a break up, or any other number of personal reasons then seeing someone doing something that you can’t do or are jealous of is always going to make you uncomfortable and pained.
These kinds of articles are always a little confusing for me as I try to separate out the difference between a convention that focuses on LGTBQ culture and games and one that merely encourages only an LGTBQ audience to attend. I think this is where a lot of the “Why are you segregating yourselves?” comments come from as well as people conflate the difference between target audiences and primary audiences. In any case, it’s great that games have become big enough to allow us to start seeing these specialised conventions, though the motivation behind it shows that the gaming community as a whole still has a long way to go.
Having a big ol’ pash on a street corner makes people feel uncomfortable regardless of your orientation, but you’re not going to get randomly abused for walking down the street holding hands with your opposite-sex partner (and if you think that doesn’t happen to same-sex couples because you don’t see it, then lucky you, but you’re wrong).
Imagine if a straight person asked for an article dedicated to their discomfort with homosexuality and a ‘no gays’ event?
Come on. This shouldn’t even be published.
This comment is inane.
Liam isn’t made uncomfortable by heterosexuality; it’s ‘painful’ because it reminds him of an openness and a freedom that he may not be able to enjoy as a gay man. He isn’t begrudging straight people their PDA’s or events or whatever, he’s lamenting that he can not feel similarly free to act as he chooses.
Secondly, this is not a ‘no straights’ event. It’s an inclusive event targeted at a different demographic.
This event in NO WAY would affect you or your life. The article was published clearly to try and raise some awareness for those people to whom it might make a difference.
It’s not all about you.
Bullcrap, the OP hasn’t in any way elaborated in his post examples or specific situations of incidents at game conventions specifically that have led him to feel uncomfortable enough to the point of warranting a ‘queer friendly’ event for gamers.
This is a plight faced in every day life, I have a uncle who is a teacher and he is gay, he has been discriminated against getting several roles in his industry, but i haven’t seen him asking for a ‘queer friendly’ school to teach at – you know why? Because in the real world ultimately people get on with it – just like OP should.
No, actually his comment was spot on.
If it’s okay for a gay person to complain about straight people events, then it should be 100% okay for a straight person to complain about gay people events.
Why?
BECAUSE THAT MY FRIEND, IS TRUE EQUALITY.
Which is one simple FACT that most of modern society ignores. You chose to focus on the ONE SIDE of the argument which is socially popular, and ignore the one that isn’t.
SERIOUSLY?
So you mean, like how ALL gaming events are targeting the GAMER demographic????? OP complains about how PAX and other events are APPARENTLY targeted at straight male gamers (even though there is no official declaration of this) while at the same time, openly and officially declaring that GX is targeted at homosexual gamers. Do you not see the problem with this argument?
exactly
I feel that if you started a queer gaming convention you’d just be doing more to separate yourselves and create more division.
Also you say “Shouldn’t it be okay for me and my partner to express even a small amount of affection in public and not be judged for it?”. That’s not a problem with society, that’s a problem for you and you alone. Everyone is judged, it doesn’t matter if you are kissing a man, walking around in a steampunk costume or just eating your lunch in a public place.
I personally don’t give a flying f*** if people show affection in public regardless of whom you’re showing that affection too (unless it’s illegal). Stop caring about the thoughts of people you don’t know and will never meet and just live your life.
I also think that what we try to create in gaming conventions is a place where we can come together and celebrate our similarities, I think that limiting entry to one group of people does the exact opposite of that.
target audience is LGBTQ+ gamers, but that doesn’t mean that entry is limited to them. it’s mentioned that it’s open to everyone, except for harassers.
This would probably be a lot easier if there weren’t so many people willing to share those thoughts loudly, directly and even violently while you’re just trying to go about your day.
I am completely boggled at the extremes of opinion in the comments. I can confidently say that if you feel you need this event: go nuts. I’m not offended, I’m totally supportive, and I don’t feel ostracised, but, more importantly, as a male, heterosexual, middle class, moderate-liberal, red-blooded Australian, this event would have zero impact on my day-to-day life. Just as the Diversity Lounge took zero enjoyment away from me at PAX.
And I’d get used to that feeling of being judged – it comes with the territory of being South Australian (see also: Collingwood Supporter).
I’m sorry, but there’s absolutely no place for Collingwood Supporters in gaming.
Get out.
Best comments in this thread.
he has absolutely no place being from South Australia and being a Collingwood supporter either….
I am completely boggled at how I present grounded logical intelligent argument based in the idea of EQUALITY, and then everyone ignores my argument and calls me homophobic or other stupid names.
So in other words, I either openly support the topic, or I keep my mouth shut. Those are the only two socially acceptable choices.
As long as gay/bi/trans/other people are welcome at standard gaming conventions like PAX, and as long as straight people are equally as welcome at Queer Gaming Conventions…
Who gives a shit. The more gaming conventions the better.
Just no more bearded Sailor Moons at EITHER please!
It is very confusing to see sailor moon costume only to go past and see it is a guy with a beard, gross! I hate beards!
*starts growing a beard just for @weresmurf*
*eagerness to shave ashigaru with a quarry excavator intensifies…*
As a straight dude:
This is sausage to me.
Just for this, I am going to wear a Sailor costume and find you.
lol!
I don’t think we need to segregate various groups, people just need to learn that the sexual preference or identity of someone else doesn’t effect their own life in anyway.
Unfortunately there is, and always will be, a large group of people who do feel threatened by the lifestyles of others and drag them down at any opportunity, and to some of them a large gathering where there is an increased chance of like minded individuals to back them is the perfect place for them, in their mind, to dispense their bullying.
I think a queer gaming convention is a great idea in that it provides a safer place for LGBT+ gamers and cosplayers to enjoy themselves without the constant worry that someone might harrase John because he cosplays as Snow White, or that Erin and Lisa are holding hands and kissing while waiting in line.
I would attend it, and probably feel more comfortable, or as comfortable as I can around any people regardless of who they are.
This article… doesn’t seem right.
First off, I’m a gay, white male, and I don’t agree with segregation of a gaming event. Why? Because I’ve never felt judged or persecuted for who I am, at a gaming convention. You want to talk about games from your own perspective? Then, well… do it? Do you think every other minority thinks twice before discussing a video game? No. At least, not that I’ve seen. That seems more like an internal personal issue that you need to sort out yourself, rather than blame everyone around you.
The victimization just seems quite self inflicted… You dont feel like you fit in at a gaming convention (notice that its not a STRAIGHT gaming convention, or a WHITE gaming convention, just a GAMING convention. Read: FOR GAMERS), what do you expect from an LGBTQI gaming convention? To be applauded upon arrival?
I dunno. I guess, if you NEED a separate convention to highlight your minority, sure… But I don’t think its doing anything progressive at all. In fact, I think it’s doing the opposite. Nobody looks at interracial couples with the stink eye, nor do the opinions of other races mean any less at a video game convention. I understand why females may feel more comfortable with a female gaming convention, with how the community can be at times, but as a gay male, outside of the “git gud fag”, you hear playing generic online FPS of the year, or the casual “thats so gay”, when something unfortunate happens like it’s meant to be derogatory (which I’ve noticed society as a whole is getting better at stamping out), I really don’t feel victimized at all from the gaming community at large.
Isn’t Gaymer about trying to talk about games via a shared perspective?
Agreed.
ITT: A whole lot of folks offended that someone would dare to organize an event targeted at a specific group that isn’t them. *sigh at humanity*
Nailed it. So badly.
We shouldn’t need events like GX Australia. We shouldn’t need for any sort of community subsection to rally around themselves to start their own event so they can feel welcome, because they should feel welcome at any event. But apparently there is a need for it, and I have no right to refute that claim.
I don’t see how an event like PAX Australia could been construed as unwelcoming to certain people, but at the same time I’m not one of those certain people. I can’t sympathise with anything Liam has written, and that’s why my opinion on an event like this, positive or negative, means precisely fuck all. I can easily say we shouldn’t need an event like GX Australia, but that has no effect on whether we actually do need it or not. If he says we need it, we probably bloody well need it.
All the best Liam, I hope it takes off.
Just watched and read the pitch… I don’t know, maybe I fell asleep mid-sentence or something, but can someone point me to the “absolutely no straights allowed” section that everyone’s getting ‘segregation’ vibes from?
Hahahahaha!
I like it how you comment on the people who are making fun of other people in the comments, but ignore the vast majority of other people who are discussing it without any kind of hate.
I think it’s more that people are not crying out they’re excluded from the event, they’re wondering why people would willingly hold an event which, from the outside, looks like they’re segregating themselves from the rest of the gaming community.
As it turns out, there’s a pretty damn good reason for it.
Can sum-up pretty much every perspective on issue like this with the phrase
“Why do you care?”
“Hey straight friends! We want to see you too. GX Australia is for everyone! <3”
– GX Australia’s Twitter account, just now
pft.
It’s at the exact same place in the pitch for PAX Australia and other events when they say “ABSOLUTELY NO GAY’S ALLOWED”
Oh, the “yeah, some of their jokes are vile, definitely their fanbase, but we’re associating with PA for brand recognition” clause.
Forgot about that.
Hmmm… Much controversy.
I’ve always found the “Gaymer” thing a bit naff… but having said that, some of the horribly homophobic slurs that get thrown around during online multiplayer may lead people to splinter off into these groups so they don’t have to be exposed to this sort of vitriol.
I think alot of the commenters here are not considering that even though they may be open to other sexualities, there are still plenty of people that aren’t. Don’t just assume that because you have good values and are decent that everyone else is.
People are tribal by nature and it’s normal for us to gravitate towards people who are like us.
Honestly, it’s easy to see that most of these comments are written by straight white dudes.
No matter how okay with it you, your friends, the people you know are – homosexuality is not comparable to heterosexuality in how ‘everyday’ it is. While you may not be openly heckled in the streets, that lingering feeling of being judged, being treated differently or scared that your sexuality is an excuse for someone to threaten or otherwise make you feel unsafe is ever present.
Liam is not suggesting an event that is exclusive to the LGBTQ and trans* community. He is suggesting an INCLUSIVE event that is targeted at those communities, that they can feel safe and a very welcomed part of – a way that they may not feel at other general conventions.
This is no different to there being gay bars/clubs. No one is forcing you to go in, and no one is stopping you from going in. They’re open to everyone to enjoy, but they are made with a specific community in mind so that that community can feel safe and amongst their own. It’s not about excluding anyone, it’s just about making people feel welcome and safe and free of judgement.
This is not ‘reverse segregation’. It’s simply an event made with a specific group of people in mind.
Hey! Don’t make it too easy for people to write off your comment.
Otherwise you got it on point though. Especially with comparison about the bars/clubs. I also wanted to add that doing this kind of focus on specific communities isn’t just about providing a safe space, it’s also an easy space. These are still minorities we’re talking about. I can’t speak for them but I’d wager that actually just meeting people who share the same traits is hard enough, even in a tolerant and accepting society.
Ding ding ding! I want to like this again just for the “straight, white male”.
This is not the same as an inclusive event. ANY event that is organized with a specific community in mind, is not an inclusive event.
An inclusive event is one where all communities are invited to join. There is not one part of mainstream gaming events that says “this event is for straight white male gamers, but gay/ethnic/female gamers are also welcome to join!!!”
This is exactly what ‘reverse segregation’ is.
This right here.
Is one of the biggest problems with equality in the world. It’s almost impossible for both sides to engage in equal conversation, because one always tries to act superior in some way. I don’t know who you are or what kind of ideology you subscribe to, but the moment you started to call the majority of commenters “straight white dudes” is the moment you immediately lowered any possible credit you had, and any legitimacy you had to engage in an intelligent conversation.
A lot of people using the word segregation. Not a lot of people seem to know what it means.
This convention is not a LGBTQI only event. It is an event predominantly focused on those people and, as has been pointed out, people who don’t fit under the LGBTQI banner are welcome.
Segregation is keeping groups of people apart. This is not that, it is simply an open event catering to a specific demographic just as many events (both gaming and non) do.
The fact people are getting bent out of shape over this is a wee bit concerning and I humbly request that those who find the concept of GaymerX problematic do a bit of soul searching to work out specifically what their issue with it REALLY is.
Its implied by the very title of the article. “Why Australia Needs A Queer Gaming Convention”. It’s implying segregation that by being gay gamer you have to have a “special convention” which is more tolerant but of course everyone is welcome. Imagine a different title on that where there have been been similar issues “Why Australia needs a RACEHERE gaming convention”, “Why Australia needs a RELIGIONHERE gaming convention” etc etc.
But that shouldn’t be a problem even with *insert race* or *insert religion*. The events would be able to stand on their own.
Hell, PAX for instance, can be attended by non-gamers but really who is it really for?
It’s not a problem per se but is it really necessary for religious, sexual orientation, race, what ever else to be a focal point for a gaming convention?
No. But there’s also no reasonable reason to avoid it either.
Like…
Is it really necessary to all go together to a church to worship together? No. But people like coming together in their like-like communities.
*Edit*
Actually to be reply to your question, a church-run baking event would be better. As you say the religion shouldn’t be the focus, but indeed it will because that what the community asked for.
Except that GX is a convention that everyone can go to. So, you know, not actually segregated at all.
Except that there are already numerous gaming conventions that everybody can go to that aren’t exclusionary like a queer convention is.
Gaming conventions should be about gaming, not about who you have sex with.
Hmm, let me try writing out a different perspective, because that’s an excellent question: “Why should gaming conventions be about sexuality?”
The answer is that gaming has a whole lot sexuality in it. The vast majority of games we play feature a white, heterosexual protagonist (usually male), who is interested in (and often pursues) women. Look at every triple-A title over the last 10 years, and you’ll see this almost without exception.
PAX is (primarily) for that audience. It’s for the majority audience, who ARE straight, who do identify as that character. And other people, who aren’t straight/white/male play those games too! So PAX is also for them, as ‘gamers’ – but not as explicitly.
As a gay dude, when I walk around PAX, there’s a crapton of imagery that is straight by its nature, and so the culture is primarily for straight people. And that’s awesome! Because straight is the minority. I don’t want everyone to change every event just to cater to me, that’s totally unrealistic and silly.
What we can do is create an event where that isn’t the case, where, for once, that imagery and culture isn’t straight; it’s diverse, and for everyone. 🙂 I hope that makes more sense!
How often is that sexuality brought to the forefront tho? I don’t go searching for sexuality in games and to my mind most RPGS are very accommodating now. Is it just because it probably wouldn’t sell as well? I mean ultimately it’s a numbers game right? It’s the same with ethnicity and race – what do the majority of our consumers relate too.
Examples? Whats considered straight imagery vs gay. I can’t help but think of the typical tropes – rainbows puppies my little pony etc when you say stuff like that. I honestly have NFI.
This says more about your sex drive than it does about games in general. But thank you for speaking for me and telling me what I spend my time doing in game.
Final Fantasy, Star Wars: KOTOR, Fable, Mass Effect, The Last of Us, Dragon Age, GTA, Fallout, Elder Scrolls. There’s just a handful of games you can play which have homosexual themes and/or allow you to play as a homosexual protagonist.
And the vast majority of games I play feature an Asian, female protagonist. Except for Fallout 4 because for once, I’m not playing through as my girlfriend.
Man, this whole straight versus gay thing is so last century. What I really want to know is, as a gay man, what is it you do when you play games that is so different from how “straight” people game?
How is it exclusionary? If the speakers are interesting, why not attend?
We’ll attend both.
Yeah, I hate how I can’t go to tabletop gaming conventions, just because I’m not a tabletop.
Take a look at the comments section.
This is why we don’t feel comfortable around straight people sometimes.
“I’M TOLERANT”, they scream, while also saying, and I quote:
– “You would be surprised how little everyone cares about you”
– “Is it so you can have a circle jerk i’mavictim pity party?”
– “People judge everything. People need to get over it.”
– “You are not born with an entitlement to being liked, tolerated, or respected”
– “Doesn’t matter what you do whether you’re gay straight or trans tall short skinny fat muscle bound – people will judge you”
– “If you have issues with it – get help”
– “You want acceptation and validation? It’s sad that it is like this, but I’m afraid that you’ll have to earn it”
– “What utter nonsense”
– “Come on. This shouldn’t even be published”
This is why I don’t want to sit with some of you.
These comments are no different to “No offence, but…” and “I’m not racist, but…”.
If you need to begin your statement with “I’m not homophobic, but” or any variation thereof, chances are you are contributing to the problem, not helping.
I’m not homophobic, but damn it I love cheesecake…
who the fuck doesnt love cheesecake!
Lactose intolerant people… Perhaps we need a Lactose Free Gaming Convention.
I’m pretty sure most lactose intolerant people I’ve met still love cheesecake.
They don’t love what happens afterwards though 😛
I too like to cherry pick brief parts of sentences, then twist them to serve my own ends.
You do get that your comments are offending gay people right? You’re literally being the very person that gay people feel they need a convention for?
The feelings of others are of little concern to me.
Yet you’ve spent the better part of a day commenting on this article impacting how people feel? Do you understand what irony is? Or do you only have a issue with the freedoms of others?
That or you just like trolling and are bored on a Monday. In that case a very well played troll indeed.
I have commented on the article about how I feel, not out of concern for how others feel.
How you feel as I’ve read is you don’t care or want to know about shit others are going through? I applaud this philosophy. I hereby extend it to you.
More or less, yeah.
Then why are you making a big deal about how people feel about a gaming convention if you don’t care?
I have commented on the article about how I feel, not out of concern or for any real desire to discuss what others feel, though that is kinda what it turned into in a way.
Yeah I hate people when they say “we accept you”…..
Utter bastards. How dare they not care if you’re gay.
These are poor quotes to use IMO.
Too many of them sound negative on their own without context so they can’t be used as reference point for interactions with an entire group of people.
Also changing the context will actually validate some the statements.
I did my best to pick quotes from the posts that were negative, as to not invalidate them, or “cherry pick”,so to speak.
I read every comment (at the time), and tried to avoid quoting people who may have had a bad sentence in a generally positive post, instead focusing on the negative posts, which there are ample to choose from.
Of course, there’s always human interpretation of the posts in question, so what I thought may have been negative might not have been to some one else.
Okay so without getting stuck into the story yet – what Australia actually needs is a gaming convention in Brisbane please!
I am fat and I also feel as though people look at me when I hold my wifes hand. I feel as though people are judging me and wondering how a fat bloke like me can get a wife/partner.
Being fat, I also feel as though people judge me when I eat in public. I used to refuse to eat when I was out to overcome this.
Both of these problems were overcome when I realised that most people don’t care what I do and the ones that I do, I don’t care for their opinion.
Feeling as though you don’t fit in isn’t that unusual. You don’t need to be gay to understand that feeling. Most people have something that they worry about people judging them on. Getting over this and moving on is a judgment of your strength and confidence.
I still get upset when people judge me and usually soften the blow by judging myself harsher than most which doesn’t help with depression…. essentially what I am saying is that we all need to just get along and accept others.
I wish that was essentially what you were saying, but you’re not. You’re literally saying “get over it”.
Surely you can consider the possibility that your solution doesn’t work for everyone?
Where did I literally say get over it?
I never said my solution works for everyone. I never even said I had a solution.
“Getting over this and moving on”
The comment needs to be taken in context. You originally incorrectly quoted me as saying “get over it” but now you are quoting half of the sentence and changing the meaning of it, but you also said, “Surely you can consider the possibility that your solution doesn’t work for everyone?” when I never said that I had a solution.
It’s funny you mention having a wife when as a country we believe homosexuals should not be allowed to get married.
This might seem like a disconnected reply but I wanted to use it to establish how disconnected being overweight can be to being a minority that doesn’t have a choice in who or what they are.
I don’t agree with that. I think as a country we believe they should. I think the politicians of power won’t allow it for fear of losing votes. I expect that to change as they realise it will gain them votes or they put the decision to vote so they can choose to go with the majority and secure the most votes.
I do understand what you are saying with your “disconnected” reply and am not saying that I disagree. I understand being gay is not a choice but I don’t choose to be fat but I do choose a life that has me that way (I have always been fat, even as a baby) even though I am actually pretty fit and exercise a lot more than the average person. I don’t really think I am explaining myself well in this post but just understand that it should have been awesome.
Having a gay version of an event seems silly to me but that is because I don’t understand why a gay person can’t enjoy a non sexual preference classified version of the same event and I wish they could. I do believe that having a separate gay event will cause more conflict than good.
HEY GUY! You should feel bad about having a wife yo!
Yeah. I guess I should take a stance by not getting married as gays can’t.
No just feel bad about yourself…
You must only spend time in the cities then…
Isn’t that where most people are?
No. Most Australians live in the suburbs…
City of Melbourne: pop 100,000
Greater Melbourne: 4,000,000,000
Big difference there champ.
Thanks for calling me champ. I do consider myself one but it isn’t often recognised.
I took your initial cities comment as being Melbourne as a city, Sydney as a city not just the main business centres that has little population. Now I know what you are classing as a city I can say, I don’t live in a city or spend more than a day or 2 in a city per year so I spend my time in the greater community and most people I encounter support it so maybe you only mean redneck towns???
I didn’t mean to sound patronising. My bad.
Do people in the suburbs really support social issues? Having lived both in the city and the burbs, I can’t say that I agree. I agree with you that many people say they support these issues but their actions don’t support their statements.
Problem is that allow the rejects of suburban life – mentally ill, lgtbi, drug addicts, etc – are straight out disposed of and end up sleeping on my doorstep. Which is fine by me because everyone deserves a place to sleep… So long as it’s not in the suburbs because I’ll call the cops and have you removed.
I don’t know, maybe I’m to urbane 😉 but for the most part what I overhear from suburban people largely consists of intolerance, bigotry, discrimination and double standards.
This’ll be 2nd page buried but I have to say I’ll be a proud fence-sitter when it comes to the comments here. I can understand the concerns and rhetoric of most parties here and can agree and disagree on what’s being said. Simultaneously I think this whole GX event is a fine thing and could really only do good in the end: doing its job as an inclusive side-story to regular gaming events, or eventually ending alongside the greater community’s widening tolerance and acceptance.
That may sound trite and a waste of a comment to say so, but what I’m trying to say is that it’s ok to have conflicting opinions on and about the same things. It’s a good thing that we can do that, and not pigeon-hole ourselves into any specific rigid way of thinking – especially on complex topics. Everyone here who is genuinely exploring the issue without prejudice is right in their own way: it’s true we don’t need GX and and it’s also true that we do need GX.
*Edit*
Also even though the article started with a ‘Why’, it is not a question so the answer was not automatically ‘no’.
Don’t worry, I still read it 😀
I could just imagine a Nine News story on a queer convention, it would be as cringe worthy as all their stories that cover the LGBT community or gamers, but combined. There would be coming out puns, pride humour and nerds out of their basement jokes. Makes my skin crawl thinking about it.
Better yet, a Current Affair. Tracey Grimshaw would lap it up…
or even worse if it were still around.. today tonight
Stop, the pain is more than I can bare ;_;
Deals with perceived segregation and exclusion in society by creating an event which segregates and excludes society. You’re part of the problem.
GX doesn’t exclude anyone.
Neither does PAX.
THIS ISNT TAKING AWAY FROM PAX
THIS IS ADDING TO IT
MORE GAMING CONVENTIONS
BUT WITH TIGHTER FOCUS
i am a electronics nerd, i enjoy electronics websites but i really enjoy HAM radio websites? Does the creation of the HAM radio website take away from the electronics website. No its just more content.
Jesus man, stop just freaking stop.
Whoa whoa whoa… You taking HAM radio stuff away from ElectronicsEvent2015? DUDE. NO.
If he fixes it, cures the issue…
Is it a Cured-Ham Radio???
Well I’d much prefer that to first one I made with a short circuit. Smoked-Ham radio is not the best 🙁
You could always make it out of a Hollywood star….
a JOHN-HAMM Radio!
@weresmurf It hurts so bad hahahahahaha
Best explanation is best.
MATE YOU BETTER LET ME BRING MY MORSE CODE MACHINE TO YOUR HAM RADIO CONVENTION.
Claiming that GX Australia is segregating people is about as logical as claiming that a French language film festival is segregating French people.
Sure loads of French people will go, and they’ll probably enjoy it a lot and find a lot of people who speak their language, and content relevant to them, but that doesn’t stop anyone who is interested in French cinema going. Nor does it mean that French people don’t enjoy going to Sundance… And nor does it mean that Sundance is a BAD film festival.
I seriously don’t understand the logic here.
What you’re saying holds, if GX is entirely focussed on LGBTIQ games and themes.
To me it reads more like a convention about games for the LGBTIQ community instead.
Following your analogy, that would be like a film festival where the target audience is French, but really they’re just watching the latest movies that everyone enjoys.
Fair point.
Although does that mean part of your problem with it is that it’s only somewhat focused on the issues and media specific to LGBTIQ people, and also has some things that are more generally gaming related too?
I really don’t see the problem with that either, just because it has a LGBTIQ focus, doesn’t mean they can’t also cover the broad range of games people play (and I’m sure, given the nature of the event, think and talk about them as they relate to LGBTIQ issues)
I’m straight, this event doesn’t particularly interest me as something to go to, but if I was gay I can totally see how it’d be a pretty cool thing to be able to attend. Where I could meet a bunch of people who have both their sexuality and their hobby in common with me.
Where I could share experiences of how a major part of my life and who I am interacts with games, what I think about them, how I play them etc.
As an event, it’s not for me. But I can see it IS for many people, and if they want it and it’s meaningful and valuable to them, then remind me exactly why I should be telling them “No, you shouldn’t have this event. We have one big games event a year, and that should be everything to everyone”
Because that’s what a lot of these comments are basically saying “No. YOU shouldn’t have this event because I don’t see the value”
But GX Australia does have a pretty clear focus on queer, trans* and diversity-related themes and games. Take a look at the guest list, for example: 9/12 guests are queer or trans*.
This isn’t your typical gaming event – we definitely don’t need another of those! This is a gaming event specifically catering to diverse people. 🙂
The problem here is your assuming by making their target audience queer/diverse they say no “normies”. EXACTLY the same response some people of that community feel when they see the average con such as PAX, they feel like it is just for the straight white male attendees. By trying to devalue this discussion you have just given a perfect example of why we need it.
Also, are you all equally upset that this is a thing? http://www.mqff.com.au/
Are you all going to jump up and down because a film festival focusing on queer stuff is somehow ruining all the other film festivals by existing?
FUCKING THANKYOU!
I don’t know what it’s like to be a member of an ethnic minority, nor do I understand what it’s like to be a woman, or trans, or disabled, or a sexual minority of any type.
I used to think I was an open-minded person. A live-and-let-live kind of guy. A little “L” liberal humanist through and through. It’s only in the last few years that it’s really started to dawn on me how much I didn’t know, how much judgement I was still imposing upon people who weren’t like me. I used to think – for instance – that feminism was a movement without a cause, but I definitely don’t believe that anymore.
It took me a long time, but I finally learned that the best way to keep an open mind was to keep my mouth shut and observe the world around me. I’ve realised – without even really looking for evidence – that the world isn’t as unified and healed as people pretend it is, not by a long shot. And it’s not just big stuff either; the world is very slightly skewed (and often not so slightly skewed) so that straight white middle-class educated males like me can get ahead without much effort at all.
Keeping an open mind and addressing lifelong assumptions and prejudices is a hard thing to do, but I’m committed to improving myself in these regards. Now I realise that my open-mindedness is a work in progress, maybe even a lifelong endeavour. I want to understand more about harassment and marginalisation, though at the same time, I know I will never understand as clearly as someone who’s experienced these things.
In the meantime, if someone in the thick of it says they need something – like a Safe Space to gather with like minds – I’m going to take their word for it.
I don’t know for sure if GX Australia needs to exist. It’s not for me to know. But if Liam and its target audience says it needs to exist, I’m going to take their word for it. The event is for the people who want it – I don’t see why anyone else even gets to weigh in with an opinion.
I’ll prolly get downvoted into oblivion for this but for me its the hypocrisy of it all. I can’t get my head around it. It’s something i want to understand but can’t. They want to be treated equal – thats 100% legitimate. But by having a LGBTIQ version it immediately pokes holes in the equality that they seek – how can you ever see yourself as equals if you feel you need your own special version just to feel accepted? If the event focused solely on LGBTIQ issues in gaming then ok cool that makes sense.
Someone put it well earlier on
That is exactly what GX Australia is for – creating a space to talk about these issues, that wouldn’t be appropriate for a ‘normal’ gaming convention. 🙂
Ok, I know I may have gotten a little heated earlier, but I’ll do my best to explain this rationally.
It’s true that conventions such as PAX are all inclusive, that’s a given, the same as that GX is all inclusive. I know you may not see it, but the general, assumed, primary demographic for PAX is the straight white male crowd, which there’s nothing wrong with. Last I checked they are the biggest demographic of gamers, though like I said, everyone is welcome. Conversely, GX is aiming at the LGBT crowd, though is open to all also.
The thing is, due to stigma and prejudice, there are gay and trans people who may not feel comfortable around straight people or crowds for many reasons.
I mentioned before how many, if not all gay people are almost subliminally (if not straight up) taught to feel different, unwelcome, and out of place from an early age. Fear of persecution is real, and it weighs down on some people particularly heavily, so they distance themselves from others.
Most can work through it, but it’s a process. A long, gruelling process for some.
I’ve had friends who have been “gay bashed” and thus avoid unfamiliar situations.
Some people just can’t deal with the looks and the judging. I know you don’t see it, but again, people do look, and people do judge. It’s very noticeable when you’re on the receiving end. It gets tough when you’re on the receiving end your whole life.
From the comments, I gathered that many people here aren’t really aware of the more intrinsic problems at hand. They think, “Well, I have no issues with gay people, so this convention isn’t needed”, or there abouts. This misses the point entirely. You may not have an issue with gay people, but gay people are taught that the world has a problem with them.
It’s a much deeper issue than the surface problem that no one here seems to be able to look passed.
This convention is needed. Not for all gay or trans people, but if it even helps one person feel more comfortable in their own skin, then it is needed, and I don’t see the issue.
At the end of the day, it’s not about segregation. It’s about inclusion.
Those who may have issues with attending a “normal” convention have a place to go. And hey, maybe it can serve as a gateway into those same people choosing to go to “normal” conventions of they do have a good experience.
The issue isn’t black and white.
I’m just cherry picking a few things you’ve mentioned and hopefully it doesn’t take them out of context but all of these need professional help. A lot of people see mental illness as some sort of taboo but it should be addressed the same as any other disease. You wouldn’t sit at home with some sort of infection slowly eating away at your body – neither should you with anything that affects the mind and your emotional well being. The biggest thing tho is that these people have to want to get help. You literally can do nothing for them until they want it.
Look from an outsiders view that’s the crux of it. I don’t see how this really attacks the cause of the problem rather it just nurtures it. If the only time you feel truly accepted is in an event specifically catering for LGBTIQ then there is a larger issue at hand. On a personal level some sort of change needs to take place – there will always be bigots and idiots but i think the larger public is a hell of a lot more accepting than what it used to be.
Hopefully it doesn’t come off as attacking – i’m genuinely habour no ill will and am not against a LGBTIQ gaming convention – i’m just a straight guy that is trying to understand the need for it and at the same time offer an outsiders pov.
Your POV is irrelevant as a straight white male at the end of the day.
This isn’t about you, and is not up for you to decide if it is needed.
Just because you’re seemingly incapable of understanding why it is needed doesn’t mean that it is not needed.
If someone, even one person can benefit from this, isn’t that enough?
Does it really help tho? There is little point to this if all it does is coddle people instead of actually attacking core issues. It’s idiotic to say my demographics pov is irrelevant and at the same time demand that my demographics pov should change to make it more accepting to yours – at the end of the day it’s going to require both parties to come together.
It’s really hard talking to you because I am trying to be civil (now, I did admit that I got a little heated earlier, which I apologise for), and actually try and help you (and others) understand, but I don’t know if it’s failure of communication on my part or ignorance on yours / others.
Ok, basically, this convention is help.
It will help some people.
Shouldn’t that be enough?
I’m just…
I’m just tired of reading all the comments here declaring that it “isn’t needed” from straight white males, when I see how it can be beneficial, am trying to explain how it would be, and am seemingly failing at it.
Please, just take me at my word that this will help to improve some peoples lives.
Isn’t that enough to warrant it?
You want this convention? Fine, I am not going to stop you. But don’t dare make the excuse that PAX AUS wasn’t accepting enough.
PAX AUS did not target straight white males. It targeted gamers and gaming culture as a whole. We’re the majority of attendees white males? Sure. But that does not mean that demographic was specifically targeted.
“Events like PAX are doing awesome things to broaden their attendee base and make all people feel welcome, but that doesn’t change the fact that those events aren’t for me specifically. And while that’s totally fine, it would be awesome to have an event that is for me.”
He’s specifically saying that he would like an event that specifically DOES target his demographic, and there is no way you can argue that’s what PAX is. That’s not saying that PAX is bad, just that there is a gap in the events market for something more specific too.
yeah “DONT YOU DARE FEEL A DIFFERENT WAY TO ME”
How about you take a step back and realize that people are capable of feeling differently in different situations. Were you comfortable yes, was someone else with different life experiences and emotions uncomfortable? maybe. Assuming that everyone should feel the same is a little short sighted.
What are you going on about? People feel different things. OK. That wasn’t what I was saying in my post.
My post is referring to this part in Liam’s article: I have no problem with GX Australia and I hope it succeeds. What I have a problem with is using PAX AUS as some sort of an excuse for a LGBTIQ-exclusive con by saying PAX -a gaming convention built around inclusiveness of all and accommodating of all- targeted a specific demographic.
PAX Australia is awesome. I’ve been to every one, am friends with the organisers, and I think what they do is phenomenal. They have worked incredibly hard to be inclusive, and I think they’ve done an amazing job and deserve to be thanked for it.
That doesn’t mean that we don’t also need a place where the majority of the audience is queer, trans, and otherwise diverse. 🙂
PAX is awesome and I expect GX Australia will be as well for those who attend. The issue I have is the part of the article here:
There are lots of answers to this. For me, the core is this: most gaming events, including PAX, are primarily targeted at people who aren’t me.PAX is inclusive of all and the only group it targets is gamers as a whole, be it PC, console, board, card, roleplay or tabletop. To say that PAX targets a specific group based on their race, gender or sexuality is just plain wrong. And that is what I take issue with in your article.
People get judged all the time no matter who they are, I really think intolerance of all sorts is dying out and you still see intolerant people kicking and screaming but that’s because the fire they stand around is going out. I had my drink spiked at a gay club and I didnt feel safe but a lot of people helped me, I would go back and I know eventually I would feel safe and comfortable. It was scary and I blacked out completely but there was like 10 people helping me and making sure I was okay.
I overdosed on G at Stonewall 😀
but that’s my own fault :[
Came to see a bunch of straight white males telling ‘the gays’ that everything is fine and they are imagining the homophobia they encounter, leaving more than satisfied.
Guys, ’embracing diversity’ does NOT mean ‘making out with your waifu pillow’.
Don’t think that lets you tick that box.
Just letting everyone know that I’m a straight white male…. If GamerX has the lineup of goodies that I want to see/checkout then I’ll go.
…… Wow, that was so hard.
If the premise here is to establish a convention where everyone feels welcomed, regardless of gender identity, race, sexual preference, or otherwise, then a queer gaming convention would not help that cause.
It’s easy to see from the comments here already that derision and segregation are occurring, despite the idea that everyone would be welcome. Why? Because it suggests already ,despite the warm invitation to all, that this is for those who identify gender or whose sexual preference is other than heterosexual.
If the idea is to establish a gaming convention promoting an absence of prejudice, why not an Equality Gaming Convention instead?
I’m so frustrated with all the inequality and inequity we see in society as a whole – trying to fight inequality and inequity and promote acceptance and understanding through the establishment of an event such as this is an antiquated idea. Acceptance, equality and equity need to be supported and fought for by EVERYONE – it is definitely time for everyone trying to fight these battles on their own.
I came here to see straight white men ask “but what about ME?” and I wasn’t disappointed.
Straight, white and all I care at this point is where my choc chip cookies went :\ This gaming expo existing is a cool idea if it helps people feel accepted into the gaming community imho.
You’ll seriously find that’s the majority opinion (probably the liking of the cookies too), it’s always the loud negative voices that get the most coverage though.
Precisely. It’s really just a case of “this affects you how?” at this point. I don’t get it.
Also liking of cookies can confirm.
I want my cookies 🙁 My son took off to Canberra for his school excursion, I seriously actually think he’s taken them to eat on the plane LOL.
Little @$)%##*)%%#)%)*%##%… jokes on him, I just bought 4 Disney Infinity figures today I’LL GET TO PLAY WITH FIRST!!!!
Send him ransom-style photos of them with newspaper clippings spelling out “give me the cookies or they get it”
Hahahah he’ll send back photos of crumbs with ‘Do your worst…’ he knows I love these Star Wars figures lol
Can’t wait for the Straight Gaming Conventions, in which those are straight do not have to feel like they are being judged!
See you at the next PAX!
Just incidentally, what started off as an interesting comments section has now de-evolved into name calling, mud slinging, curse words thrown at each other etc. A lot of arguiing, some strawmanning (ok a lot of strawmanning) and quite frankly one of the most embarassing comments sections in a long time.
While you should be proud of your capability of forming your own opinions and standing by them…
A lot of you should be disappointed in yourselves for acting worse than three year olds in the manner of which you choose to deliver them and react to others.
To be quite frank it’s an article about acceptance and finding a decent place in society for ones self, the venom here shows that that’s probably going to be further off than they hoped for.
Have a great day!
Bravo.
That may be the case, but I also think it’s worked. My initial reaction from reading the article has changed to how I feel about it now, purely through some of the comments posted.
My initial comment on page 1 was me not understanding why one would feel the need to have a convention just for them, because as a gay gamer I DONT feel uncomfortable at gaming conventions like PAX, and I dont feel worried about what others think of me or my opinions, particularly about games or the culture.
But I think Mark said it best when he related it to gay bars:
It’s the same as any other bar, where people go and socialize about anything really, the song thats playing, that new series on Netflix, whatever. Everybody is welcome at a gay bar, but the community is mostly gay.
Flipped:
It’s the same as any other gaming convention, where people go and socialize about anything really, the new trailer thats playing, that new series on Console/PC, whatever. Everybody is welcome at a gay gaming convention, but the community is mostly gay.
If gay bars exist, where anyone really, can go and enjoy themselves, why not gay gaming conventions?
Weresmurf I understand your son is in Canberra, but do you really need to parent the entire thread in his absence? 🙂
Hahaha, so harsh XD
When everyones acting like a bunch of kids over nothing, I guess someone has to act like an adult 😛
heh… amen
Yeah, bloody embarassing after a while. I’m thankful I got a readjusted perspective AND more importantly now understand why Liam wants to setup an event like this.
I genuinely didn’t get it and now I totally do 🙂
I as a pastafarian demand that I too have a gaming conference so I can fondle other noodly appendages without being judged whilst playing ET!
May you always be touched by it’s Noodly appendage!
Ham, cookies, noodles… I’m onto your attempts to subliminally make the commentators hungry. I’d cuss you out, but I shouldn’t talk with my mouth full.
Food is love, food is life 😀
Good on you, man! I hope that goes well for you.
Hey zeitxgeist, what makes you so angry about difference and otherness? Why should people talking about their real feelings and emotions fill you with so much hate and bile?
Those questions aside, it has been great seeing Kotaku continue it’s rich tradition of nuckle-dragging teenage bigotry in the comments.
For all the comments telling the author to ‘get over it’ or ‘harden up’ or ‘its in your head’. FUCK YOU!
seriously, unless you have been a victim or know someone that has been a victim of something, to have a victim mentality to see what they struggle with internally, then shut your mouth.
i suffer from social anxiety and have been through depression as the results of my parents divorce from when i was 2 AND being sexually abused when i was 5. im now 30 and still dealing with the psychological and physiological damage from those events and the subsequent issues that those events have caused.
when you hear someone tell you ‘get over it’ or ‘its on you’ – whether it is true or not, thats not how you treat people with those issues.
thats type of shit talk that causes people to spiral downwards in whatever hell they are living in or had to go through.
I had to deal with epilepsy being thrust upon me at 14, I had no real support network, but a giant string of seizures really fucked me up psychologically for a long time. Nowhere near as bad as your situation, but I DID have many family members telling me to ‘harden up’. Being told by family I was overreacting when I said ‘I could die from a seizure because I’m not on the right meds?’ as a chain of them hit me that week… and they had to revive me twice. I was never clinically dead, or close to but I did stop breathing and my heart did go into palpatations. That did absolutely nothing for my self esteem, it infact pushed me into being a loner, being anti-social and not wanting to be around anyone for the longest time no matter who they were. It still comes out in me frequently, 23 years later, so I know what you mean by long running issues and the downward spiral, it fucking blows.
not to mention what that negative environment does physically to your brain. negativity actually becomes a physical part of your brain because of the tracks worn in as neural pathways.
yes, you can do things like cognitive behavioural therapy to help change your default thinking patterns, but without the right support networks and the ever increasing recruits to the army of keyboard warriors in this world, its almost impossible.
If it makes people happy and feel confident in themselves then why not?
General consensus seems to be that everyone wants others to feel included and safe at current conventions, but if you don’t feel that way and GX helps you relax and maybe ease yourself in to feeling confident in other aspects of your life then it’s only a positive thing in my mind.
I personally think (as a straight white dude who has gamed all his life and has not a single homophobic bone in their body) that we should all just band together as gamers. We’re already segregated enough from the douche bags that still think gaming is for kids etc.
I was at PAX and I thought it was fantastic to see the Gay and Lesbian community have a whole section devoted to it (and even had a peek inside just to check it out). I’ve also got a heap of gay/bi/whatever mates and have been dragged to gay events around Adelaide.
I guess the way I’m looking at it is.. Why do we need a gay gaming event… Are you going there to pick up? Or are you going there to share the experience of gaming with fellow gamers. I sure as f*** didn’t go to PAX to try and score some tail nor was I walking around checking out “gaming booth babes” (if anything the ones there just irked me because you could tell most were models paid to be there).
But like someone else said, I’m also not against more gaming conventions… So if this led to more I’d be all for it. I can see both sides of the arguement I guess… But like people have said before me, can’t we all just get along?
We don’t need a queer gaming convention — nobody needs a gaming convention. We want one that has panels discussing issues pertinent to us, and we feel the industry and gamers broadly could benefit from those discussions occurring at a time and place where they don’t compete for attention with other matters. And that’s okay.
I don’t often have a chance to comment any more on Kotaku but i still read daily. When i read this article and it’s attached comments o couldn’t help but put in my 2 cents…
The aforementioned event is a gaming convention! Personally i am more than happy that there will be another convention in town! I don’t care who runs it or who it’s aimed at! It could be aimed at purple pandas for all i care! That said, many people are of varying opinions here and i respect everyone’s right to have one. Personally, I’m a straight guy, with no gay friends, but i sure as hell am going to attend and support this event. My girlfriend and i will be there, playing games and having a great time! Nobody is ostracizing straight people from the event, so go along with an open mind and make some friends, i know i will.
Splicer out 🙂
Man, those purple pandas be gettin’ all the best conventions. No love for Red or Blue pandas!!
Let’s have a straight only gaming convention then.
how would the gays like that?
GX isn’t just for queer and diverse people! It’s just targeted that way. Just like everyone is welcome at PAX, you’re welcome at GX. 🙂
Did you happen to go to a Reclaim Australia rally this weekend?
tumblr’s that way >>>>
I don’t get it?
Pro tip: Don’t use the term “the gays”.
that’s gay.
That would upset the gay community. A gay convention would be open to straight people, as its intention is to celebrate not to discriminate.
I majorly disagree.
I worry about these “queer” conventions, as they do not address the overlying issue… And that is gay acceptance within the main stream community.
YOU should be able to go to the EB Games Expo and hold hands with your same-sex partner. You should be able to put your arm around them.
Just like I can with my opposite sex partner.
I think creating a queer convention will just do more to encourage discrimination. We need to fight to get the mainstream community to accept and tolerate people with a different sexuality to their own.
For the record though… I don’t think anyone should be smooching in public, same sex or opposite sex 😛
So good of you to tell lgbt people how to live their lives, and how to properly fight discrimination! As a straight dude, you definitely know more about their experiences than they do. Also, did you have any extra insights on how they should conduct themselves in public? Perhaps a dress code or the like.
So good of you to tell others how to do the same. Attack the guy saying you should be equal and feel equal…
No. I’m not saying we should all be free and equal. Lgbt people have been in a hugely unequal societal position for centuries. Straight white men have not. We do not get to tell lgbt people about how they should experience their lives. Equality isn’t a fucking binary, or some zero-sum bullshit game. Equality means lgbt people being free to have a games convention, and you sucking it up for the first time in your sad, bigoted life.
Sad? I’m not the one full of self hate…. Bigoted? Only on Kotaku would saying “Hey you don’t need to be different, I happily accept you into our community, lets stand side by side at a gaming convention” would be seen as bigoted.
You idiot.
Just for the record people who do PDA’s with their significant others in public suck. Hard.
But only because I’ve been single a while now and miss doing that with a gf 😛 lol
I heard about this at a panel Liam was on at PAX and wasn’t planning on pledging because I was unconvinced it would get funded, but now that I’ve read through the comments here I changed my mind and pledged anyway.
My partner and I will both be in attendance, should the event go ahead.
You’re awesome, Liam. Keep on keeping on. 🙂
I really wish there wasnt a need for this, i mean sexual preference is, well who honestly cares?
i mean anyone homosexual certainly doesnt affect anyone else, theyre generally nicer people too.
i think the fact we need this for people of those preference to feel ‘welcome’ is disgusting. shame on you human race
IMHO a gay convention isn’t really the answer to any of your childhood problems or your adult views. You want to be ultimately excepted so your segregating yourself. Seems extremely counter-intuitive and the opposite of what your goals should be? Can I also mention as a straight male your levelling the same disposition of lack-of-acceptance on to me that you yourself dislike by holding a ‘gay / trans focused’ event? These are my feelings anyway.
WTF is wrong with you people? Liam, I appreciate what you are trying to do here, the creation of safe spaces for minorities is super important! Please don’t let these fools dampen your spirits! As a lesbian, having somewhere to chill where I know I’m not the outsider is like a dream come true. Thanks so much again Liam, I will try to support the Kickstarter. Also, noticing a lot of straight cis people who’ve clearly never heard of systematic oppression trying to assert their opinion and show disapproval of something which doesn’t affect them (a bit like same-sex marriage).
Straight, white dudes. We’re the fucking worst. No sarcasm at all.
The reason why so many gamers are upset is, by creating this convention for minorities and using loaded terms like “safe space”, you’re implying gamers are so intolerant and dangerous that it requires a need for this separate convention.
Can you see why gamers would be so upset at this? Every gamer I met at PAX was tolerant and friendly, and not once did my sexuality ever become an issue. They’ve worked so hard to prove what is said about them and their tolerance is total bollocks. Yet gamers are still being vilified after many years of vilification for various other unjustified reasons.
Why is there a need for this convention? If the idea is to be inclusive, then we want to minimise our differences, not emphasise them. You may insist to the moon and back that straight gamers are welcome at GX, that doesn’t stop the idea of this convention from being incredibly tone-deaf.
I think it is extremely unwise to rip away the veils and introduce identity politics to the hobby where your identity mattered the least of all.
Did you happen to miss GamerGate? What part of that made you feel like “gamers” were an inclusive lot?
That’s a poor argument, Gamergaters are a vocal minority of gamers, just like ISIS is a vocal minority of muslims. Don’t judge the majority by the actions of a few.
Well I’m all for it and a bunch of the comments here show just why it’s a great idea. And now I’m thinking of going.
As an American pastor once said there is more power in unity than division.
Personally, I have mixed feelings. Both sides of the argument have valid points and concerns. Ultimately though, I do like the idea of a convention celebrating LGBT people and games, In theory at least.
That said, I find most of Liam’s reasoning in the article… unconvincing. Most of the article is his life story and why HE wants a gaymer convention. As touching as it is, it’s ultimately anecdotal and specific to him. I’m also deeply uncomfortable with the line he draws to divide himself and gamers ‘of the heterosexual bent’. It’s cynical and does a disservice to all gamers as well as PAX which puts a large amount of effort into being for all gamers.
Additionally I feel only focusing on LGBT issues and discrimination is unnecessarily narrow, especially since sexism and racism in games are still big issues and worthy of discussion. I don’t see why the focus shouldn’t be equality in general.
Firstly, love the fact you guys are trying to get another gaming convention off the ground and i’ll be there for sure.
I was initially taken aback by the title of the article “Why Australia Needs A Queer Gaming Convention”. . Singling out Australians as homophobic and needing of some education? As a seasoned world traveler, i was under the impression that us aussies are one of – if not the most – open minded and inclusive nation on the planet.
Reminds me somewhat of the Adam Goodes saga from earlier in the year.. Numerous football goers boo’d ol’ Adam for numerous reasons weather that be racism / dislike for his untoward playing tactics or whatever every individuals reason was. Adam decided the booing was racially motivated and pretty soon everyone who boo’d the man was tarnished with the racist brush. No matter how loudly people begged to differ.
Bringing this back to our gaming convention discussion, Those claiming the organisers are segregating the LGBTI from the straight are the Adam Goodes’ in this argument. No matter how loudly others beg to differ.. That overriding sentiment will stick.
Full support. $50 pledge.
Good luck with the next 3 days.
All these people saying the LGBT community has no issues and no need for a space like this have no idea what they’re talking about. Yes, activism is required for change, but shelter is required for sanity.
When I was with my ex-girlfriend, while I was not afraid of being bashed, it was impossible to hold hands, kiss, or do anything with her in public without being leered at, cat called, and otherwise harassed. It got old very fast. It doesn’t help that I’m a very physically affectionate individual and I generally love holding hands and cuddling and all that.
People who say that these problems don’t exist need to open their eyes. Just because you’ve never personally seen it in your every day lives, doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen constantly and consistently to the people affected.
You know what we don’t need? This shit.
Gaming is not gender biased. Some games might be pandered more to a certain group of people (like Call of Duty is focused toward 12 year old boys) as that’s how marketing works, but that does not mean it is gender biased.
A “Queer Gaming Con” would just create a bigger rift in the already torn gaming community.
Leave Gender, Race and Sexual Orientation out of gaming (events at least) and just go back to the fun…
Here’s some equality for y’all – everyone here was equally trolled with this awesome piece of Kotaku clickbait. Bravo!
I don’t see how going from “heterosexual couples kissing in public, in the way” to “queer couple kissing in public, in the way” is any better to be honest.
Honestly the whole HASSLE kinda makes me keen to move into the Robot age, no complications, simple :-). I intend to have no kids so it’s the best of both worlds, (yes I’m against breeding!).
There are way too many useless points being made in the comment section.
Bottom line, there is a group of people within the gaming community who would want to be apart of something where they aren’t going to feel discriminated. It’s really not a big ask.
You really don’t know what real discrimination feels like, it’s not just an insult or a slap on the wrists. It’s a gut feeling, that can drag you down and make you feel usless. People should have a real think about the matter before they open their mouths, especially considering most of the negative comments on here are coming from middle classed white kids, who have never had to/nor will ever, experience persecution.
@markserrels i think gaymers are misinterpreting who the real minority really are, cause its not the gaymers. You say we non-gaymers would be welcome to GX? Awesome, I’d love to! But lets not be mistaken here, ALL GAYMERS ARE WELCOME TO PAX! I didnt go in with any intention of judging gaymers, i went there to immerse myself in gaming culture with gamers and gaymers alike, who share the same passion for our hobby as we do. And so did 99% of us that attended.
The real minority mark, are the people that have an issue with gaymers. THEY are the 1%. So if GX, is about bringing a smaller community together, for them to meet other gaymers and alike, then im all for it, and is support you guys 100%.
and yeah i agree, gaymers lead hard lives. I see their point of view. but you cant honestly tell me that any gaymer has been made to feel that they wouldnt feel at home at pax. and the 1% minority doesnt count, because at the end of the day, that same 1% is going to hate one person for having long hair, another for wearing thongs, and another for having braces.
I am of mixed minds.
Why do we need to seperate the groups even further? For so long the LBGT community has fought to be a part of everything and to be treated equally. Once upon a time, the queer a d the different were treated poorly. But nowadays, I have met so many straight people that were brought up and taught to believe that the gays (and the rest) were of a bad cloth and to be avoided at all cost have at last gotten to know the people they so lonf avoided and changed their minds – the gays are actually incredible people and they can’t believe they were tricked into thinking different. It’s a vastly changing world. Our children will grow to see all in equal light. But why do we continue to seperate ourselves? It seems so hypocritical, we who have so long demanded to be allow to walk in the same light as others now in turn do the exact same thing the straight once did to us. The gays now turn their backs on the straight and exclude them just as they did once. The LBGT community and label themselves that screams I am different and you’ll never understand me and yet demand equality. No. No more labels, no more names. You are human as am I, our hearts beat the same. We don’t have to like each other. Move on. It isn’t a perfect world. There will always be those who scorn. Not just in the gay community, but in all aspects of life. Work. School. Family. Races. Countries. We accept it is a not a perfect world, but don’t let it give us a label and push us further from the community!
Perhaps if the article had been written as such – the discussion of a gaming convention aimed for the queer because, hey, it would be fun, and all (including straight, bi, the list goes on) are welcome to check it out, I might have seen it in more of a positive light. Entertainment is usually targeted at an audience (e.g 12 year olds, women), and the queer is certainly a target audience! Others are welcome to inspect to see if it appeals to them too. It’s a great idea! While it may be open to everyone, you have ever so subtly put down the straight community, and thus seperated yourselves from them. You are here and they are there.
I do not say I am right. Nor am I wrong. This is just my view, and I adore a educational debate. If anyone would like to give me more of an insight, please enlighten me! While I have my opinions, I am open to learning and upon new facts, may change my mind. Or I may change yours. It is how a good healthy debate should go. 🙂
I should also point out that I have been in a same sex relationship for 8 years, should anyone accuse me of being straight given my opinion above.
Point & Clickbait says it all really. I’m a white, straight, religious male, and I think it’s a good idea. When so many gamers love to use homophobic slurs, and far too many people feel they have to hide who they are so they don’t get attacked for it, it is a good idea to have a gaming convention where people can be comfortable with who they are, whether they are straight or gay. I think the only ones who are against it might not be totally comfortable with who they are.